Only The NDP And Green Party Oppose Bush & Cheney War On Drugs

[Dutchman9]

http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/5171.html

Only the NDP voted against it.

This isn't just clamping down on selling crystal meth to kids, it's harsh Republican-style mandatory minimums for ANY pot production/consumption/possession/distribution.

The right-wing Liberals and Ultra-Right-Wing CONS have brought Bushian Fascism to Canada. Pot is non-lethal and less addictive than other drugs. Alcohol, tobacco and pharmaceuticals kill 1000's of people every year, and induce severe withdrawal symptoms, yet THEY are the drugs the hypocritical FASCIST Libs & Cons want to be legal.

If you are a Liberal or Conservative pot user, you should switch to the NDP or Greens. If you are an NDP or Green supporter, please pass the information around on other forums to show Canadians what right-wing governance has done.

[Wild Bill]

http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/5171.html

Only the NDP voted against it.

This isn't just clamping down on selling crystal meth to kids, it's harsh Republican-style mandatory minimums for ANY pot production/consumption/possession/distribution.

The right-wing Liberals and Ultra-Right-Wing CONS have brought Bushian Fascism to Canada. Pot is non-lethal and less addictive than other drugs. Alcohol, tobacco and pharmaceuticals kill 1000's of people every year, and induce severe withdrawal symptoms, yet THEY are the drugs the hypocritical FASCIST Libs & Cons want to be legal.

If you are a Liberal or Conservative pot user, you should switch to the NDP or Greens. If you are an NDP or Green supporter, please pass the information around on other forums to show Canadians what right-wing governance has done.

I can't switch! In exchange for a conflict on this one issue you're asking me to choose other parties where I conflict with them on EVERYTHING BUT this issue!

Bad choice!

[eyeball]

I can't switch! In exchange for a conflict on this one issue you're asking me to choose other parties where I conflict with them on EVERYTHING BUT this issue!

Bad choice!

No, we're simply asking right-wingers to stand by one their most oft-stated cherished principles; keeping the government off the people's backs.

Once the choice is made to give the government the inch it wants on this issue, how long will it be until the government takes a foot on many others? Bad choice indeed.

When the Nazis came for the communists,

I remained silent;

I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,

I remained silent;

I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,

I did not speak out;

I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,

I remained silent;

I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,

there was no one left to speak out.

[Dutchman9]

http://c-26.oldsock.com/

They call Vancouver Vansterdam no more. We thought Canada was tolerant, but The Liberals and Conservatives teamed up to put 1000's of Canadian pot users in jail.

I guess they want Canada to be the 51st state. Only the NDP, BQ and Green Party are voicing opposition to the USA style clampdown on Cannabis.

[segnosaur]

No, we're simply asking right-wingers to stand by one their most oft-stated cherished principles; keeping the government off the people's backs.

No, we're simply asking right-wingers to stand by one their most oft-stated cherished principles; keeping the government off the people's backs.

But here's the problem... ALL parties (except for perhaps the Libertarian party) want to get involved with people's lives in some way.

Some 'right wingers' may be against having the government poke its nose in our business with respect to drug use, but they're even more opposed to having the government poke its nose into our finances, our property rights, etc.

For some people, its simply the lesser of 2 evils.

[Wild Bill]

No, we're simply asking right-wingers to stand by one their most oft-stated cherished principles; keeping the government off the people's backs.

Once the choice is made to give the government the inch it wants on this issue, how long will it be until the government takes a foot on many others? Bad choice indeed.

That may be what you think you're asking but that would not be the result. I'll spell it out for you, slowly!

We all vote NDP.

They liberalize drugs.

They blow every time of our tax dollars in stupid programs run by people with big hearts but no brains.

Every business leaves the country, taking all our jobs.

We all have no money left, even for drugs.

If you think that your one pet issue is the only thing that would be affected then you deserve whatever happens to you every day of your life!

Edited May 5, 2008 by Wild Bill

[sharkman]

No, we're simply asking right-wingers to stand by one their most oft-stated cherished principles; keeping the government off the people's backs.

Once the choice is made to give the government the inch it wants on this issue, how long will it be until the government takes a foot on many others? Bad choice indeed.

What's going on here is the government is keeping the drugs off the people's backs. Nice to know the drug fiends who peddle addiction and brain wasting poison are finding it more difficult to do business.

Aside from the whining coming from the hard lefties, people are okay with this move.

[Wilber]

http://c-26.oldsock.com/

They call Vancouver Vansterdam no more. We thought Canada was tolerant, but The Liberals and Conservatives teamed up to put 1000's of Canadian pot users in jail.

I guess they want Canada to be the 51st state. Only the NDP, BQ and Green Party are voicing opposition to the USA style clampdown on Cannabis.

1000's of Canadian pot users in jail, that's a joke. They don't even put pot sellers in jail.

[oreodontist]

1000's of pot users in jail?

I doubt if the poster is a liar so they must just be stupid.... either naturally stupid or doped up on something 'stupid'.

[jbg]

http://c-26.oldsock.com/

They call Vancouver Vansterdam no more. We thought Canada was tolerant, but The Liberals and Conservatives teamed up to put 1000's of Canadian pot users in jail.

I guess they want Canada to be the 51st state. Only the NDP, BQ and Green Party are voicing opposition to the USA style clampdown on Cannabis.

I'm not quite sure if you think there should be or should not be a clampdown on cannabis. In the US, in fact, the policy seems to be one more of benign neglect. Other drugs, such as cocaine and heroin draw enforcement attention. Not cannabis, which has, in fact, been decriminalized in many states.

Edited May 5, 2008 by jbg

[eyeball]

What's going on here is the government is keeping the drugs off the people's backs.

While selling them booze instead?

Nice to know the drug fiends who peddle addiction and brain wasting poison are finding it more difficult to do business.

Business seems to be booming at our liquor store. Go figure.

Aside from the whining coming from the hard lefties, people are okay with this move.

Is there anyone old enough to remember who was whining the hardest when booze was prohibited? Did they even have lefties in those days?

[Dutchman9]

That may be what you think you're asking but that would not be the result. I'll spell it out for you, slowly!

We all vote NDP.

They liberalize drugs.

They blow every time of our tax dollars in stupid programs run by people with big hearts but no brains.

Every business leaves the country, taking all our jobs.

We all have no money left, even for drugs.

If you think that your one pet issue is the only thing that would be affected then you deserve whatever happens to you every day of your life!

1) The federal NDP has never been given a chance to govern.

2) The most recent example of the NDP, in Saskatchewan, ran balanced budgets and did NOT destroy the economy.

3) Examples in Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark prove that the center-left, NON-extreme social democrats can increase economic competitiveness, and create the best standard of living on earth.

The NDP used to be old school socialist, but they are no longer. They are progressive semi-socialists who understand how economies work, as they have adopted the policies found in Scandinavia.

[Dutchman9]

No, we're simply asking right-wingers to stand by one their most oft-stated cherished principles; keeping the government off the people's backs.

But here's the problem... ALL parties (except for perhaps the Libertarian party) want to get involved with people's lives in some way.

Some 'right wingers' may be against having the government poke its nose in our business with respect to drug use, but they're even more opposed to having the government poke its nose into our finances, our property rights, etc.

For some people, its simply the lesser of 2 evils.

There are 2 types of right-wingers, Libertarians and Authoritarians. Libertarians believe that adults have the right to consume and produce non-lethal, relatively non-addictive cannabis.

Even though the NDP and Green Party are not capitalist, or right-wing, they do have a sort of Libertarian aspect to their social policies : leave people's behaviour alone, if they are doing such consentual acts privately and are not harming others.

The Liberals and Conservatives are all for rounding up pot smokers, producers and distributors and mass incarcerating them. As with the prohibition of alcohol, this only exacerbates the (minor) problems associated with cannabis and makes them severe, and GREATLY fuels organized crime takeover of the industry as it is driven underground.

What would happen if we thought Coffee was a social problem and we criminalized it ? It does cause 100X more fatalities per year than Cannabis (due to inducement of cardiac irregularities in those who are predisposed or have preexisting conditions) and it does induce more severe withdrawal symptoms. If we criminalized it, the overall use would likely not decrease, but it would greatly fuel organized crime CONTROL of the banished underground industry. If we were to ban alcohol and tobacco, the same effect would occur. Tobacco smoking is WAY down in Canada recently, due to education. It wasn't necessary to mass-incarcerate the industry and tobacco users. Fines, regulations, licensing and education worked. In the Netherlands, a LOWER percentage of their population uses Cannabis than in the States (with their severe prohibition).

It's time for the right, center, and left to link together in this *one* issue of social policy and not promote or pursue harsh criminalization for such a *relatively innocuous* substance, as long as it's only for private adult use, away from the operation of vehicles and machinery.

Edited May 6, 2008 by Dutchman9

[Dutchman9]

What's going on here is the government is keeping the drugs off the people's backs. Nice to know the drug fiends who peddle addiction and brain wasting poison are finding it more difficult to do business.

Aside from the whining coming from the hard lefties, people are okay with this move.

That's blatantly hypocritical, inaccurate and ignorant of you.

Alcohol causes 100,000+ fatalities per year, and some of the most severe withdrawal symptoms in the form of delerium tremens. It is 1000's of times more lethal and addictive than Cannabis. But yet, I would not promote legislation which puts a responsible adult in jail for drinking in moderation, or even for producing alcohol. And Google "alcoholism brain damage", you might learn something.

Tobacco and pharmaceuticals ? JUST AS BAD as alcohol, and 1000X more lethal and addictive than Cannabis. Yet, we all know that mass incarceration of alcohol users, tobacco users and BigPharma pill poppers would be INSANE.

Yet, some of us are willing to banish and criminalize a LESS harmful drug, and pursue the hypocritical and socially destructive American war on drugs. The US has the highest incarceration rate on earth, many/most imprisoned due to NON-violent CONSENTUAL behaviour criminalized by puritanical, authoritarion, behavioural Fascists.

Based on the degree of harm the substances cause (indicated by the scientifically documented drug induced fatalities and potential for addiction), for every year you want to put a pot user/producer/distributor in jail, the respective involvement in alcohol, tobacco or pharmaceuticals should carry a prison sentence 1000X more severe.

[Dutchman9]

1000's of Canadian pot users in jail, that's a joke. They don't even put pot sellers in jail.

That's in the PREVIOUS paradigm. In the new Neo-Con clampdown, under bill C-26, 1000's of people will be unjustly incarcerated, while dictatorial hypocrits go home and pursue a much more lethal and addictive drug use pattern with hard liquor, packs of tobacco, and pharmaceutical cocktails.

To be so dismissive of the hardline clampdown which is being advanced, is to deny reality.

[Dutchman9]

1000's of pot users in jail?

I doubt if the poster is a liar so they must just be stupid.... either naturally stupid or doped up on something 'stupid'.

Actually, you are utterly retarded and likely pumped full of toxic BigPharma poisons, tobacco and alcohol : a combination which is literally 100,000 times more lethal and addictive than Cannabis.

Stupid, hypocritical, behavioural Fascists.

[Dutchman9]

I'm not quite sure if you think there should be or should not be a clampdown on cannabis. In the US, in fact, the policy seems to be one more of benign neglect. Other drugs, such as cocaine and heroin draw enforcement attention. Not cannabis, which has, in fact, been decriminalized in many states.

The overwhelming majority of States have NOT decriminalized cannabis. The ones which have or are close to doing so (Alaska, Colorado, California), still have harshly draconian and brutally authoritarian federal DEA directives putting cannabis users/producers/consumers in prison for years, if not decades, basically ignoring state law with impunity.

Why ? The hypocritical, right-wing, religious, Falwellian Neo-Cons enjoy persecution, incarceration, torture and unjustified hyper-criminalization of a relatively innocuous substance.

[Dutchman9]

While selling them booze instead?

Business seems to be booming at our liquor store. Go figure.

Is there anyone old enough to remember who was whining the hardest when booze was prohibited? Did they even have lefties in those days?

Apparently, a bunch of brain-dead, chain-smoking, alcoholic, pill-popping Fascists don't realize that THEIR drugs of choice are 100,000X more lethal and addictive than Cannabis.

[Dutchman9]

Prohibition doesn't work. It just criminalizes and incarcerates non-violent consenting adults, and enables and empowers organized crime by handing them the particular industry on a silver underground platter.

Harper & Co. close their eyes to this fact.

[Wild Bill]

Prohibition doesn't work. It just criminalizes and incarcerates non-violent consenting adults, and enables and empowers organized crime by handing them the particular industry on a silver underground platter.

Harper & Co. close their eyes to this fact.

On this one I'd agree. Prohibition only keeps the illegal profits skyhigh. This is so inherently obvious that you have to question the sincerity of those who still support it. Or their intelligence. Or maybe they are just so naive they think that the war on drugs actually accomplishes more than a piss in the wind. Plays well at election time to the Lawrence Welk set, I guess.

Meanwhile, it's historical fact that during Prohibition booze lords like Capone paid big bribes to politicians to keep Prohibition from being repealed, in order to protect their incomes. This is such a logical thing to happen in such a situation that I've come to get very suspicious of what may be happening with our politicians today!

It's distressing but given the absurdity and futility of their Prohibition tactics the idea that they are being bribed fits just a bit too easily...

[Wild Bill]

1) The federal NDP has never been given a chance to govern.

2) The most recent example of the NDP, in Saskatchewan, ran balanced budgets and did NOT destroy the economy.

3) Examples in Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark prove that the center-left, NON-extreme social democrats can increase economic competitiveness, and create the best standard of living on earth.

The NDP used to be old school socialist, but they are no longer. They are progressive semi-socialists who understand how economies work, as they have adopted the policies found in Scandinavia.

After a lifetime of listening to NDP loopiness and having survived Bob Rae I should just change my mind and vote for them, because YOU tell me they're now ok?

Sorry. I don't want any swamp land in Florida either. I've been stung so many times by politicians over the years that I've been turned into a Missourian - I won't believe them until they SHOW me!

[Dutchman9]

After a lifetime of listening to NDP loopiness and having survived Bob Rae I should just change my mind and vote for them, because YOU tell me they're now ok?

Sorry. I don't want any swamp land in Florida either. I've been stung so many times by politicians over the years that I've been turned into a Missourian - I won't believe them until they SHOW me!

The evidence is there if you study the *recent* center-left Sask. NDP reign and the recent and current center-left Scandinavian examples, but you must open your eyes first. My eyes are certainly open to the fact that old school pure socialism (and Communism) is stupid, destructive and impractical in theory and in practice. That's also a realization the Finnish social democrats took and propelled their country to recently outperform the US in economic competitiveness ratings, several years running.

Also, consider the Greens. What about having more than 3 parties in parliament ?

We both know that the Libs and Cons will get TONS of votes in the next election. I'm merely suggesting the slightly increased empowerment of the 2 marginalized underdog parties, so as to counteract a 2-party monopoly.

[Dutchman9]

On this one I'd agree. Prohibition only keeps the illegal profits skyhigh. This is so inherently obvious that you have to question the sincerity of those who still support it. Or their intelligence. Or maybe they are just so naive they think that the war on drugs actually accomplishes more than a piss in the wind. Plays well at election time to the Lawrence Welk set, I guess.

Meanwhile, it's historical fact that during Prohibition booze lords like Capone paid big bribes to politicians to keep Prohibition from being repealed, in order to protect their incomes. This is such a logical thing to happen in such a situation that I've come to get very suspicious of what may be happening with our politicians today!

It's distressing but given the absurdity and futility of their Prohibition tactics the idea that they are being bribed fits just a bit too easily...

You may be to the right of me politically, but you certainly sound like a principled, pragmatic progressive on this issue.

[Wild Bill]

You may be to the right of me politically, but you certainly sound like a principled, pragmatic progressive on this issue.

Ah, because I agreed with you?

Actually, once you get to know me you'll find that I'm not really a conservative but more a classic liberal. Since the Liberal party of today has little or nothing in common with the dictionary definition of liberalism I can't support them. I could vote Libertarian but that would be a totally ineffective waste of time. So I vote Tory. Not a close match for me but better than the big government, statist Liberals.

I can't vote for the left 'cuz I've got too much of a Utilitarian streak. I'm a techie by trade and a strong cause and effect type of guy. I find the NDP to be long on wishes and short on practical ideas.

Like Jack Layton's suggestion to talk with the Taliban! At the time he made it, it was kinda hard to talk with someone who's shooting at you! I would have expected him to have known this from the start and dealt with it in his initial proposal. He seemed blissfully unaware!

To me they seem worse than Rush Limbaugh in crying for "the way things OUGHT to be!". Here in Ontario the provincial party actually stated a year or two ago that their definition of rich was anyone making over $65k a year! Maybe in Canmore that's a living wage but not in most parts of Ontario.

I'm willing to grant your point that some provincial NDP governments are more practical. However, I've never seen a federal NDP government so I've never been "shown", as it were. Meanwhile, while Taliban Jack seems like a nice guy when I listen to his words to be frank he strikes me as someone who couldn't put a new plug on a lamp! I've always had more faith in engineers to fix practical problems and Jack strikes me as the quintessential "artsie". Someone who might advise you on the most eco-friendly colour for a new bridge but the LAST person you'd trust to design a cost-effective one that you would cross in confidence.

Anyhow, that's just me. I have no idea if I'm part of a large enough demographic to matter to the politicians. I DO know that the whole idea of Prohibition is a mere photo-op at best and a hellacious waste of taxmoney at worst! That's why I made my comment. I'm objective enough to know that while I have to vote for the Tories 'cuz to me they smell the least, on some issues they're either playing to their choir or just too "Ned Flanders" to have a practical grasp on the situation.

"Ned" might play to the Christian conservatives but he'll cost them dearly here in Ontario. Big city folks demand real results for their taxes.

Edited May 6, 2008 by Wild Bill

[jbg]

2) The most recent example of the NDP, in Saskatchewan, ran balanced budgets and did NOT destroy the economy.

Gary Doer in Manitoba isn't NDP? I guess as an American I don't understand these things.

Also, Bob Rae in ON and Glen Clark in BC, from what I hear, had less than stellar economic records.