RCMP raids Tory party headquarters

[jdobbin]

Geez dobbin, are you actually trying to tell me that the Liberals don't have media favourites they like to use when releasing their stuff? This may be clumsy and stupid but that's all it is.

Never said anything of the sort but whenever politicians are too close to reporters or try to shape the story by bringing them in for "exclusives", it often ends in a fiasco. I think it is always clumsy to try and pick favourites.

It has hurt the Liberals, now it is hurting the Tories.

It is better to release information in a timely fashion and then be available for comment to all that want to ask questions.

Edited April 22, 2008 by jdobbin

[Technocrat]

I agree.. I wish people would realize the danger in their behaviour. Not just for their party, but for our country.

Hell hath officially frozen over.

I fully agree with Mikedavid00...

I never thought the day would come

Baffling.

[Alta4ever]

And your friends are all Conservatives. Does this surprise you?

My First party information seems a lot more credible then your third party

[jdobbin]

My First party information seems a lot more credible then your third party

Names your friends then. Citations, please.

[punked]

My First party information seems a lot more credible then your third party

Yah who told you and why did they not tell the media who report differently?

[Alta4ever]

Names your friends then. Citations, please.

I would rather not, whether you beleive me or not.

[Alta4ever]

Yah who told you and why did they not tell the media who report differently?

How often does the media acurately report the facts?

[jdobbin]

I would rather not, whether you beleive me or not.

I don't believe you. And I have not seen one report from a non-Tory who said the Liberals were there ahead of Elections Canada. It is a lie.

[punked]

How often does the media acurately report the facts?

They usually don't make people up to prove their points like you.

I had a friend who was there too he said not only was the RCMP the first on scene but when they opened the door Harper was in the room just shredding evidence. See how easy it is to distort the facts when you just get to make them up?

[jdobbin]

How often does the media acurately report the facts?

Yes, the old blame the media game. The Tories must trust some of them. They set up "private" meetings with them. How come none of them said the Liberals were there ahead of Elections Canada and the RCMP? The reason they don't is because it is a bold faced lie.

It is put up or shut up time for the right wing. Produce the names of these of these witnesses or be prepared to be called liars.

Edited April 22, 2008 by jdobbin

[Alta4ever]

Yes, the old blame the media game. The Tories must trust some of them. They set up "private" meetings with them. How come none of them said the Liberals were there ahead of Elections Canada and the RCMP? The reason they don't is because it is a bold faced lie.

It is put up or shut up time for the right wing. Produce the names of these of these witnesses or be prepared to be called liars.

Fine call me a liar but really what do I have to prove to you, lets face it nothing said by any on this board would ever sway your personal beliefs.

[jdobbin]

Fine call me a liar but really what do I have to prove to you, lets face it nothing said by any on this board would ever sway your personal beliefs.

If you could show me someone who wasn't a Tory, I might believe that Elections Canada or the RCMP had a leak. All I have ever found is accusations made by Tories and not one independent witness to the event.

Even other right wingers have given up the argument that Liberals were waiting outside with a camera before the raid.

Edited April 22, 2008 by jdobbin

[Alta4ever]

If you could show me someone who wasn't a Tory, I might be believe that Elections Canada or the RCMP had a leak. All I have ever found is accusations made by Tories and not one independent witness to the event.

Even other right wingers have given up the argument that Liberals were waiting outside with a camera before the raid.

YOu have been pretty quick beleive unsubstanciated accusations made by the liberals on past issues like Cadman.

[jdobbin]

Latest report from the Ottawa Citizen says that Harper's inner circle is named in the warrant.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/s...6d6&k=14163

Three senior officials in the Harper government, including the prime minister's Quebec lieutenant and transport minister, Lawrence Cannon, are referenced in court documents supporting last week's search of Conservative party headquarters over the "in and out" election finance investigation.

Documents filed in support of the search warrant show that Patrick Muttart, now the prime minister's deputy chief of staff for strategic planning, and Mr. Cannon, the MP for Pontiac, were included in e-mails planning the "regional media buys" that originally raised concerns of Elections Canada investigators. Mr. Muttart currently ranks behind only chief of staff Ian Brodie on Prime Minister Stephen Harper's staff.

The references to two officials close to Mr. Harper could help opposition parties try to tie the Prime Minister's Office to the issue now dominating the federal political agenda.

[jdobbin]

YOu have been pretty quick beleive unsubstanciated accusations made by the liberals on past issues like Cadman.

It wasn't made the Liberals. It was made by Cadman's widow and family.

What are your sources for the Liberals being outside Tory headquarters? Stop shielding those people.

Edited April 22, 2008 by jdobbin

[Who's Doing What?]

His satement was factual.

Surveys show that majorityof immigrants simply do not identify themselves as Canadian. To a point even that their own children born here do not.

Any high immigrant area votes Liberal. That's just factual. And was about the ONLY ridings that voted Liberal last election.

So yes, that statement is certainly factual.

His statement was not factual at all. It is a bunch of racist redneck crap.

Here it is to remind you:

"And one could say Liberal votes are concentrated largely among immigrants - while real Canadians vote Tory."

"...real Canadians vote Tory." What a bunch of meadow muffins. (If you don't know what a meadow muffin is I would gladly send you one to try.)

I know a ton of people who vote Liberal whose families have been in this country a lot longer than yours or Argus' likely have. I know my family can trace it roots back to the 1700's in this country, and several of them vote Liberal. My friend's family has been living on the same piece of land north of Toronto since 1850 and they vote Liberal.

So as for Argus' statement being factual, it is not. As for the comment of "real canadians vote Tory" it is total and complete Road Apples. ( I can send you some of those aswell.)

[Technocrat]

His statement was not factual at all. It is a bunch of racist redneck crap.

Here it is to remind you:

"And one could say Liberal votes are concentrated largely among immigrants - while real Canadians vote Tory."

"...real Canadians vote Tory." What a bunch of meadow muffins. (If you don't know what a meadow muffin is I would gladly send you one to try.)

I know a ton of people who vote Liberal whose families have been in this country a lot longer than yours or Argus' likely have. I know my family can trace it roots back to the 1700's in this country, and several of them vote Liberal. My friend's family has been living on the same piece of land north of Toronto since 1850 and they vote Liberal.

So as for Argus' statement being factual, it is not. As for the comment of "real canadians vote Tory" it is total and complete Road Apples. ( I can send you some of those aswell.)

mmmm meadow muffins and road apples... sounds delicious

You should publish a political cookbook you may find a ready market in the conservative party

*note the above comment was for a few silly chuckles no need to get your panties in a knot*

got to love google images

for added fun

Edited April 22, 2008 by Technocrat

[August1991]

This thread is getting rough. The opposition is gearing up.

There's an election in the air. I can just smell it.

It's going to be All the Bureaucrats in Ottawa and Media in Toronto vs. Stephen Harper and the Conservatives.

[Qwerty]

His statement was not factual at all. It is a bunch of racist redneck crap.

Here it is to remind you:

"And one could say Liberal votes are concentrated largely among immigrants - while real Canadians vote Tory."

"...real Canadians vote Tory." What a bunch of meadow muffins. (If you don't know what a meadow muffin is I would gladly send you one to try.)

I know a ton of people who vote Liberal whose families have been in this country a lot longer than yours or Argus' likely have. I know my family can trace it roots back to the 1700's in this country, and several of them vote Liberal. My friend's family has been living on the same piece of land north of Toronto since 1850 and they vote Liberal.

So as for Argus' statement being factual, it is not. As for the comment of "real canadians vote Tory" it is total and complete Road Apples. ( I can send you some of those aswell.)

Urban voters are more left leaning than rural voters who tend to vote to the right in most cases. That is what is being said. I don't think that can be disputed since we know it to be true.

The LPC needed a break from governing, they were getting arrogant and sloppy and had a feeling that the Canadian taxpayer owed them something, everyone can agree with that. It happens to every government once they've been in power too long.

I want sound leadership and a government that will get too work and make progress and right now the CPC is providing that while the LPC gets there ship in order. At least Harper is making decisions and sticking with them, not like Mr. Martin who would flip flop almost daily. Once the CPC is in power for too long I'll be advocating they get booted too if they start showing the same condition of entitlement etc.

Every party moves money around in every election just usually not to the degree the CPC has in this instance. This is a witch hunt that will fizzle away. Oh to be fair, the RCMP never raided the offices, Elections Canada did. The RCMP just help serve the warrant. Let's keep it straight ok.

Edited April 22, 2008 by Qwerty

[Wild Bill]

Urban voters are more left leaning than rural voters who tend to vote to the right in most cases. That is what is being said. I don't think that can be disputed since we know it to be true.

Which leads to the question: does this make it impossible to please a reasonable majority of the electorate?

Perhaps we should make Toronto its own province, or maybe its own country! It has almost nothing in common with the rest of Canada yet its population and seat distribution lets it command an inordinate amount of political power. If you please Toronto to get elected, the rest of Ontario or even the country will likely hate you!

Maybe we should give up trying!

[Qwerty]

Which leads to the question: does this make it impossible to please a reasonable majority of the electorate?

Perhaps we should make Toronto its own province, or maybe its own country! It has almost nothing in common with the rest of Canada yet its population and seat distribution lets it command an inordinate amount of political power. If you please Toronto to get elected, the rest of Ontario or even the country will likely hate you!

Maybe we should give up trying!

The CPC has the right approach. Ignore Toronto altogether. Nothing makes them more irate. Toronto is like a 2 year old which demands constant attention and whines when it doesn't get it.

[jdobbin]

Another myth struck down about how Elections Canada got onto the "in and out" financing. They make out that it was the Liberals that informed on them but here is what Elections Canada says:

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/416912

It was the Conservative party's friends, not its political enemies, that aroused Elections Canada suspicions about overspending in the 2006 election campaign.

According to a sworn affidavit, executives with Retail Media Inc., the Toronto "media buying" firm for the Conservatives, balked when investigators showed them an invoice on the company's letterhead.

The executives "didn't recognize" the invoice, similar to that filed by about 15 Conservative candidates among 67 from the 2006 election seeking more than $825,000 in taxpayer-funded rebates.

Marilyn Dixon, chief operating officer, suggested the invoice "must have been altered or created by someone" because they didn't look like the ones her firm submitted to the Conservative Party of Canada.

Now, the party is under investigation for filing returns with Elections Canada "that it knew or ought reasonably to have known contained a materially false or misleading statement" on advertising expenses.

It is also facing allegations, unproven in court, that it conceived a scheme that would allow the national party to spend $1.1 million over its legal $18.2 million election expenses limit, leading to angry opposition charges yesterday that the Conservatives stole the election.

No formal charges have been laid under the Canada Elections Act, though three are under consideration. A lawsuit the Tory party launched to challenge the chief electoral officer's decision to deny rebates to candidates is on hold.

The details about the suspicious Retail Media invoice for $39,999.91 were laid out in a sworn affidavit filed by an elections investigator who sought a warrant to raid Conservative headquarters last week.

Appears like it was Tories who raised Elections Canada suspicions.

[Topaz]

Urban voters are more left leaning than rural voters who tend to vote to the right in most cases. That is what is being said. I don't think that can be disputed since we know it to be true.

The LPC needed a break from governing, they were getting arrogant and sloppy and had a feeling that the Canadian taxpayer owed them something, everyone can agree with that. It happens to every government once they've been in power too long.

I want sound leadership and a government that will get too work and make progress and right now the CPC is providing that while the LPC gets there ship in order. At least Harper is making decisions and sticking with them, not like Mr. Dithers who would flip flop almost daily. Once the CPC is in power for too long I'll be advocating they get booted too if they start showing the same condition of entitlement etc.

Every party moves money around in every election just usually not to the degree the CPC has in this instance. This is a witch hunt that will fizzle away. Oh to be fair, the RCMP never raided the offices, Elections Canada did. The RCMP just help serve the warrant. Let's keep it straight ok.

A minority government can only GOVERN if the OPPOSITION allows it to. Did Harper allow Martin to pass bills? NO, he fought hard to bring down the government so he could go to the PMO. Harper owes the Libs for the surplus he HAD, for the bills that been passed. Perhaps to save money on elections, Canada should allow the parties to take control of the PMO for 4 years each and then we could have an election to select the government we want in.

[jdobbin]

It's going to be All the Bureaucrats in Ottawa and Media in Toronto vs. Stephen Harper and the Conservatives.

Yes, that is how the right wing is framing the election. They says that Elections Canada is biased against them and then repeated the whopper that the Liberals were somehow informed about it all even before the raid.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

A Conservative MP claims Elections Canada is showing bias towards his party in its handling of the current election advertising scandal.

"We're very concerned with the conduct of Elections Canada," Pierre Poilievre told Canada AM on Tuesday.

But Deputy Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff said the key issue is the Tories allegedly overspending on advertising in the 2006 federal election as well as its attacks on the agency.

And then he goes on to say:

"We think that in a free country, candidates decide what goes in their materials, and not a government bureaucrat."

Poilievre noted a Liberal party camera "was suspiciously in tow" to document the April 15 raid.

There is that whopper again that the Liberals were there along with Elections Canada at the beginning of the raid.

As for this statement on local candidates, it seems that not all of them agreed with what was done and in some cases, the invoices appear to have been changed which is an absolute no no.

It is certainly possible about an election but the Liberals have their own problems to sort out first and time is running out for this spring. If Harper decides to play more brinkmanship with every vote being a confidence vote, the Liberals might bite. Guess we'll see what the next few polls say and whether all this appears to be an opening towards an election.

Here is what the Hills Times reports.

http://www.thehilltimes.ca/html/cover_inde...orbett/&c=1

Conservatives raised questions last week about how the media and opposition parties found out about the raid so quickly, and how they reached Conservative HQ within minutes. Tories have alleged that Elections Canada may have leaked the news to some reporters ahead of time.

However The Hill Times hears that the tip came from neither the Liberals (assuming the Liberals had a tip) nor Elections Canada. The tip to the CBC did not come from the Liberals because, like the other networks, they are said to have scrambled to get to the scene after seeing the CBC break the story in a live news hit at 11 a.m. Although a source tipped off the CBC about the raid, and the broadcaster got the story first, The Hill Times hears that it did not come from Elections Canada.

Mr. Comartin said he would not be surprised to learn that the tip did not come from Elections Canada, adding that it could just as easily come from the RCMP or the Toronto courthouse where the search warrant was issued. "It could have come out of the RCMP. They're rather notorious for their leaks," Mr. Comartin said. "I would put those, as sources of leaks, ahead of Corbett's office."

Still, Conservatives are raising questions about the search and how so many got there so quickly. Conservative MP Pierre Poilievre (Nepean-Carleton, Ont.) told The Hill Times last week that the Liberals may create attack ads out of the footage gained at the party headquarters, but added that the Liberals need to "tell the whole world who invited them to participate in the circus."

I think the questions has been answered several times: The Liberals saw it on CBC Newsworld. They got there has other reporters did.

As for CBC's scoop, the Tory government is free to launch an inquiry.

Edited April 22, 2008 by jdobbin

[Shakeyhands]

Which leads to the question: does this make it impossible to please a reasonable majority of the electorate?

Perhaps we should make Toronto its own province, or maybe its own country! It has almost nothing in common with the rest of Canada yet its population and seat distribution lets it command an inordinate amount of political power. If you please Toronto to get elected, the rest of Ontario or even the country will likely hate you!

Maybe we should give up trying!

Should the 10 people in a Podunk SK riding have the same political power as the 25000 that live in a Toronto riding? I'm workign in extremes here but come on...