Hillier to Resign

[Canadian Blue]

If we go back further, we did even better under King. Is that how big you want to go?

Louis St Laurent, a Liberal that actually stood for a strong military.

Have troops levels increased? Do you have a cite? I know the Liberals put it in the budget to have 5000 more troops. Have the Tories carried it out?

The Canadian Forces is continuously recruiting, however their are strains on the training system. I myself had to wait for about three months in Borden before starting my Sig QL3's and some trades found themselves waiting for up to a year to get on a course. Once they begin streamlining training we'll see the numbers start to go up. One only has to look at the new recruiting drive to see that the current government is attempting to build up the military.

The Canadian Forces along with the RCMP are both currently in the middle of massive retirements and few applications. We are under strain, however the government is attempting to build up both organizations.

[jdobbin]

Louis St Laurent, a Liberal that actually stood for a strong military.

At a time when we were at war in Korea and at the heart of creating NATO and acting as a bulwark in Europe.

Even the U.S has drawn down from that time and they are fighting a war in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Martin started the rebuilding process after years of cuts by both Liberal and Tory governments that preceded it. The cuts had gone too far by anyone's standards. However, Harper's spending so far has not gone up in terms of a percentage of the budget and is not that much more than what Martin put into place.

The Canadian Forces is continuously recruiting, however their are strains on the training system.

I myself had to wait for about three months in Borden before starting my Sig QL3's and some trades found themselves waiting for up to a year to get on a course. Once they begin streamlining training we'll see the numbers start to go up. One only has to look at the new recruiting drive to see that the current government is attempting to build up the military.

And as I have shown you from the link above, the military has had to "re-profile" its efforts a lot lower because it hasn't done a great job of building the numbers. The Ombudsman reported those failures back in 2007.

The Canadian Forces along with the RCMP are both currently in the middle of massive retirements and few applications. We are under strain, however the government is attempting to build up both organizations.

And so far the military has not done a great job of recruiting given the resources to do the job.

http://www.ombudsman.forces.gc.ca/mr-sm/ls...7/rs-sr-eng.asp

The investigation found that, since 2002, the Canadian Forces has met or has come close to meeting its overall recruiting targets; however, the investigation also concluded that there is significant room for improvement related to recruiting. In particular, the Ombudsman emphasized his concern regarding the number of applicants that quit the process as a result of a problem or delay experienced during one of the recruiting phases.

In terms of the RCMP, they are recruiting in a heavily competitive market. Every community in Canada is trying to hire cops and subsequently, some places are falling short of qualified candidates. The RCMP are looking to recruit is areas they have never gone before. Last year, they advertised in a gay news magazine for officers.

[Muddy]

Why would he say anything negative about Harper if he is about to be a candidate?

Apparently you did not watch CTV after his resignation during questioning and reporters after the news conference. They were the ones perpetuating that Hillier was being forced out by Harper. I don`t see where Hillier gave any indication that he would be seeking political office under the CPC banner.

[Army Guy]

This news has taken many by surprise, Gen Hillier is one of a kind, a soldiers soldier. a crismatic leader, who had the ability to express himself and be heard, be it our nations leaders, Canadian citizens, and right down to the private on the ground in Afganistan. He will be missed by the military community, as it is under his leadership that the rebuilding of our Armed forces was started and set on it's current course...He leaves behind a huge set of boots to be filled, it's these boots that concern all of us in the military now...I hope that our government is up to the challange of choosing the right man for the job, and not some yes man. but rather someone who will continue rebuilding the military and setting the bar even higher.

CDS message to the troops

[White Doors]

He will be missed. A straight talking, no nonsense leader. How refreshing he was to the establishment.

Hope they get someone that is even half as capable.

[Army Guy]

What do you do with a world class military?? They don't seat around, so you have them in combat all time. Is that what you really want?

This really shows how little you actually know about our military, about it's mission, about what it does, and how it effects Canadians everyday...

I don't think Canadians want a military like the US but then again with the NAU just down the road and the US and Canada already sharing military,

No they don't in fact when it comes to our military most Canadians pay it lip service only..when it comes down to our military we don't know what we want...as long as it is not along the lines of the americans....

The sharing of militaries is false, and misleading....we share a few resources in times of need, providing those needs do not conflict with each other....for a nation that really spends alot of time trying not to be american, we sure depend on them for more than we should...

At the time the Libs did what they had to do for the national debt and it was the military that suffered and if the Libs didn't do what they did back then, Harper wouldn't have a surplus to do what he's doing would he??

Please, The liberals cut back the military, not to pay down the dept but to have the funds needed for liberal projects, perhaps you can explain all the liberal surpluses at the end of the year, and what percentage of those surpluses actually went to paying down our debt, did any of that surplus money go towards health care, education, or replace funding to the military..

[Army Guy]

We also note that many world-class militias have been used to exterminate the intellectuals (ie education).

Ahh , an historian, or is it that spending money on our military just scares you....name one Canadian militia that has been used to exterminate the intellectuals ....There is not many things that piss off Canadians, The hockey game being cancelled or moved for some polictical statement...our pogy checks being late....the beer store closing early....and our military being used in any offensive actions....

[Kitchener]

The liberals cut back the military, not to pay down the dept but to have the funds needed for liberal projects

Eliminating the deficit and paying down the debt were the Liberals' projects. (I assume you meant capital-L Liberal; the Liberals of that time were very busy cutting small-l liberal programs and institutions as well.)

But I expect you're right that politics was the key consideration. It's politically easiest to gore everyone's ox at once than to cut social spending in the name of debt control while pouring more money into the military. This was a mistake all around; as Linda McQuaig has argued in impressive detail, they could have been running only a slightly slower pay-down schedule while funding (socially and economically important) social programs at a much higher level. The same applies to military spending, no doubt.

Yet in part this was down to the pro-spending crowd, too, who just couldn't stop whinging about needing new helicopters, air interceptors, tanks, and so forth. It was a lot easier for the Liberals to let the armed forces wither on the vine, when the primary points of discussion revolved around no purchases under hundreds of millions of dollars. There were a lot of improvements, personnel increases, and equipment purchases that could have been advocated on a much smaller scale, too.

[margrace]

Oh Well

Edited April 16, 2008 by margrace

[margrace]

Harper will make sure he tries to put in someone who will Kootow to him

[M.Dancer]

Harper will make sure he tries to put in someone who will Kootow to him

Of course....that's why they didn't want him to go?

After a meeting with Mr. Harper yesterday where he tendered his resignation, Gen. Hillier rejected the suggestion he'd been pushed, and sources said he'd been offered a two-year extension if he wanted it.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home

What ever his plans are after decades of public service he is now free to write his own ticket.

[Army Guy]

Eliminating the deficit and paying down the debt were the Liberals' projects. (I assume you meant capital-L Liberal; the Liberals of that time were very busy cutting small-l liberal programs and institutions as well.)

As it should have been, since in was a Liberal project to increase the debt in past years....

but what has me confused is how can the PC have the the current spending , and maintain Liberal debt reduction at the same rates...which leads me to believe that the liberals also had the same amont of free cash to spend but on what is the question....not the military, nor education, or health care...

liberal spending

[DrGreenthumb]

As it should have been, since in was a Liberal project to increase the debt in past years....

but what has me confused is how can the PC have the the current spending , and maintain Liberal debt reduction at the same rates...which leads me to believe that the liberals also had the same amont of free cash to spend but on what is the question....not the military, nor education, or health care...

liberal spending

Give it a rest, it was Mulrooney that saddled Canadians with debt up to our eyebrows. The Liberals finally had us back in respectable economic shape, until the conservatives got back in to destroy our economy and pile the debt back up.

[Kitchener]

As it should have been, since in was a Liberal project to increase the debt in past years....

The debt and deficit they were fighting were the largest in Canadian history, by far. And they were produced (the deficit entirely, the debt very substantially) by the Conservatives, from who they took over in 1993.

but what has me confused is how can the PC have the the current spending , and maintain Liberal debt reduction at the same rates...which leads me to believe that the liberals also had the same amont of free cash to spend but on what is the question....not the military, nor education, or health care...

They have smaller surpluses, in fact. And they've cut spending in a range of areas, including environmental programs, while increasing spending on the military somewhat. Which is exactly what you'd expect, if the Liberals had been largely devoted to debt reduction and not so much to social programs and infrastructure.

liberal spending

Note the date: 9 full years after they took office, and after the military reductions of the 90's. Notice also what the article actually says... "Mr. Chrétien can open the government's wallet and allocate new money for projects and issues that some of his cabinet ministers and backbench MPs have supported to no avail in the past."

Like I said.

[Canadian Blue]

Give it a rest, it was Mulrooney that saddled Canadians with debt up to our eyebrows. The Liberals finally had us back in respectable economic shape, until the conservatives got back in to destroy our economy and pile the debt back up.

If the Liberals had followed through with the Red Book we still would have been in a huge debt. Notice how they didn't scrap NAFTA or the GST, both implemented by the PC's under Mulroney.

[madmax]

Ahh , an historian, or is it that spending money on our military just scares you....name one Canadian militia that has been used to exterminate the intellectuals ....There is not many things that piss off Canadians, The hockey game being cancelled or moved for some polictical statement...our pogy checks being late....the beer store closing early....and our military being used in any offensive actions....

The Khmer Rouge were successful at purging intellectuals. The USSR under Lenin and Stalin. Nazi Germany.

Communist China. Hmm, Canada? Nope, not in my history books.

[madmax]

If the Liberals had followed through with the Red Book we still would have been in a huge debt. Notice how they didn't scrap NAFTA or the GST, both implemented by the PC's under Mulroney.

I have no reason to sing a song of joy, over one of the largest tax grabs in Canadian History. Enough money to even bail a Liberal Government out

NAFTA is simply a trade deal with as many flaws as strengths, but only the Canadian Public actually believed the Liberals would scrap it as promised. And they didn't.

And I do think Hillier will look for newer pastures, in government or running as a CPC candidate.

[M.Dancer]

I have no reason to sing a song of joy, over one of the largest tax grabs in Canadian History. Enough money to even bail a Liberal Government out

NAFTA is simply a trade deal with as many flaws as strengths, but only the Canadian Public actually believed the Liberals would scrap it as promised. And they didn't.

And I do think Hillier will look for newer pastures, in government or running as a CPC candidate.

I think he will go on a speaking tour and write a book and then retire quite comfortably as he deserves.

[Kitchener]

I think he will go on a speaking tour and write a book and then retire quite comfortably as he deserves.

Indeed. For all that he was sometimes accused of being too overtly political, whatever that means, Hillier never struck me as someone who enjoyed politics nor as someone who wanted to do more of it. Writing, commenting, speaking... the Lewis Mackenzie plan would probably suit him well.

[Qwerty]

This really is sad as he was a great leader and a soldiers General...Canada has lost a great man today.

[Muddy]

This really is sad as he was a great leader and a soldiers General...Canada has lost a great man today.

What did he die? Hillier wants to take some time for himself. He did a great job and he can be proud. But he is not dead yet and I am sure we will see more of him in the future.

[Topaz]

I could be wrong but I thought I heard that Hiller and MCKAY didn`t see eye to eye and it wasn`t Harper. I bet he`ll run for Fed gov`t and want to be minister of defense to help protect the military from stupid government decisions.

[Army Guy]

Give it a rest, it was Mulrooney that saddled Canadians with debt up to our eyebrows. The Liberals finally had us back in respectable economic shape, until the conservatives got back in to destroy our economy and pile the debt back up.

Your right it is easy to piont fingers, when they are backed up with facts....the deficit can be traced backed to Trudeau period of reign....this is where it all started....and while i will agree mulroney did carry on with trudeau's spending habits, and did nothing to reduce the debt, we can hardly blame him alone....Liberals were spending massives amounts way before the PC, and mulroney period...

But your right in the last 40 years, the liberals have been in power for 30, i guess according to your observation we should have been in great fiscal health, before and after the 10 years of PC riegn....And the current government is maintaining what MR Martin set out in dept reduction...so how can debt be pilling up once again...

Edited April 17, 2008 by Army Guy

[madmax]

I could be wrong but I thought I heard that Hiller and MCKAY didn`t see eye to eye and it wasn`t Harper. I bet he`ll run for Fed gov`t and want to be minister of defense to help protect the military from stupid government decisions.

A little bit of both. Hiller didn't see eye to eye with McKay, and he wasn't amused with Harpers political positions vs telling it like it is. Harper didn't like the General explaining to the public the truth as he saw it.

He was stating in realistic terms that we need to be in Afghanistan for a decade, (pretty much done one decade already, so what's another when he has set a goal), whereas that wasn't politically prudent for Harper, who hasn't been able to explain the mission he inherited from the Libs any better then they could. Really it's tweedle dee and tweedle dum playing politics.

I bet he will run for Federal Government and as A conservative to shore up support for the Canadian Mission and more importantly Canadian Forces.

This won't hurt the Cons or Harper.

Grown ups have disputes and sort them out. Harper could learn alot from Hillier.

One thing he doesn't seem to advocate publicly is the proper support in monetary terms and compensations to Veterans of these conflicts.

Something another East Coaster advocates for such as Stoffer.

McKay is more or less a politician like any other sort.

THink of a manager in a retail outlet who moves from Draperies to Audio Video, to jewelry to mens clothing.

But even worse a Cabinet politician has become just a figure head and do not advocate for their file.

[madmax]

so how can debt be pilling up once again...

The debt is not piling up from what I understand. The Surplusses are disapearing, and we are revenue neutral IIRC.

The Military has been dissed and criticised, put on the back burner, and really only one real controversy in the past 20 years occurred in Somalia. It was Chretian who used this and some smearing video tapes to reduce the armed forces more, vs get down to the real source of the problem.

People need to understand that the military is a social service funded by the public. Like many Social Services in the 90s they were cut even more to deal with the federal debt and deficits.

Like said in the Afghan threads, It is time to put the monies back into the military. They were down to the bone as far as I am concerned in the 80s, and CF became known as the best McGyvers found anywhere.