Tory MP claims his fingernails are clean

[MontyBurns]

Harper seems unable to decide how to deal with homophobic comments and to what extent they're inappropriate. When he himself made them, he viewed a subsequent apology as sufficient.

When Larry Spencer made homophobic comments and then apologized for them, Harper asked for Spencer's resignation.

So now Harper needs to decide if Lukiwksi will be treated like Spencer or if he'll just accept that if he could get away with it, so can Lukiwski.

Harper knows that racist and sexist comments are totally unacceptable but homophobic comments are merely politically incorrect.

Harper should make these people heroes in the fight against political correctness.

[Shakeyhands]

I'd forgotten about the Harper/Robinson comment.. so classy this party!!!

So they believe the matter is closed, good. Keep him on, I hope someone in the opposition parties has the good sense to realease, in waves, all of these things come election time.

Edited April 4, 2008 by Shakeyhands

[jbg]

Harper seems unable to decide how to deal with homophobic comments and to what extent they're inappropriate. When he himself made them, he viewed a subsequent apology as sufficient.

When Larry Spencer made homophobic comments and then apologized for them, Harper asked for Spencer's resignation.

I would suppose it depends on how likely a "repeat performance" from the person involved is.

[peter_puck]

No, but my point is still the same. If the ill-conceived videotape is the first and only time this guy has said these types of remarks,

Sure it was...

[mikedavid00]

16-year-old videotape? And the G&M considers this news?

Something else. There is something unseemly to this whole "thought police" approach to politics. I'm reminded of the kid in school who points a finger and then tells the teacher.

While I agree,

I'm ultimately a realist and understand the typical Canadian voter pretty well and where their priorities are: the media telling them what to think are important issues (ie: race, religion, gay issues, climate change). This issue is food for them and the cbc.

I feel that for the good of the party, he should step down and do the right thing for the party.

I'm a bit upset that he hasn't.

This isn't a good thing for the parties image. They've worked so hard to rid themselves of the racist nazi party. Now this happens to give the cbc and far left ammo. That's all they are talking abou this morning.

American politicians understand very well how to keep their mouth shut and step down when they are caught. I don't know why Canadian politicians can't do the same.

[mikedavid00]

Stephen Harper will likely protect, offering some minor reprimand and calling the case closed. Actually, I believe this is just further evidence of the racist, xenophobic and homophobic underground that hides in the Conservative Party.

And this people is exactly why he should get the boot out of the party right away and put this issue to rest.

I hope Harper does the right thing. Actually, I hope he just steps down.

Part of being in a political party is protecting the name of the party and it's reputation. You can't put your power trip first.

(peronsally, i don't care much what personal views he has on gay people. My issue is the parties reputation).

[Topaz]

You really like to live in something other than reality don't you. Moore didn't have Harper get him out of it they were proven to be vacation pictures. What is with the venom, I'm sure you've lived a pure a virtuous life. :angry:

Moore told the Speaker that he wasn't looking at what the NDP said he was and that he would never bring disrespect to the House that way. THEN later he says it was his girlfriend in the pictures. It doesn't matter WHO it was the pictures weren't meant for the House of Commons! If he is so innocent why get rid of the laptop?? I only get angry when I see lies being told and the spinning of those lies in this government, which they seem to do alot of.

[MontyBurns]

Moore told the Speaker that he wasn't looking at what the NDP said he was and that he would never bring disrespect to the House that way. THEN later he says it was his girlfriend in the pictures. It doesn't matter WHO it was the pictures weren't meant for the House of Commons! If he is so innocent why get rid of the laptop?? I only get angry when I see lies being told and the spinning of those lies in this government, which they seem to do alot of.

What are you defending the NDP and the feminists?

[BubberMiley]

Political correctness is a feature of the Left: all symbol, no substance.

So the Reverend Wright controversy is generated from the left? I think there are people on the right who are considerate of other people as well. You just don't see them in this forum.

[Argus]

You think that gay bashing should be a hate crime and that gays and lesbians should be allowed to marry?

I think that beating up people ought to be a crime, no matter the reason. If the Liberals hadn't done their very best to prevent such violent people from being punished over the past twenty five years it would be hard for even you to justify a unique crime for beating up gays.

[Argus]

These are arguments against any hate crime legislation. However, Harper does not oppose hate crime legislation when it's based on religion, race or ethnicity. If he opposed all hate crime legislation, he'd merely be taking the libertarian position. But he specifically opposed hate crime legislation in reference to lesbians and gays.

In point of fact he opposes hate "thought crime" against gays, in that it criminalizes anti-gay statements which could be religiously based. The fear is, of course, that a pastor or priest who reads something from the bible which condemns gays could be arrested.

[normanchateau]

I'd forgotten about the Harper/Robinson comment.. so classy this party!!!

So they believe the matter is closed, good.

Harper apologized to Robinson for his homophobic comments:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2002/10/23/...act_021023.html

No doubt Harper's apology was about as sincere as Lukiwski's. That the Conservatives made Harper leader AFTER he made these homophobic comments shows how seriously his party view such comments.

I think in Harperland, racist comments are verboten but homophobic comments are merely "politically incorrect". Does Harper seriously believe that bigotry does not include homophobia?

[scribblet]

In point of fact he opposes hate "thought crime" against gays, in that it criminalizes anti-gay statements which could be religiously based. The fear is, of course, that a pastor or priest who reads something from the bible which condemns gays could be arrested.

As we know, Harper and the party is not against gays nor does it accept anti-gay statements, but does or should support freedom of speech. It is too bad that Canadians do not have the same 1st amendment rights as in the U.S.

Personally I think we should give the guy the benefit of the doubt, there are many people who have made statements they would regret later. This is simply being used for partisan and political expediency, he should not have to step down over something he said 17 years ago and has now apologized for.

[MontyBurns]

Harper apologized to Robinson for his homophobic comments:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2002/10/23/...act_021023.html

No doubt Harper's apology was about as sincere as Lukiwski's. That the Conservatives made Harper leader AFTER he made these homophobic comments shows how seriously his party view such comments.

I think in Harperland, racist comments are verboten but homophobic comments are merely "politically incorrect". Does Harper seriously believe that bigotry does not include homophobia?

It's only a few minor comments. Don't worry your gay friends will get over it.

[BubberMiley]

As we know, Harper and the party is not against gays nor does it accept anti-gay statements, but does or should support freedom of speech. It is too bad that Canadians do not have the same 1st amendment rights as in the U.S.

Give me a break. He's not being locked up for his statements. He's being held to account for them. If he had said something the average Tory actually found offensive, you wouldn't be claiming his freedom of speech was being sacrificed. It's only because your first statement that the party is not against gays is false that you would even make that claim.

Edited April 4, 2008 by BubberMiley

[normanchateau]

it criminalizes anti-gay statements which could be religiously based. The fear is, of course, that a pastor or priest who reads something from the bible which condemns gays could be arrested.

Yes, I'm well-aware that bible thumpers support Harper's irrational fears and delusions.

I gather your point is that Harper's opposition to making it a hate crime to advocate or promote the killing of gays and lesbians is mediated by religious fears and extremism rather than homophobia.

Why do you suppose the Liberals, NDP, BQ and many Progressive Conservatives, Peter MacKay included, did not have these irrational fears?

[scribblet]

Give me a break. He's not being locked up for his statements. He's being held to account for them. If he had said something the average Tory actually found offensive, you wouldn't be claiming his freedom of speech was being sacrificed. It's only because your first statement that the party is not against gays is false that you would even make that claim.

Held to account for something said 17 years ago which he has apologized for... the CPC is NOT against gays, thats just another drive by smear. It was offensive, but he has apologized, but Ièm sure if a Liberal had said it, the apology would be accepted, but because he is a conservative they want blood.

Many people have made a huge turnaround on this topic over the last number of years, so why is so difficult to believe this guy is any differentÉ - because they found an old tape - so what! He has apologized so move on. (but we know they wonèt until they have made the most political mileage they can out of it.

There are people who are still against changing the definition of marriage, including Liberals, that does not make them ‘against gays’

added: apologies for the keyboard problems, it somehow has changed to French and I canèt get it back...

Edited April 4, 2008 by scriblett

[mikedavid00]

Personally I think we should give the guy the benefit of the doubt, there are many people who have made statements they would regret later. This is simply being used for partisan and political expediency, he should not have to step down over something he said 17 years ago and has now apologized for.

While I agree,

I feel that under the current political situation for the Conservatives, right now, he should do the right thing for the party and step down which will do nothing but enhance the image of the party. If not, Harper should toss him out and hold a news confrence so the story can die. John Kerry did it for his party (comments about not going to school and you 'end up in Iraq')

Remember that time Harper didn't show up for that HIV confrence in Toronto and the party got all these labels of being homophobic and such? All that because he said he had other obligations and didn't attend a special intrest confrence. The CBC and mainstreme media fuled a lot of it.

The same is happening agian. This time the news is bigger and the 'common person' in Canada is aware of this situation which isn't a good thing.

It's about leadership and integrity for the party.

[scribblet]

While I agree,

I feel that under the current political situation for the Conservatives, right now, he should do the right thing for the party and step down which will do nothing but enhance the image of the party. If not, Harper should toss him out and hold a news confrence so the story can die. John Kerry did it for his party (comments about not going to school and you 'end up in Iraq')

Remember that time Harper didn't show up for that HIV confrence in Toronto and the party got all these labels of being homophobic and such? All that because he said he had other obligations and didn't attend a special intrest confrence. The CBC and mainstreme media fuled a lot of it.

The same is happening agian. This time the news is bigger and the 'common person' in Canada is aware of this situation which isn't a good thing.

It's about leadership and integrity for the party.

Possibly, but I bet no other party would be held to the same yardstick as the CPC.

[BubberMiley]

Held to account for something said 17 years ago which he has apologized for... the CPC is NOT against gays, thats just another drive by smear. It was offensive, but he has apologized, but Ièm sure if a Liberal had said it, the apology would be accepted, but because he is a conservative they want blood.

I guess since you realized the freedom of speech defence was ridiculous, you revert back to the "it was 16 years" ago argument.

[normanchateau]

I guess since you realized the freedom of speech defence was ridiculous, you revert back to the "it was 16 years" ago argument.

I wonder what the statute of limitations for bigotry is among Harper supporters? Harper made his homophobic comments, which he apologized for, in 2002.

[mikedavid00]

Possibly, but I bet no other party would be held to the same yardstick as the CPC.

That's the problem. They are treated very, very unfairly by the media here in Canada which is lead by the CBC.

Remember when Lebanon happened and people were freaking out becaue there wasn't sandwiches being served on the ships? He was doing so well in the polls until that happened and the media launched assults against him. Ever since he supported Isreal he's never had the same populatiry.

Now this happens. It's like we just can't win. I'd like to see a poll taken next Monday on Conservative support after this.

I know it's not the Canadian 'way' to step down where there is smoke. But now is a good time to start and a perfect oppertunity to enhance the image of the party.

I'm disapointed in both Harper and Tom Lukiwski for not doing the right thing for the party seing as they are both politicians and understand the 'game'.

[normanchateau]

I'm disapointed in both Harper and Tom Lukiwski for not doing the right thing for the party seing as they are both politicians and understand the 'game'.

Finally, a Conservative supporter who believes that Harper should step down for the homophobic comments he made in the House of Commons in 2002. That is what you're saying, right?

[scribblet]

That's the problem. They are treated very, very unfairly by the media here in Canada which is lead by the CBC.

......

I'm disapointed in both Harper and Tom Lukiwski for not doing the right thing for the party seing as they are both politicians and understand the 'game'.

Yup... double standards when it comes to the CPC.. still I'm not sure that they should cave in, if he had said them more recently I would say yes.

We do expect our MPs to fess up but when they do and sincerely apologize, they still try to destroy them, out of malice, so what good is an apology or even contrition. He has learned a big lesson -- he deserves a break.

[BubberMiley]

We do expect our MPs to fess up but when they do and sincerely apologize, they still try to destroy them, out of malice, so what good is an apology or even contrition. He has learned a big lesson -- he deserves a break.

It just shows what kind of people they want in the party.