Abortion as Art?

[Black Dog]

What I've been saying is that a woman has many many more birthcontrol choices than a man.

First, you assume that everyone has equal access to all forms of birth control. That's not true. Second: not every women can or should use any and all forms of birth control. Finally, so f**king what if there are more options for women?

: so what?

Men simply don't have the choices that women have and therefor their culpability should be less than the woman's. That's all I'm saying.

So it should be what? 50-50 in the case of a broken rubber, 60-40 if the sponge doesn't work, 90-10 if she forgot the pill?

That's loco.

I'm all for supporting people who need help, just not those who won't help themselves or don't take responsibilty for their actions.

No you're not. You're advocating punishing children for their mother's actions by depriving them of support. All based on anecdotal evidence.

[Drea]

Well the Black Dog has spoken.

Boy was I wrong! I can't believe it -- I am going to call my lawyer and see if I can get money out of my son's father. Never mind that he makes 50% of what I make -- he frigging owes his kid. Rather than worrying about whether or not he can feed the four children that live with him -- I think he should buck up -- after all he gave the child 50% of his DNA so he owes me bigtime.

And him paying money will improve their relationship exponentially! Suddenly my son will have a father who "cares", who "wants" to come for his birthdays... Wow... if only I would have known this 14 years ago! Black Dog, where was your sage advice when I needed it!?

/sarcasm

Black Dog -- what about cases such as the above example? Of course none of you will even mention it because it doesn't fit in your perfect pink world of good mommies and bad daddies.

You are all so worried about the child yet never mention that money does not replace a loving parent. And many many women purposefully keep the father out of the child's life (except for his money).

Family court is not fair to men so why on earth should life be fair to women?

If women want equality, they should step up to the plate IMO.

[Black Dog]

Black Dog -- what about cases such as the above example? Of course none of you will even mention it because it doesn't fit in your perfect pink world of good mommies and bad daddies.

Uh: no. Unless you can prove that these examples are the norm, rather than the exception, they aren't particularly instructive. Now, are you suggesting the majority of single mothers do not require financial support for their kids and that the majority of men would be significantly affected by ponying up for child support?

You are all so worried about the child yet never mention that money does not replace a loving parent.

Because it's irrelevant to the discussion.

And many many women purposefully keep the father out of the child's life (except for his money)

Okay: how many?

Family court is not fair to men so why on earth should life be fair to women?

To the first: prove it. To the second, what the fuck? You actually want to punish women for things that are not their fault?

If women want equality, they should step up to the plate IMO.

Yeah, 'cause women who have kids on their own have such an easy ride as it is. A life of luxury it is.

Edited April 29, 2008 by Black Dog

[Drea]

Life isn't fair.

I will be the first to admit that we have yet to reach true equality between the sexes and that life is not fair for women because they are the ones to bear the burden of choosing what to do with a pregnancy.

But that does not mean that women are walking wombs and men are walking wallets. As human beings, we are much more than that.

I don't have time now, but maybe over the weekend I will try to find some stats... just check out some father's rights forums/websites. It's a real eye-opener.

Until I got involved in the case stated earlier, I had no idea how courts treat men or how difficult it is for a man to obtain custody (even when the mother is considered unfit).

[Oleg Bach]

Life isn't fair.

I will be the first to admit that we have yet to reach true equality between the sexes and that life is not fair for women because they are the ones to bear the burden of choosing what to do with a pregnancy.

But that does not mean that women are walking wombs and men are walking wallets. As human beings, we are much more than that.

I don't have time now, but maybe over the weekend I will try to find some stats... just check out some father's rights forums/websites. It's a real eye-opener.

Until I got involved in the case stated earlier, I had no idea how courts treat men or how difficult it is for a man to obtain custody (even when the mother is considered unfit).

Just goes to show you that parts of the world are nuts - and I wonder how far this mental illness has spread? As far as men in courts - so called family courts..remember that they hate the family as it traditionally stands..also they are not really the woman's friend - and this ruse about doing what is best for the children is a fraud - they really don't give a damn about your kids. If you as a man are unfortunate enough to have married a woman that is stupid enough to enter on of these institutiohs driven by base greed or hate with the assistance of a parasitic lawyer that pretends he or she cares - well - God have mercy on you! Hitler with his stolen Freudian concepts used to control the population through base instincts and emotions....said "Give me control of the woman...and I have control of the child..the man will follow"...Boycott these evil places if you can! YOU as an EMOTIONAL man being controled by what you cherish and love are a loser.

ALSO - it is not the woman that benefits in the long run..she is eventually jettisoned once they have used her..so the whold family loses - the judges that are appointed to family court are lunitics and powermongers who thrive on fraud....so reason with your wife or husband and do not fall into this insidious trap that is orgainized crime in eccence - the courts are NOT your friends..they are NOT your wifes or husbands friends...and certainly damagers of children...IF you fall into the trap do NOT show emotion and be ready to lose all - including your goods and kids...when they see that you will not kiss ass and submit to slavery..that you are going to maintain your principles no matter what happens - then they are disarmed - but this takes a man that is willing to forfiet all! That's the ony way you beat them - other than that - they will control you through what you love...

In the movie "The Green Mile" - there is a line...."They are killing us with our own love and it is happening all over the world" - You can not be a sissy and cry - my children my children - I will do any thing for them - to hell with all of them - Quote "Those who try to save their lives will loose them - those willing to lose their lives will find true life" - So what I am saying is - you have to bluff them...and love the son's of bitches. Family Law is insidious social engineering and abuse of woman and men and children - IT IS AN INDUSTRY.

[Black Dog]

I don't have time now, but maybe over the weekend I will try to find some stats... just check out some father's rights forums/websites. It's a real eye-opener.

Until I got involved in the case stated earlier, I had no idea how courts treat men or how difficult it is for a man to obtain custody (even when the mother is considered unfit).

I'd take anything from MRA's with a huge grain of salt. There's a loud and vocal lunatic fringe out there and separating truth from misogynistic propaganda is a chore.

[guyser]

Boy was I wrong! I can't believe it -- I am going to call my lawyer and see if I can get money out of my son's father. Never mind that he makes 50% of what I make -- he frigging owes his kid.

Yes he does. Your son lost something along the line because his father was not monetarily supporting him.

Rather than worrying about whether or not he can feed the four children that live with him -- I think he should buck up -- after all he gave the child 50% of his DNA so he owes me bigtime.

No he owes his son. Four other children are not your sons problem

And him paying money will improve their relationship exponentially! Suddenly my son will have a father who "cares", who "wants" to come for his birthdays... Wow... if only I would have known this 14 years ago! Black Dog, where was your sage advice when I needed it!?

/sarcasm

Sarcasm my ass. You have this stupid annoying habit of posting things that no one, save for you, has advocated. Your sarcams is a cover for the fact that (a) you cannot comprehend the simplest of notions and ( to cover for a major lack of grey matter between the ears.

Show me where anyone has said paying money will make his father care or want to come to a BD party. Of course that will be impossible, but it will not stop you.

Stop attributing notions never expressed.

[Oleg Bach]

Yes he does. Your son lost something along the line because his father was not monetarily supporting him.

No he owes his son. Four other children are not your sons problem

Sarcasm my ass. You have this stupid annoying habit of posting things that no one, save for you, has advocated. Your sarcams is a cover for the fact that (a) you cannot comprehend the simplest of notions and ( to cover for a major lack of grey matter between the ears.

Show me where anyone has said paying money will make his father care or want to come to a BD party. Of course that will be impossible, but it will not stop you.

Stop attributing notions never expressed.

My silly wife attempted to turn my into a week end dad that pays out money at a distance...this happened about 15 years ago - I simply ignored the whole idea - and we lasted for 25 years and still see each other for romance and conversation..Point being - I did NOT have kids to NOT be a father and become some chump living in a rooming house with plastic curtains with a court inflicted tax problem - sending money off to a wife and wayward children - Money that would eventually go to some boyfriend that would buy a bass boat and beer - to hell with that idea...so - I simply would not follow this preverse modernity - where a father was a slave and not a father...I have a loving relationship with all of my adult children and I am glad I was a freak who did not allow - the courts to husband my wife....I made the right decision not to believe in institutional family law...I believed in family period and the parasites did not have a chance to seduce my wife and hold my kids hostage ----I behaved like a real man and not a worm - I OWN my family and wife as she also does NOT the state - and NOT some blood sucking lawyer or crazed judge!

[guyser]

My silly wife attempted to turn my into a week end dad blah blha blah.... wife and hold my kids hostage ----I behaved like a real man and not a worm - I OWN my family and wife as she also does NOT the state - and NOT some blood sucking lawyer or crazed judge!

Yup, thats nice thanks.

Edited April 29, 2008 by guyser

[Oleg Bach]

Yup, thats nice thanks.

That is a corruption of my quote. I do not use the words "bla bla bla" _ You inserted that and posted it as my words..that's un-principled and the fact that I am not a systems person seems to preturb you greatly. Anyone reading this will see that you discount my statement and marginalize it not to mention pervert it with insertions. I would kindly say that in a true debate you will suck up to what benefits YOU in society while that personal benefit harms all others - do I smell fear and selfishness? Perhaps you should stand up for yourself and stop sucking up to those that you think have power - Maybe you need to empower yourself! AND not by dis-empowering others.

[Drea]

you cannot comprehend the simplest of notions and ( to cover for a major lack of grey matter between the ears.

Stop insulting me please.

Thank you in advance.

Cheers!

Drea

[guyser]

Stop insulting me please.

Thank you in advance.

Cheers!

Drea

Stop insulting the integrity of posters who clearly hold notions different than what you attribute to them.

Fair?

[Drea]

"Insulting the integrity..."

You mean me lumping you in with weak women?

I did not say "guyser you are an idiot". I did not insult you personally. In almost every post in this thread you have insulted me directly.

But we all know that she would demand support if it were her who got pregnant and the guy said he used condoms that he knew had holes in them

See how it works? Probably not

You parade your stupidity with such glee. Glad you revel in it.

Dont forget , R does not mean Race.....it means Reverse.

We have been over that and you forgot injunction. But thats a SOP for you

What does SOP stand for?

Keep a list handy when you move to the next room since you cant talk on point.

Oh please for the love of mankind tell me you are not a social worker or having another whatsoever to do with serving people through social agencies.

I could not think of anyone more ill equipped to do so.

you cannot comprehend the simplest of notions and ( to cover for a major lack of grey matter between the ears.

While I may insult your so-called integrity.... you flat out insult. Directly. Personally.

And I am still wondering about that injunction before birth...

Cheers!

Edited to add:

It's funny how you are the one who can't get over the anger, yet the one who gets insults thrown at them is forgiving.... funny isn't it?

I never stay angry very long. Life is far too short to remain in an angry state.

Edited April 29, 2008 by Drea

[AngusThermopyle]

What does SOP stand for?

Standard operating procedure.

[Drea]

Thanks Angus

I was thinkin' "Stubborn Old People" or something like that

[Drea]

Hey Guyser, I am still wondering about the injunction...

Googled "Injunction Before Birth" and came up with nothing. google

Did you just make that up? The only link I found that included "Injunction Before Birth" is comments in this forum.

Elaboration would be great Guyser!

[Guest American Woman]

Googled "Injunction Before Birth" and came up with nothing. google

Did you just make that up? The only link I found that included "Injunction Before Birth" is comments in this forum.

"Results 1 - 10 of about 226,000 for injunction to stop abortion. (0.27 seconds)"

[guyser]

"Results 1 - 10 of about 226,000 for injunction to stop abortion. (0.27 seconds)"

There is your answer. <insert comment here>

Thanks AW.

[Drea]

Thanks AW.

Don't have time right now to go through any links... But I briefly looked through it and boy oh boy....

The woman's right to choose is paramount IMO.

No one should be able to control another person's bodily functions.