Tories Deny Plans to De-fang

[myata]

Sure, if only one could get all the independent voices muzzled (like Nuclear energy watchdog; Elections Canada), there'll be no limit to cleaneliness, and transparency of this government. It'll fly right into the sky.

And now, that they nearly perfected the subtle art of policy changes, it's all within their grasp. Too bad someone called it this time around, but surely there's always next.

[Michael Bluth]

Oh come on Micheal, Harper wants to be in complete control of everyone, may the lord have mercy on us and yes I don't have any respect for him and your statement just validated what I said.

So that justifies calling him a Nazi? Unless there is an alternative allusion for hiel (spelling incorrect as in original).

What did I say that justified comparing the CPC to the most despised political party in world history? Are you trying to say part of the Conservative's hidden agenda is the slaughter of millions of innocent people?

[Vancouver King]

So that justifies calling him a Nazi? Unless there is an alternative allusion for hiel (spelling incorrect as in original).

What did I say that justified comparing the CPC to the most despised political party in world history? Are you trying to say part of the Conservative's hidden agenda is the slaughter of millions of innocent people?

Harper a Nazi? At best that's an exaggeration in poor taste. That he now subscribes to the Red China/Zimbabwe model of govt elections and communications to the masses is much closer to the truth.

And why not? We presently endure the spectacle of an "independent" govt agency like Stats Can telling us that prices have risen an insignificant 1.7% when every Canadian buying gasoline, food or a home knows it is laughable nonsense. Harper merely proposes to go the next step - adjust every disconcerting fact by controlling all govt info. Seems to work in Beijing.

Ah yes, reality according to Chairman Harper - why worry, be happy.

[Michael Bluth]

And why not? We presently endure the spectacle of an "independent" govt agency like Stats Can telling us that prices have risen an insignificant 1.7% when every Canadian buying gasoline, food or a home knows it is laughable nonsense. Harper merely proposes to go the next step - adjust every disconcerting fact by controlling all govt info. Seems to work in Beijing.

Ah yes, reality according to Chairman Harper - why worry, be happy.

So Stats Can is publishing false figures for inflation because of orders from Stephen Harper?

Wow, if you really believe that then I guess Sheila Fraser voiced her concerns far too late in the game.

Out of interest's sake, when did the PMO start forcing Stats Can to falsify publicly issued reports?

[Argus]

Yep the pro Harper tribe is deny, deny, deny, just like the ladies who were told if they complained any more about the sewage running through their basement, the reeve offered to condemn their house, of course I was lying about that wasn't I.

Have your Hiel salute ready people we are sure headed that way

There is nothing Harper has done in the way of trying to control government information and trying to control government agency heads, MPs and cabinet ministers which was not done by earlier governments.

You're simply too wrapped up in your ideological venom of anything conservative to do more than spew paranoid nonsense.

[Topaz]

Seems like Harper shutting down everything. He's also shut down the information registry that lawyers, journalist and the ordinary citizens uses too! It called the CAIRS or Co-ordination of Access to information Requests System and its a database to millions of pages of once-secret documents, which we can get through the freedom-of-information requests. Tories say they are getting rid of it because consultations showed it was not valued by government departments. I, personally think they don't want any more information about the war getting out since Canada and the US are together in this war and I think Bush and Harper have been having talks about how to keep secrets from the public again!!!

[nothinarian]

There is nothing Harper has done in the way of trying to control government information and trying to control government agency heads, MPs and cabinet ministers which was not done by earlier governments.

Pretty broad statement so which earlier governments are you referring to?

My take would be Chretien via Chief of Staff Jean Pelletier and less so in later years via Percy Downe, but definitely not Martin through Tim Murphy. That was an undisciplined lot on an anti-Chretien crusade probably to their own detriment.

Any other notables?

[jdobbin]

There is nothing Harper has done in the way of trying to control government information and trying to control government agency heads, MPs and cabinet ministers which was not done by earlier governments.

The Liberals never did this:

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/420873

The federal Conservatives have quietly killed a giant information registry that was used by lawyers, academics, journalists and ordinary citizens to hold government accountable.

The registry, created in 1989, is an electronic list of every request filed to all federal departments and agencies under the Access to Information Act.

Known as CAIRS, for Co-ordination of Access to Information Requests System, the database allowed ordinary citizens to identify millions of pages of once-secret documents that became public through individual freedom-of-information requests over many years.

But in a notice last week to civil servants on the Treasury Board website, officials posted an innocuous obituary: effective April 1, 2008, "the requirement to update CAIRS is no longer in effect."

A spokesman for Treasury Board confirmed Friday that the system is being killed because "extensive" consultations showed it was not valued by government departments.

The consultations concluded "the valuable resources currently being used to maintain CAIRS would be better used in the collection and analysis of improved statistical reporting," said Robert Makichuk.

Public Works, which has operated the database, spent $166,000 improving it in 2001. As recently as 2003 federal officials had been working on a publicly accessible, online version.

Monthly paper lists have also been made available since the 1990s for public consultation at a central federal office in Ottawa.

This is an open government that tries to shut down an information registry? How much money was saved here? Not much in the grand scheme of things.

[Argus]

And now the Tories do the same thing and it is okay?

I didn't say it was okay. I wish they would be more open and less distrustful. I think their instincts, or at least, the instincts of a lot of them, are to be more open. However, they are in a precarious minority, so I cut them some slack, and most of the media is against them so I cut them a little more slack.

There is no reason to do the same for rock solid Liberal majority governments. They could have been more open and less controlling with no danger to their electoral fortunes, no fears about the occasional bit of bad news making a fuss in the media. Their instincts were to clamp down hard even so. And I have seen no indication those instincts have changed.

You can whine about the Tories being like this, but there isn't a shred of evidence a Liberal government would be any improvement. Which kinda makes your complaints pretty hypocritical, especially given you were eager to be a member of the last Liberal government - the one notorious for secrecy and whose PM was notorious for being a controlling micromanager.

[Argus]

Seems like Harper shutting down everything. He's also shut down the information registry that lawyers, journalist and the ordinary citizens uses too! It called the CAIRS or Co-ordination of Access to information Requests System and its a database to millions of pages of once-secret documents, which we can get through the freedom-of-information requests. Tories say they are getting rid of it because consultations showed it was not valued by government departments. I, personally think they don't want any more information about the war getting out since Canada and the US are together in this war and I think Bush and Harper have been having talks about how to keep secrets from the public again!!!

The access to information act needs reform, as do the vehicles and processes in use. There is one immigratoin lawyer who has used ATIP to demand all emails at CRA for the last year. Do you have any idea how many emails that is? He wants everything, right up to the emails exchanged by workers planning their lunches and coffee breaks. This is not the first time this guy has done this, as he cost Immigration Canada many hundreds of thousands for similar requests.

[Argus]

The Liberals never did this:

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/420873

This is an open government that tries to shut down an information registry? How much money was saved here? Not much in the grand scheme of things.

Who used it and for what purpose? I'm guessing it was mostly used by journalists or opposition members on fishing expeditions looking for something which might embarrass the government. I think you would be surprised at some of the absurd requests which were put through under ATIP. Every nut job who hates the government makes demands under it for whatever they think will either embarrass the government or cost them a lot of time and effort to fulfill.

[margrace]

I wondered how long it would be before Harper tried to Shut up Sheila Fraser, after all he has made it plain that women have no place in his government.

[jdobbin]

Who used it and for what purpose? I'm guessing it was mostly used by journalists or opposition members on fishing expeditions looking for something which might embarrass the government. I think you would be surprised at some of the absurd requests which were put through under ATIP. Every nut job who hates the government makes demands under it for whatever they think will either embarrass the government or cost them a lot of time and effort to fulfill.

It was a central registry used by various people to hold the government accountable. At one time, this was extremely important to Harper. The registry didn't cost a lot of money and saved time by ensuring people didn't make duplicate requests.

This Conservative position on government information used to be that information should be readily available to hold civil servants and elected officials accountable to the public. Now that they are in government, people are "nutbars" and requests are frivolous.

[margrace]

I am beginning to wonder if the reason Dion got put in there was to allow Harper control, do you suppose the Liberals are in on this too?

[Michael Bluth]

I am beginning to wonder if the reason Dion got put in there was to allow Harper control, do you suppose the Liberals are in on this too?

I wondered how long it would be before Harper tried to Shut up Sheila Fraser, after all he has made it plain that women have no place in his government.

Can you help me keep your conspiracy theories straight. (Not that I agree with the basis for any of your

Harper is a control freak, so all his actions are because of his desire to maintain control.

Harper has no place for women, so he does whatever he can to 'shut up' strong women.

The Liberals are so confident in their place in the country they do nothing to dispel talk of the LPC being "Canada's natural governing party".

The Liberals have a place for women and despise control freaks in a free and open society.

So Dion became leader to help Harper with his hidden agenda.

There appears to be a logical contradiction...

[BubberMiley]

Every nut job who hates the government makes demands under it for whatever they think will either embarrass the government or cost them a lot of time and effort to fulfill.

Ah, so you're familiar with it from when the Liberals were in power?

[Argus]

It was a central registry used by various people to hold the government accountable.

Oh bullshit. It registered what other people had asked for under the ATIP. How does that hold the government accountable? People who request information under ATIP are free to disseminate that information as they choose.

[Fortunata]

Oh bullshit. It registered what other people had asked for under the ATIP. How does that hold the government accountable? People who request information under ATIP are free to disseminate that information as they choose.

IIRC, it not only registered what all people asked for under the ATIP but the length of time it took to fulfill that request. That holds governments accountable. I guess Steve didn't like the press and the public to see the serious slowdown of completion under his reign compared to other governments.

Parrot whatever you want to Argus but there is a serious problem with the speed (or lack thereof) under Steve and the amount of blacked-out censored material to come out of this gov't. There is no openness and transparency as Steve and his faithful no-matter-what herd bleat about.

[jdobbin]

Oh bullshit. It registered what other people had asked for under the ATIP. How does that hold the government accountable? People who request information under ATIP are free to disseminate that information as they choose.

This question has been answered already but how it holds the government accountable is it shows how long a request took to process, what was asked and what department had the information.

We have already seen how the Tories have buried their chartered flight records in other department spending and how long it took to sift through freedom of information requests to get it. It is not the transparency the government promised.

This registry was one of the smart things the Mulroney government had put into place. If the Liberals had ended it, we would have seen right wing howling.

[nothinarian]

This question has been answered already but how it holds the government accountable is it shows how long a request took to process, what was asked and what department had the information.

We have already seen how the Tories have buried their chartered flight records in other department spending and how long it took to sift through freedom of information requests to get it. It is not the transparency the government promised.

This registry was one of the smart things the Mulroney government had put into place. If the Liberals had ended it, we would have seen right wing howling.

No probs with Martin hiding anything - see date on press release about his Xmas Moroccan vacation

He could have learned a thing or two from Chretien - transparency has its benefits but not in politics - see Gomery

Love him or hate him - Harper understands the benefits of running a tight ship

[nothinarian]

No probs with Martin hiding anything - see date on press release about his Xmas Moroccan vacation

He could have learned a thing or two from Chretien - transparency has its benefits but not in politics - see Gomery

Love him or hate him - Harper understands the benefits of running a tight ship

forgot press release link

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories