Assimilation vs. Integration

[Leafless]

In Canada we do not demand assimmilation, but is this a good thing.

How can it be a good thing when we allow masses of different cultures to thrive (partially integrate) knowing full well this is destroying Canadian nationalism and a unified Canadian identity and our majority Canadian Western culture.

Allowing un-Western type ethnic immigrants to reside in Canada with their (in varing degrees) volatile political baggage and indifferent and sometimes troublesome devisive culture IMO is inviting cultural destruction, relating to MAINTAINING our majority pro Western culture.

I fully believe integration rather than assimilation in this country, is favoured by government to appease the perceived normality of Canada harbouring two devisive English/French cultures. This is accomplished under the guise of multiculturalism, but at the humiliating expense, of the destruction of our Western, English speaking Canadian culture.

[MontyBurns]

This is accomplished under the guise of multiculturalism, but at the humiliating expense, of the destruction of our Western, English speaking Canadian culture.

I think this particular group is starting to wake up to this fact.

[August1991]

I fully believe integration rather than assimilation in this country, is favoured by government to appease the perceived normality of Canada harbouring two devisive English/French cultures. This is accomplished under the guise of multiculturalism, but at the humiliating expense, of the destruction of our Western, English speaking Canadian culture.

Why the divisiveness of Canada itself?

Would it not be better for the English-speaking Western world if Canada joined the Unisted States and North America had one, single culture and language?

Leafless, do you advocate that Canada assimilate or integrate into the US?

[Leafless]

Why the divisiveness of Canada itself?

We are talking assimilation/integration relating to Canada, that's why.

Would it not be better for the English-speaking Western world if Canada joined the Unisted States and North America had one, single culture and language?

Cultural problems are common both to Canada and the U.S.

I think though in Canada's case, major cultural problems were self induced by corrupt political parties.

Leafless, do you advocate that Canada assimilate or integrate into the US?

You must be foreign to the fact that Canada already has been assimilated by U.S. culture.

[Leafless]

I think this particular group is starting to wake up to this fact.

Many of us have been awake for just as long a period of time as yourself.

[Leafless]

The mentality around here is astounding.

A very important issue involving the improper integration of immigrants, affecting the future of Canada, gets sidetracked by a U.S. soldier throwing a puppy off a cliff.

Unbelievable.

If it were not for irresponsible and corrupt politicians and free flowing tax money, immigrants would be White, English speaking and compatible with Western culture and ideologies.

[AngusThermopyle]

A very important issue involving the improper integration of immigrants, affecting the future of Canada, gets sidetracked by a U.S. soldier throwing a puppy off a cliff.

Nope, it sure did not. No puppies in this thread, the puppy has his own thread.

[charter.rights]

The mentality around here is astounding.

A very important issue involving the improper integration of immigrants, affecting the future of Canada, gets sidetracked by a U.S. soldier throwing a puppy off a cliff.

Unbelievable.

If it were not for irresponsible and corrupt politicians and free flowing tax money, immigrants would be White, English speaking and compatible with Western culture and ideologies.

Your original premise is wrong IMO, in that you assume that the WASP male is the only founding member of Canadian society, and that immigrants must somehow adapt to that mentality to be part of the Canadian fabric. If that were true there would be no enclaves for immigrants in our towns and foreigners would come here trying to emulate a western yawl in their voices.

The reason IMO that immigrants do come to Canada is that they can participate in the western economy AND maintain their cultural identity. If they wanted to assimilate, (as if Canadian society is a superior ideology..which it is not IMO) then they could emigrate to the US and lose themselves there. Instead they are guaranteed their cultural base under the Charter (in that no one can discriminate against them on the basis of that culture or creed or race) and therefore can become "Canadian" without having to subject themselves to that poorly identified and somewhat ethereal culture.

This has nothing to do with corrupt and tax-throwing politicians, which in itself is a red herring to your arguments. It is the "Canadian way" that exists not only in spite of incompetent politicians but also in spite of blue bloods who think they built and therefore own this country and who far too many times are too ignorant to realize that Canada was built on the backs of immigrants while the lazy WASPs for the most part sat on their butts while it all took place.

[Leafless]

Your original premise is wrong IMO, in that you assume that the WASP male is the only founding member of Canadian society

In my terminology there are no founding members of Canada but rather 'victors' and in that sense, it is only the British that won Canada and no one else.

But in saying this and in reference to your logic, there is no revelence to WASP as Anglo-Saxons, since all Anglo-Saxons are primarily all White initially and in Canada can be characterized rather as being White Christians.

This of course is what the Majority of Canadians are in relationship to founding immigrants.

...and that immigrants must somehow adapt to that mentality to be part of the Canadian fabric.

You of course are referring to cultures other the Anglo-Saxon race (White race) and in this country why should non Anglo-Saxon immigrants not freely assimilate to the concerns of the majority culture.

If that were true there would be no enclaves for immigrants in our towns and foreigners would come here trying to emulate a western yawl in their voices.

Why you would promote ghetto type segregation for non-White immigrants which amounts to promoting racism?

The reason IMO that immigrants do come to Canada is that they can participate in the western economy AND maintain their cultural identity.

Why come to Canada if they want to retain their foreign culture to that degree.

Canadians do not want perpetual forigners.

If they wanted to assimilate, (as if Canadian society is a superior ideology..which it is not IMO)

Obviously Canada does offer a superior (advanced culture) or immgrants would not want to immigrate here.

...then they could emigrate to the US and lose themselves there. Instead they are guaranteed their cultural base under the Charter (in that no one can discriminate against them on the basis of that culture or creed or race) and therefore can become "Canadian" without having to subject themselves to that poorly identified and somewhat ethereal culture.

Discrimination exist all over Canada, Whites included and there is no way anyone is going to eliminate discrimination.

Show me where the Charter guarantees a cultural base?

There is no government in there right mind that would promote a cultural dysfuctional country, although I must say the feds have been leaning in that direction relating to home grown solitudes.

But relating to new foreign immigrants the federal government certaintly desires immigrants assimilating with the majority culture, even though it cannot define its own definiton of what integration means.

This has nothing to do with corrupt and tax-throwing politicians, which in itself is a red herring to your arguments. It is the "Canadian way" that exists not only in spite of incompetent politicians but also in spite of blue bloods who think they built and therefore own this country and who far too many times are too ignorant to realize that Canada was built on the backs of immigrants while the lazy WASPs for the most part sat on their butts while it all took place.

To bad you are so intolerant of redundant immigrant WASP, who if developed the policies that Quebec currently flourishes by, we would all be OFFICIALLY WASP.

[M.Dancer]

In 1901 the census counted canada's pop was 5,371,315. Of that amount 42 came from the British Isles. Of that number a sizable amount came from the Non WASP parts of the UK, namely Scotland and Ireland.....

To wit, to say this is an anglo saxon nation is factually wrong.

[HisSelf]

In Canada we do not demand assimmilation, but is this a good thing.

How can it be a good thing when we allow masses of different cultures to thrive (partially integrate) knowing full well this is destroying Canadian nationalism and a unified Canadian identity and our majority Canadian Western culture.

Allowing un-Western type ethnic immigrants to reside in Canada with their (in varing degrees) volatile political baggage and indifferent and sometimes troublesome devisive culture IMO is inviting cultural destruction, relating to MAINTAINING our majority pro Western culture.

I fully believe integration rather than assimilation in this country, is favoured by government to appease the perceived normality of Canada harbouring two devisive English/French cultures. This is accomplished under the guise of multiculturalism, but at the humiliating expense, of the destruction of our Western, English speaking Canadian culture.

Why is it that Canada has to be a Western, English speaking culture? What evidence do you have that this is what would be best for us?

I look at Europe and I see polyglot countries like Holland, Denmark, etc. and I see them doing very well with far less resources than we have. Holland for crying out loud! This is a country whose only major asset is adaptability. And look at them. Their companies span the globe. If China can model itself after Singapore, why can't we model ourselves after Holland?

[AngusThermopyle]

In 1901 the census counted canada's pop was 5,371,315. Of that amount 42 came from the British Isles

Are you sure only 42 came from the British Isles? Seems a bit low if you ask me.

[M.Dancer]

Are you sure only 42 came from the British Isles? Seems a bit low if you ask me.

...then add the french....yankees....

Census.(1) Of the 5,371,315 population in Canada, 684,671 (12.7%) were immigrants (i.e. born outside Canada). 57% of the immigrants were male. About a quarter of the immigrant population had arrived in the previous 5 years. 57% of immigrants were born in the British Isles, 19% in the U.S., 5% in Russia, 4% in Germany and 2.5% (17,043 people) in China. There were 4,674 people born in Japan, 1,222 people born in Syria, 357 people from Turkey, and 699 born in the West Indies. The only African country listed was South Africa (128 people). Of the 278,788 immigrants who were "foreign-born" (meaning born outside the British Empire), 55% were naturalized citizens. However, only 4% (668) of the Chinese-born were citizens. In terms of "origins", the census counted 17,437 "Negroes" in Canada. 42% of the population was of British origin, while 31% was of French origin. There were 16,131 Jews and 22,050 Chinese/Japanese (given as one category). 96% of the population was of European origin.

http://www.web.net/ccr/history.html

[M.Dancer]

.....of the British born in 1901 (3,063,514) 1,657,266 were not English

http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/11-5...na/sectiona.htm

[guyser]

.....of the British born in 1901 (3,063,514) 1,657,266 were not English

http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/11-5...na/sectiona.htm

How could that be true when an esteemed member said...

In my terminology there are no founding members of Canada but rather 'victors' and in that sense, it is only the British that won Canada and no one else.

How many languages did those Brits speak......and particularly why French?

[M.Dancer]

How could that be true when an esteemed member said...

How many languages did those Brits speak......and particularly why French?

The battle of the plains of abraham found both generals mortally wounded and dying. The negotiations for the terms of surrender fell to their aides de camp, who spoke to each other in their native tongue, which was Scots Gaelic.

[AngusThermopyle]

42% of the population was of British origin,

Ahh, 42%, now that makes way more sense than 42 coming from the British Isles!

[Leafless]

Why is it that Canada has to be a Western, English speaking culture? What evidence do you have that this is what would be best for us?

Our largest trading partner the U.S., a super power has done quite well with the Western English speaking culture and so have we.

For a country like Canada sandwiched between two oceans, the Atlantic and Pacific, and to the North, the Arctic region, with the U.S. to the South of us, coast to coast, Atlantic to Pacific oceans, makes any other alternative, relating to an alternate culture look silly.

What other evidence could one ask for?

BTW...where is your loyality to our form of government as a Constitutional Monarchy and a Parliamentry Democracy.

Certainly you know full well our country has a history to be proud of.

Edited March 19, 2008 by Leafless

[Leafless]

In 1901 the census counted canada's pop was 5,371,315. Of that amount 42 came from the British Isles. Of that number a sizable amount came from the Non WASP parts of the UK, namely Scotland and Ireland.....

To wit, to say this is an anglo saxon nation is factually wrong.

Relating to WASP, Canada is now considered primarily Anglo Saxon Christian as well as being part of the Anglosphere.

Historian Robert Conquest has also promoted the concept.[8] John Ibbitson of the Canadian newspaper The Globe and Mail identified five core English-speaking countries with common sociopolitical heritage and goals: Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglosphere

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Anglo-Saxon_Protestant

[Melanie_]

Our largest trading partner the U.S., a super power has done quite well with the Western English speaking culture and so have we.

For a country like Canada sandwiched between two oceans and to the North, the Arctic, with the U.S. to the West of us, coast to coast, makes any other alternative, relating to an alternate culture look silly.

What other evidence could one ask for?

BTW...where is your loyality to our form of government as a Constitutional Monarchy and a Parliamentry Democracy.

Certainly you know full well our country has a history to be proud of.

I'm trying to figure out your geography - the US is to the west of us? We are sandwiched between 2 oceans - which one are you discarding, the Atlantic, the Pacific, or the Arctic? And are you claiming that, because we are east (?) of the US, we need to mirror their culture - we can't carve out a culture all our own?

Being proud of the history of our country doesn't mean clinging to the past.

[charter.rights]

Our largest trading partner the U.S., a super power has done quite well with the Western English speaking culture and so have we.

For a country like Canada sandwiched between two oceans and to the North, the Arctic, with the U.S. to the West of us, coast to coast, makes any other alternative, relating to an alternate culture look silly.

What other evidence could one ask for?

BTW...where is your loyality to our form of government as a Constitutional Monarchy and a Parliamentry Democracy.

Certainly you know full well our country has a history to be proud of.

You're not realistic at all....

native genocide, with more than 50,000 dead missing children's blood on the hands of government and churches; Japanese internment during WWII, stealing their land and livelihood because of racial fear; stealing the Dionne quintuplets and putting them on public display for profit; land rape and pollutionthat makes the Love Canal look like a small oil spill compared to us; the boys of St John who became the sexual playthings of perverted priests....these are the historical legacy of Canada, the Canadian government and its people. And these not isolated either since they could as easily happen today as they did in the last 100 years IF the perpetrators believed they wouldn't be caught....

There are lots of reasons for not wanting to assimilate into Canadian society. The first and most important is that there really is no such thing as "Canadian culture". Second is that Canadians are generally speaking very lazy and inept people. Third the country wasn't built by WASPs but it was uncovered, cleared and built by immigrants. The WASPs came along after and stole if from them by hook or by crook. In my view there is nothing to make Canadians anything more than some mythical characters in a fantasy movie about Groundhog Day repeating itself over and over again. Most immigrant cultures are what make Canada unique and attractive.

Edited March 19, 2008 by charter.rights

[capricorn]

There are lots of reasons for not wanting to assimilate into Canadian society.

By your admission, these reasons are rooted in the transgressions of our ancestors. The notion of multiculturalism is passed on to the waves of immigrants coming into our country. In the long run, I don't think this will be healthy and will lead to a future conflict.

The first and most important is that there really is no such thing as "Canadian culture".

This I fear is quite true. The primordial question being "What does it mean to be Canadian?" Answer: "Huh, dunno." Hence, the concept that there is no true Canadian identity will become ingrained. This will weaken Canada.

Second is that Canadians are generally speaking very lazy and inept people.

Personally, I challenge this statement. Is this merely your opinion or do you have facts to back up this statement. Seeing as we are a nation of immigrants, aren't you in fact saying that immigrants are inherently lazy and inept?

Third the country wasn't built by WASPs but it was uncovered, cleared and built by immigrants.

So...Canadians are not inept.

The WASPs came along after and stole if from them by hook or by crook.

At one point, WASPs formed the greater part of immigrants to this country. There was a time when it was survival of the fittest and the most clever.

In my view there is nothing to make Canadians anything more than some mythical characters in a fantasy movie about Groundhog Day repeating itself over and over again. Most immigrant cultures are what make Canada unique and attractive.

You said Canada has no identity. Now you also say immigrants make Canada what it is. Therefore, I take it you blame immigrants for the fact that Canada has no identity. Would you care to clarify your thoughts or are you just very confused over the whole issue?

[Peter F]

I say we hold a referendum.

Question: Should all Canadians become White Anglo-Saxon Christians with the following exceptions

1) Non-white's excepted from becoming white.

2) Non-Anglo-Saxons excepted from becoming Anglo-saxon

3) Non-christians excepted from becoming Christian

YES ______

NO ______

[M.Dancer]

Relating to WASP, Canada is now considered primarily Anglo Saxon Christian as well as being part of the Anglosphere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglosphere

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Anglo-Saxon_Protestant

You seem confused about what an anglophone is and what an anglo saxon is.

[guyser]

You seem confused

Fixed it for you.