In Ontario hourly wage goes up

[Topaz]

Today hourly wage is 8.75 hrly and I heard that by 2011 people want it to 11.00. I can't see how people can live on that and I wonder what you think people have to make, to have a house and kids?? Is it wrong for this generation to think they can have everything their parents have? I feel if the wages are low then how are people going to pay for hydro,gas, telephone water, taxes, food prices, like everything is going up and up. Some people are having to work 2-3 jobs to make ends meet and how long before their health shows the stress.

[M.Dancer]

Minimum wage for MPPs is now around 130K

...up around 36% this year.

[oreodontist]

How would raising the minimum wage help? Many of those minimum wage jobs would disappear and not be available at higher wages. Most minimun wage jobs are in retail, restaurants, service industries and seasonal work. Many small business people are on the edge of hiring another person or cutting a position or even closing their doors.

[margrace]

So what is the answer, we have a growing amount of people using food banks, we have people freezing to death in our streets. What do you people suggest, bring back work houses.

[M.Dancer]

So what is the answer, we have a growing amount of people using food banks, we have people freezing to death in our streets. What do you people suggest, bring back work houses.

Raising minimum wage won't help people who are not inclined to work.

Work houses would be a good start though for those who are fit and on welfare.

[oreodontist]

So what is the answer, we have a growing amount of people using food banks, we have people freezing to death in our streets. What do you people suggest, bring back work houses.

Solution? Why do you think that making the situation worse through a higher minimum wage is good? do you want the few remaining independent stores, restaurants, hotels, etc. to close their doors? Not every mom and pop corner store can compete with Walmart now so why do you need to make it even more impossible for them to eek out a living? They can barely afford 8.75 now to pay a cashier or stock boy. That cashier might be the difference between the owners working a 60 hour week instead of 70 to survive. Push them a tad further and the close the doors for good.

[White Doors]

If erasing poverty was as easy as raising the minimum wage, why stop at $11.00/hr? Heck, raise it to $30/hr and 'ban' poverty too while we are at it.

I should be in the NDP campaign headquarters doing strategy.

[From another nation in Canada]

Today hourly wage is 8.75 hrly and I heard that by 2011 people want it to 11.00. I can't see how people can live on that and I wonder what you think people have to make, to have a house and kids?? Is it wrong for this generation to think they can have everything their parents have? I feel if the wages are low then how are people going to pay for hydro,gas, telephone water, taxes, food prices, like everything is going up and up. Some people are having to work 2-3 jobs to make ends meet and how long before their health shows the stress.

Most of the minimum wage earners are teens or newcomers. The minimum wage job should be only considered as a temporary entry job and is not supposed to be taken as all life long. I understand that some people have to take it for a long time and stay in "work-poor". Then it is government's responsibility to subsidize them a little bit, such as tax break, or education credit which will help them to find higher pay jobs.

Raising hourly wage to 8.75 per hour is a very bad idea and raise to $11 will be a disaster to our economy. The minimum wage is designed to make people survive with food and shelter (just beyond survive level), so that they have chance to improve skills and find a decent job. It does not bring luxury to the earners, as you mentioned "Is it wrong for this generation to think they can have everything their parents have?"

[oreodontist]

If erasing poverty was as easy as raising the minimum wage, why stop at $11.00/hr? Heck, raise it to $30/hr and 'ban' poverty too while we are at it.

I should be in the NDP campaign headquarters doing strategy.

This is why these issues are so difficult to walk through. Simplistic solutions often ignore consequences. The Mom and Pop corner store doesn't pay Sally and Bob 8.75 because they are scrooges and insensitive to their needs as a person. They may be stretching their own budgets to provide these jobs. Raise the minimum wage for two employers 3 bucks an hour and that's about $50 more out of the store each day. $50 more they have to clear in profits. Already their can of soup costs 40 cents more than at the chain store and now they have to tack another 40 cents a can. Guess what? Nobody buys the soup and they close their doors. No job for Sally or Bob.

Multiply this by tens of thousands of individuals.

[White Doors]

This is why these issues are so difficult to walk through. Simplistic solutions often ignore consequences. The Mom and Pop corner store doesn't pay Sally and Bob 8.75 because they are scrooges and insensitive to their needs as a person. They may be stretching their own budgets to provide these jobs. Raise the minimum wage for two employers 3 bucks an hour and that's about $50 more out of the store each day. $50 more they have to clear in profits. Already their can of soup costs 40 cents more than at the chain store and now they have to tack another 40 cents a can. Guess what? Nobody buys the soup and they close their doors. No job for Sally or Bob.

Multiply this by tens of thousands of individuals.

Thanks Oreo, you missed my sarcasm. You are preaching to the choir here.

[Renegade]

Today hourly wage is 8.75 hrly and I heard that by 2011 people want it to 11.00. I can't see how people can live on that

I doubt that they are going to starve but no doubt the won't have the comforts many of us take for granted.

and I wonder what you think people have to make, to have a house and kids??

I guess it vares upon where they live and their expectations on the lifestyle they intend to live, but IMV someone on minimium wage should be focused on improving their employment choices and not have an expectation of a house or kids. They simply can't afford it.

Is it wrong for this generation to think they can have everything their parents have?

Possibly yes. Did their parents have everything they did while earning minimium wage? Did their parents live in an area of less popuation when land was cheap and nobody cared about the cost of polluting the environment or lived at time when social programs were financed by debt? Why exactly should each future generation expect a better and better lifestyle?

I feel if the wages are low then how are people going to pay for hydro,gas, telephone water, taxes, food prices, like everything is going up and up. Some people are having to work 2-3 jobs to make ends meet and how long before their health shows the stress.

Yes how indeed. That are all good questions that each person should be asking themselves as them make choices on where to live, and what career choice to embark on.

[Renegade]

So what is the answer, we have a growing amount of people using food banks, we have people freezing to death in our streets. What do you people suggest, bring back work houses.

The answer is for people to take responsiblity for their own career choices and underatake sufficient education and training so that they are in occupations which are in demand. The other part of the answer is for people is not to have kids which they can't afford.

[daniel]

The answer is for people to take responsiblity for their own career choices and underatake sufficient education and training so that they are in occupations which are in demand.

So the answer is to paint everybody with the same brush.

The other part of the answer is for people is not to have kids which they can't afford.

And in about 100 years, humankind will disappear from the face of the earth.

[oreodontist]

I doubt that they are going to starve but no doubt the won't have the comforts many of us take for granted.

I guess it vares upon where they live and their expectations on the lifestyle they intend to live, but IMV someone on minimium wage should be focused on improving their employment choices and not have an expectation of a house or kids. They simply can't afford it.

Possibly yes. Did their parents have everything they did while earning minimium wage? Did their parents live in an area of less popuation when land was cheap and nobody cared about the cost of polluting the environment or lived at time when social programs were financed by debt? Why exactly should each future generation expect a better and better lifestyle?

Yes how indeed. That are all good questions that each person should be asking themselves as them make choices on where to live, and what career choice to embark on.

Cripes. Stop spouting common sense.

Folks expect to maintain a lifestyle or be entitled to a lifestyle without investing in it. When things don't pan out due to either not being responsible or unexpected circumstance they play the 'victim'.

"There's no good paying jobs"...well pack your suitcase and move. Millions of Canadians have moved to where the jobs are.

"I lost my job and can't feed myself"....did you save up your money in case you one day lost your job. Scrimp and save every penny until you had a cushion to get through hard times or relocate?

The victims will wallow in self pity while the vast majority of Canadians will own their own home and earn much more than the minimum wage.

[Renegade]

So the answer is to paint everybody with the same brush.

No. Everyone can usethe brush and colour of paint of their own choosing, because they are expected to paint themselves.

And in about 100 years, humankind will disappear from the face of the earth.

I suppose if NOBODY could afford kids that woudl be true. Many however can afford to have kids and mother nature has ensured that they also have the desire to have kids so the scenario that "humankind will disappear from the face of the earth" is unlikely in the extreme.

I would venture that humankind is more likely go disappear from existance due to the excesses of having too many kids, than the risks of people not having kids.

[Topaz]

So could the answer be for education be made free or at half price for individuals, with the provincial and feds picking up the tab? Make welfare a thing of the past, which it would be if everyone went to college or university or had apprenticeships were available. I know in my area we need plumbers, electricians but business don't want to do it because they say they train the people and when they are done they take off and the business loses their help. Both government would get their money back through working and paying all the taxes working people pay.

[M.Dancer]

So could the answer be for education be made free or at half price for individuals, with the provincial and feds picking up the tab?

Education is free until post secondary and at that point the fed and provincial gov'ts subsidise already ...probably to the tune of 50% if you judge what US students pay for tuition.

$16,500 US per year for Penn State...

[oreodontist]

Education is free until post secondary and at that point the fed and provincial gov'ts subsidise already ...probably to the tune of 50% if you judge what US students pay for tuition.

$16,500 US per year for Penn State...

It varies from province to province but education is subsidized at about 75% of cost. A bit higher in Quebec. The U. of Alberta is 78% subsidized. At this rate millions of Canadians have attended secondary institutions. The answer isn't to sit around waiting for the governmnet to do more but take personal responsibility.

[M.Dancer]

It varies from province to province but education is subsidized at about 75% of cost. A bit higher in Quebec. The U. of Alberta is 78% subsidized. At this rate millions of Canadians have attended secondary institutions. The answer isn't to sit around waiting for the governmnet to do more but take personal responsibility.

Which is why we have RESPs for our children.

A friend of mine's son wanted to become a digital artist. He looked around a found some programmes and he got the info showed his mom and dad. The Mom called her parents telling them that their grandson wanted to go to ryerson, would they pay....they said no so the boy went for a semester at one of the community colleges...which will give him zero credentials in the real world. I said to them, didn't you start a savings plan for the kids? No they said, they always assumed the grand parents would pay....

[oreodontist]

Which is why we have RESPs for our children.

A friend of mine's son wanted to become a digital artist. He looked around a found some programmes and he got the info showed his mom and dad. The Mom called her parents telling them that their grandson wanted to go to ryerson, would they pay....they said no so the boy went for a semester at one of the community colleges...which will give him zero credentials in the real world. I said to them, didn't you start a savings plan for the kids? No they said, they always assumed the grand parents would pay....

My wife and I both paid our own way. Gave both of us a better work ethic in which to face the world. I remember when I first came to Calgary to run the geology lab at the university. I kept seeing all these parking lots full of cars and wondered what they were for. Turns out it was student parking. Student parking? I think I was inside a car 2 or 3 times the whole time I went to university. Not only did no one have a car, we used to get two subway transfers and split the cost of the city bus fare....survival 101

[M.Dancer]

My wife and I both paid our own way. Gave both of us a better work ethic in which to face the world. I remember when I first came to Calgary to run the geology lab at the university. I kept seeing all these parking lots full of cars and wondered what they were for. Turns out it was student parking. Student parking? I think I was inside a car 2 or 3 times the whole time I went to university. Not only did no one have a car, we used to get two subway transfers and split the cost of the city bus fare....survival 101

How long ago was that?

When I was a student, cegep cost $28 a year and a years tuition at Mcgill was $850...

I don't expect my daughter will have the 40,000 she will need by 2018....so we save now. Now if someone would propose a tax amendment allowing resps to be tax deductable.....i bet there will still be parents more concerned with buying pot than saving...

[Renegade]

So could the answer be for education be made free or at half price for individuals, with the provincial and feds picking up the tab?

Why? The primary beneficiary of the education is the recepient. They should consider it an investment in themselves which will pay back in the incomes they will receive. IMV, it is the combined responsibility of the individual and the parents to make themselves valuable so that they derive future income. The responsibility of the individual is to actively consume the education and then together with the parents pay for the educational investment.

I also assume you mean education which is specificly applicable to a career which generates employment income. An education which doesn't result in a valueable skill, is economically, a waste of money.

Make welfare a thing of the past, which it would be if everyone went to college or university or had apprenticeships were available.

It requires more. It also requires picking a career choice which provides skills of value and it requires adapability as conditions change so that the individual still remains of value as the skills they once learned becomes obsolete.

I know in my area we need plumbers, electricians but business don't want to do it because they say they train the people and when they are done they take off and the business loses their help.

So that indicates that investing in training is not valuable for a business because it cannot guarantee they can retain the asset they invest in. The army has a program where they pay for education costs in return to an enforcable commitment of service. Such an option is not available to business under employment law. Maybe if restrictions were removed so that businesses were able to offer and enforce long-term employment cotracts, they would be more willing to invest in the training of future employees.

Both government would get their money back through working and paying all the taxes working people pay.

Isn't a mechanism by which the government gets its money back, called a "loan"? Educational loans are available today. Unless the individuals who consume the subsidized education are somehow paying more taxes than those who did not, they are not paying the government back for the cost of education and training.

[gc1765]

It varies from province to province but education is subsidized at about 75% of cost. A bit higher in Quebec. The U. of Alberta is 78% subsidized. At this rate millions of Canadians have attended secondary institutions. The answer isn't to sit around waiting for the governmnet to do more but take personal responsibility.

I've argued this before, but I doubt the government subsidizes post-secondary education because most of the resources in a University go towards research. For example, the University pays the salary of a professor (and therefore is indirectly paid for by students), yet professors spend the majority of their time doing research.

[oreodontist]

I've argued this before, but I doubt the government subsidizes post-secondary education because most of the resources in a University go towards research. For example, the University pays the salary of a professor (and therefore is indirectly paid for by students), yet professors spend the majority of their time doing research.

huh?

That's why it's a 'university' and not Bob's saloon that holds a lecture once a week. When you purchase a product or service you don't just pay for the ingredients. there's a reason a car costs 20 thousand and not 3 thousand.

'Gee, I just want to pay for the raw material'

[WIP]

So could the answer be for education be made free or at half price for individuals, with the provincial and feds picking up the tab? Make welfare a thing of the past, which it would be if everyone went to college or university or had apprenticeships were available. I know in my area we need plumbers, electricians but business don't want to do it because they say they train the people and when they are done they take off and the business loses their help. Both government would get their money back through working and paying all the taxes working people pay.

Education was dirt cheap back in the 70's when I was in school. In fact, it was too cheap. In 76, I took a break from my job in a machine shop to take a General Business- Accounting program. The tuition was only $295.00 for both semesters; and that was the problem! It was just a glorified high school with a bunch of kids who couldn't get jobs and were made to stay in school by their parents, so they wouldn't hang around the house all day. We were informed by a straight-talking instructor in the first month that if any of us had a serious intention of seeking a career in accounting, we needed to quit and save our money for university, so that we would be eligible to write the C.A. exam and be more than minimum wage book-keepers. So, I decided I would be better off going back to working with my hands.

I agree with you that today, the cost of education is too high, but if staying in school becomes too cheap, colleges and universities will be filled with a bunch of educated bums who end up going back to their restaurant and clerk jobs after they graduate.