McGuinty Refuses to Raise the Drinking Age

[DrGreenthumb]

And in this you are wrong. you have the ass before the cart. It isn't prohibition that causes any of those...it's the huge amounts of MONEY that cause them. Youmight as well lobby for a gaurenteed alowance for all the good ending prohibition would do eliminating the cash cows...

So how much are gas, glue and solvents selling for on the black market there genius?

[Alta4ever]

So how much are gas, glue and solvents selling for on the black market there genius?

I'm not sure what's the going rate for meth?

[DrGreenthumb]

I'm not sure what's the going rate for meth?

That has no relevance to to the price of potential intoxicants that are not prohibited, but we all know you are just trying to distract.

Kind of like M Dancer avoiding my very simple straightforward questions. M dancer thinks thinks that he does not deserve to go to jail for smoking hash, but the person who he buys the hash from does? Either that or he thinks that oppressive drug laws are ok as long as the enforcement of them doesn't affect him personally. I just wish he would answer those simple questions. Connect those dots little Dancer.

You might as well admit prohibition is the only thing making these substances worth so much money.

[M.Dancer]

still avoiding answering those very simple questions, neat trick, learn it from Harper?

My guess is that you refuse to answer them because honest answers would prove me right. You refuse to think logically or are you incapable?

I don't answer stupid questions.

[M.Dancer]

You might as well admit prohibition is the only thing making these substances worth so much money.

You were high during economics class this week? Supply versus Demand makes the price high.

Single malt is legal. How much is a $750 Ml Bottle of 18 year old The Macallum these days?

Edited April 3, 2008 by M.Dancer

[oreodontist]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home

Ummmm...no. Parents can't follow their kids 24 hours a day and once a kid turns 19 he or she is definately going for a beer....or a shooter....or 21 shooters.

The first line of defense are the people who work in the industry, whether it's the LCBO, Brewers Retail or the waiters and waitresses....raise the age and they will see it is enforced, not parents.

I'm not even certain of the issue. What does it have to do with parents? An 18 year old is an adult. When I was 18 I was on reserve duty with the Canadian Forces in Syria.

Our nephew recently came from PEI to live with us here in Alberta. He just turned 18 so can walk into one of the 4 liquor stores within walking distance of our house. Some friends came over and we sent him at 11pm or so out for a sixpack. We started talking about the difference from our youth. Basically at 11 pm, if you were 18, you 'drove' with your frinds to the bootlegger and picked up a six pack. Chance are you all popped a beer in the car.

I doubt if a minimum drinking age of 18 or 19 or 21 makes much difference. Adulthood begins at 18 and an 18 year-old ca vote, drive, join the military, etc. If he has poor judgemnet at 18, I doubt if he'll have better judgement at 19 or 20.

Less government the better. In the case of alcohol and drug laws I doubt if prohibition of drugs to everyone and alcohol to young adults makes much of a positive impact. I've never touched a cigarette or illegal drug in my life and that choice has nothing to do with availability or legality. In theory restrictions might sound right, however they are hollow in the real world of young adults.

[eyeball]

Try and imagine for a minute that the government devoted as much time and money to denying you your weekend beers as they devote to denying us cannabis users our relaxant of choice? Makes the idea of a drinking liscence seem pretty tame by comparison.

The only way you are ever going to get conservatives to appreciate your cause is if they suffer the same consequences for the same behaviour. Hence my call for greater levels of government intrusion into their lives. Its kind of like rubbing a puppy's nose in its own shit.

[Alta4ever]

That has no relevance to to the price of potential intoxicants that are not prohibited, but we all know you are just trying to distract.

Kind of like M Dancer avoiding my very simple straightforward questions. M dancer thinks thinks that he does not deserve to go to jail for smoking hash, but the person who he buys the hash from does? Either that or he thinks that oppressive drug laws are ok as long as the enforcement of them doesn't affect him personally. I just wish he would answer those simple questions. Connect those dots little Dancer.

You might as well admit prohibition is the only thing making these substances worth so much money.

Obviously you don't get the humour, meth is cut with chemicals found under the sink.

[eyeball]

I'm not arguing with you, I agree that our laws relating to Cannabis use and possesion are absolutely ridiculous. Many times in the past I've wondered why a far more harmfull drug like alcohol is accepted when one that is far more benign like Cannabis is illegal. I remember reading quite some time ago that the prohibition was enacted due to economic reasons. As to the truth of what I read I really cant say, it did make a lot of sense though.

The economic reasons you allude to is that hemp would have cut deeply into the profits of coroprate economic interests that wanted to dominate the market for many of the products people wanted to make from hemp. These corporations lobbyied government officials to make hemp illegal. This explains why I think politicians, lobbyists, CEO's et cetera should be wired so we can monitor them and protect the public from any other ridiculous laws they might make.

As for you Mr Thermopyle, do you vote for political parties that uphold your principles of getting the government off the people's backs or do vote for parties that continue to throw people in jail for, as you put it, absolutely ridiculous reasons?

[eyeball]

There was a letter to the editor in the paper the other day in which a fellow suggested that the drinking age be lowered to 16 and the driving age be raised to 18. His reasoning was that a young person would then have a couple of years to learn about the effects of alcohol before they learn to drive.

I thought it was a good idea given that learner permits and new driver licences also come with some pretty hefty consequences for DUI.

[eyeball]

You are really lost...As I said, you suggested that the harm from drugs comes from prohibition. I corrctly pointed out substance abuse of legal crap still causes harm therefor your premise that prohibition causes the harm is wrong.

Let me put it this way, there is more than one source of harm from drugs. There is the societal harm from users and the havoc they cause on their lives and families and then there is the associated criminal aspects. You could argue that if it was fee the criminals would go elsewhere ( and that is a pipe dream)but here still remains the harm that people do to themselves.

Whether it is legal or not, potent weed will still be expensive and will still attact black market suppliers.

The problem with Morris is that he's a big L Liberal. He thinks the state should be responsible for choices people make, as evidenced in his concern for the harm that people do to themselves. Don't ask me how he manages to attract so many friends amongst conservatives with attitudes like this. That said conservatives as we've seen time and time again will sell out their principles for next to nothing and often to the lowest bidder.

It really is more relevant it is to look at the authoritarian/libertarian leanings of a person instead of their tilt along the right/left axis.

Edited April 3, 2008 by eyeball

[AngusThermopyle]

As for you Mr Thermopyle, do you vote for political parties that uphold your principles of getting the government off the people's backs or do vote for parties that continue to throw people in jail for, as you put it, absolutely ridiculous reasons?

Actually that is a good question, albeit one that lacks a conclusive answer. It has been my experience that you will never find one party that answers all of the needs of particular individuals. Given that factor I generally look for the party with the strongest leadership that will address the majority of my desires. Given those factors I don't vote any way in particular based on doctrine. Instead I vote based on the above factors and am not opposed to voting for the most suitable party.

Edited April 3, 2008 by AngusThermopyle

[Topaz]

You know what is wrong with today youth and drinking? They don't how HOW to drink, the think OK start drinking and see how many you can drink. They don`t seem to know that when an adult drinks , is NOT to get drunk. They think alcohol is the only liquid they should be drinking now that they are legal but a lot are not legal and parents don`t know whats going on behind their backs and this can always lead to a teen becoming an alcoholic which can run in families. I think the last year of high school they should have a open discussion among teens about the downfalls of life like alcohol, drugs, gambling etc to prepare them for college or university were a lot of drinking goes on. They realize that a person can drink too much and die of alcohol poisoning.

[Alta4ever]

You know what is wrong with today youth and drinking? They don't how HOW to drink, the think OK start drinking and see how many you can drink. They don`t seem to know that when an adult drinks , is NOT to get drunk. They think alcohol is the only liquid they should be drinking now that they are legal but a lot are not legal and parents don`t know whats going on behind their backs and this can always lead to a teen becoming an alcoholic which can run in families. I think the last year of high school they should have a open discussion among teens about the downfalls of life like alcohol, drugs, gambling etc to prepare them for college or university were a lot of drinking goes on. They realize that a person can drink too much and die of alcohol poisoning.

Youth from every generation act like this, as they get older some learn to drink responsiblely. You don't think they talk about alcohol and drugs in school? Out here the coarse was calm 20, but few took the information to heart. You will never stop it and you can't legislate, or regulate a stop to it, because you can't legislate common sense, (which few teens have much of).

[cybercoma]

Say they do raise the legal drinking age. If I'm a 19 year old in Ontario today, tomorrow they pass this law... all of a sudden something I was doing legally yesterday is now illegal today? Silly. Especially considering the legal age in most states is 21 and they have the same problems with kids drinking.

[M.Dancer]

Say they do raise the legal drinking age. If I'm a 19 year old in Ontario today, tomorrow they pass this law... all of a sudden something I was doing legally yesterday is now illegal today? Silly. Especially considering the legal age in most states is 21 and they have the same problems with kids drinking.

They also sell liquor in stores by clerks who don't give a hoot. One of the problems with our lower age is young americans crossing the border for a weekend of binge drinking...

[Alta4ever]

They also sell liquor in stores by clerks who don't give a hoot. One of the problems with our lower age is young americans crossing the border for a weekend of binge drinking...

Why is that our problem, they have custom agents at the boarder.

[Topaz]

Why is that our problem, they have custom agents at the boarder.

Why is it our problem because they drink until they are out of control and in Windsor ON, when the US kids started to go home they made people lives who lived in the area a living hell at 3AM and then they had to go to council to do something about the noise from these kids. So at the border, they start to call the parents and throw them in jail.

[Alta4ever]

Why is it our problem because they drink until they are out of control and in Windsor ON, when the US kids started to go home they made people lives who lived in the area a living hell at 3AM and then they had to go to council to do something about the noise from these kids. So at the border, they start to call the parents and throw them in jail.

Sounds like they had to pay the piper. Quit whining.

Edited April 5, 2008 by Alta4ever

[oreodontist]

Why is it our problem because they drink until they are out of control and in Windsor ON, when the US kids started to go home they made people lives who lived in the area a living hell at 3AM and then they had to go to council to do something about the noise from these kids. So at the border, they start to call the parents and throw them in jail.

So?

All 19 year olds in Ontario shouldn't be able to order a beer because of some local issue in Windsor? Laws should reflect the lowest denominator?

If we were to cherry pick negative examples of 'anything' in society, then everything would be banned.

[DrGreenthumb]

Youth from every generation act like this, as they get older some learn to drink responsiblely. You don't think they talk about alcohol and drugs in school? Out here the coarse was calm 20, but few took the information to heart. You will never stop it and you can't legislate, or regulate a stop to it, because you can't legislate common sense, (which few teens have much of).

I'm curious as to how you think prohibition of other intoxicants is going to work any better.

[Qwerty]

That is nonsense dude sorry. It is the Conservatives who feel they have the right to make laws that force their will on the rest of us, using the police as their hired thugs to imprison us for lifestyle choices that they disaprove of. See Homosexuals, see drug war, see immigrants

You think being forced to be liscened before you can drink alcohol is bad, try being imprisoned for just having a 12 pack in your fridge, or a mandatory minimum sentence of say six month for one beer making kit.

I used to buy all the tripe about the conservatives being for small government, until I opened my eyes and saw them for the fascist controllers they really are.

How would you like a government that gave the police the power to scan your house with a BIR camera(FLIR CAMERA PUN) as they fly over in a helicopter, and if they saw a cold zone the size of a case of beer they could get a warrant to search your house for beer? Then if they found some they could sieze your assets, put your kids in foster care and throw you in jail. Of course any more than 3 beers and you must be trafficking, so they get to take your new fishing boat that you saved up for over the last 5 years.

This is absolutely ridiculous and absurd...lol.

You're fear mongering and you know it. This would never even come close to being a reality.

For the record, the legal drinking age should be lowered, not raised.

When I was a kid it was 18 then was raised to 19 because of the school system going up to grade 13 with many 18 year olds but since grade 13 is no longer a reality ot should be lowered back down to 18 years old again.