Tories Contradict Themselves on Death Penalty

[jdobbin]

http://canadianpress.google.com/article/AL...eRWGkBFrRDI3I8A

An overwhelming majority of Conservatives supported a Liberal motion on the death penalty this week that opposition MPs say directly contradicts the government's refusal to seek clemency for a Canadian on death row in the United States.

The motion, from Liberal MP Irwin Cotler, called on the House of Commons to declare that the government "should stand consistently against the death penalty, as a matter of principle, both in Canada and around the world."

The motion drew support from 96 Conservative MPs, including senior cabinet ministers, to easily pass by a vote of 255-17 - and go unheralded in an otherwise hectic day on Parliament Hill.

Cotler, a former Liberal justice minister and law professor, made a point of referring to Ronald Allen Smith, a former Alberta man awaiting execution in Montana and the only Canadian citizen currently on death row in the U.S.

The Tory government has refused to seek clemency on behalf of Smith, a break with long-standing Canadian policy, and instead says it will approach capital punishment abroad for convicted Canadians on a "case-by-case basis."

Liberal and New Democrat MPs said the Conservative vote in favour of Cotler's motion - which is an expression of the opinions of MPs, and has no bearing on government actions - is embarrassing for Prime Minister Stephen Harper.

The Tories have a contradictory policy on the death penalty and it is now becoming obvious that many in his own party don't like it.

[Wilber]

They do seem to be making it up as they go along.

[capricorn]

Cotler's motion was good and principled. It's nice to see parliamentarians agree on something.

I think Canada should seek clemency on behalf of the double murderer Smith. Just don't bring him here to serve his life sentence. He's more likely to serve his full sentence in the States.

[jdobbin]

Cotler's motion was good and principled. It's nice to see parliamentarians agree on something.

I think Canada should seek clemency on behalf of the double murderer Smith. Just don't bring him here to serve his life sentence. He's more likely to serve his full sentence in the States.

Wish Day and Harper felt the same way.

[MontyBurns]

Cotler's motion was good and principled. It's nice to see parliamentarians agree on something.

I think Canada should seek clemency on behalf of the double murderer Smith. Just don't bring him here to serve his life sentence. He's more likely to serve his full sentence in the States.

I love how Canadians want to go to bat for a double murderer. They dont think about the victims. Human rights of a scumbug criminal reign supreme. They should fry that bugger in the electric chair.

[jdobbin]

I love how Canadians want to go to bat for a double murderer. They dont think about the victims. Human rights of a scumbug criminal reign supreme. They should fry that bugger in the electric chair.

I guess you'll have to find another party after the majority of Tories opposed the death penalty yesterday.

[jazzer]

I love how Canadians want to go to bat for a double murderer. They dont think about the victims. Human rights of a scumbug criminal reign supreme. They should fry that bugger in the electric chair.

I love how Monty changes the subject so swiftly. Gee, what was that topic again? At least the conservatives are consistent; consistently shifting positions that is.

Edited March 14, 2008 by jazzer

[Argus]

I guess you'll have to find another party after the majority of Tories opposed the death penalty yesterday.

And I guess you Liberals will have to find some other reason to label the tories as extremists.

[jdobbin]

And I guess you Liberals will have to find some other reason to label the tories as extremists.

I didn't say extremists. I said that they had a contradictory policy on this important issue and it seems one that doesn't sit well with their own MPs.

I guess you Conservatives will just have to dig yourself out of the mess you created for yourselves with a lack of consistency on the death penalty.

Edited March 14, 2008 by jdobbin

[MontyBurns]

I guess you'll have to find another party after the majority of Tories opposed the death penalty yesterday.

Canada seems to want to support murderers. Let's bring this Smith guy back to Canada and cuddle him so that he feels loved and his human rights are respected.

[guyser]

Canada seems to want to support murderers. Let's bring this Smith guy back to Canada and cuddle him so that he feels loved and his human rights are respected.

Actually nobody wants to support murderers. And no one wants to cuddle him.

What a ridiculous notion. But hardly surprising.

I got an idea, why dont you post , for the third time in this thread, that Canada wants to support murderers, or coddle them. I figure by the third time posting with the same message even YOU might believe it.

[MontyBurns]

Actually nobody wants to support murderers. And no one wants to cuddle him.

What a ridiculous notion. But hardly surprising.

I got an idea, why dont you post , for the third time in this thread, that Canada wants to support murderers, or coddle them. I figure by the third time posting with the same message even YOU might believe it.

Ok. For the third time, let's go easy on these guys. After all, murderers are people too.

[guyser]

Ok. For the third time, let's go easy on these guys.

Why would you want to do that? I think "life" is a good sentence

After all, murderers are people too.

who knew?

[eyeball]

I love how Canadians want to go to bat for a double murderer. They dont think about the victims. Human rights of a scumbug criminal reign supreme. They should fry that bugger in the electric chair.

Canadians, are going to bat for the idea that capital punishment is wrong.

In 1976, capital punishment was removed from Canada's Criminal Code. After years of debate, Parliament decided that capital punishment was not an appropriate penalty. The reasons for this decision were due to the possibility of wrongful convictions, concerns about the state taking the lives of individuals, and uncertainty as to the effectiveness of the death penalty as a deterrent.

Source

I suspect Parliament didn't spend too much time debating whether capital punishment should be based on Canada's thirst for vindictive vengence.

By the way are you an immigrant from Tora Bora or something?

[Oleg Bach]

Ok. For the third time, let's go easy on these guys. After all, murderers are people too.

Anyone who murders is actually murdering themselves socially and spiritually..they have forfeited their lives already and for all intent and purpose are walking dead..and secondly -All those that support the death penalty are usually those that are quietly capable of committing murder AND thirdly - those that release murderers or potential murders on bail...are enforceing a harrassment policy and find pleasure in having a postion of authority in society where they can bring malevolence against the people..the whole thing stinks all around...no one is pure or good or sinless...killing is bad - Peroid.

[jdobbin]

Canada seems to want to support murderers. Let's bring this Smith guy back to Canada and cuddle him so that he feels loved and his human rights are respected.

No, Canada is against the death penalty as a punishment for Canadian citizens. In our own country's case, it has saved a lot of people who could have potentially been executed for murder who later turned out to be innocent.

[MontyBurns]

No, Canada is against the death penalty as a punishment for Canadian citizens. In our own country's case, it has saved a lot of people who could have potentially been executed for murder who later turned out to be innocent.

I don't mean execute everything that moves. But in certain cases it seems justified like Robert Pickton for example. Canada should probably do it on a case by case basis. Same with seeking clemency abroad. If they have committed gross crimes then fry the buggers IMO.

[Oleg Bach]

No, Canada is against the death penalty as a punishment for Canadian citizens. In our own country's case, it has saved a lot of people who could have potentially been executed for murder who later turned out to be innocent.

Canada has an occultish policy of jailing innocent people and releasing wicked killers to create more mayhem. Much like the Vatican that has a quiet age old policy on social control of males via destruction of the soul and mind though sodomy - we underestimate the wickedness of our elite law makers.

[Who's Doing What?]

The guy committed murder in a place where death is the penalty. IT is not an absurd punishment for the crime. It is not like a woman getting stoned to death for being alone in a room with a single man, or getting 10 years in jail for 2 joints of weed. I would rather the Cdn Govt. help Mark Emery than get involved in this.

[guyser]

The guy committed murder in a place where death is the penalty. IT is not an absurd punishment for the crime. It is not like a woman getting stoned to death for being alone in a room with a single man, or getting 10 years in jail for 2 joints of weed. I would rather the Cdn Govt. help Mark Emery than get involved in this.

Except it is governmental policy to fight for a different sentence than death. I wish they would help Emery, but there is plenty of personnel to do both , it is not an either or situation.

[MontyBurns]

Except it is governmental policy to fight for a different sentence than death.

Not any more.

[guyser]

Not any more.

True sadly.

I should have used "was" not "is"

[noahbody]

This whole thing started when an official suggested to Montana's governor that Smith could serve the rest of his sentence in Canada. The Harper government reacted to this in an attempt to close Pandora's box. Their case by case policy affected no one. In Smith's case the governor had already been petitioned and there is zero chance of him granting clemency for Smith - not only because he believes in the death penalty but because he would have to deal with the backlash from the reserve the two victims were from.

If I recall correctly, the last vote on capital punishment in Montana was 53% to 47%. There very well may be another vote before Smith's time runs out. So he still might be spared, unlike his victims.

In any event, the Liberal motion amounts to political hay. Sad that Smith gets more support than Robert Lattimer.

[jdobbin]

I don't mean execute everything that moves. But in certain cases it seems justified like Robert Pickton for example. Canada should probably do it on a case by case basis. Same with seeking clemency abroad. If they have committed gross crimes then fry the buggers IMO.

I don't know you can be sure who is guilty beyond doubt in terms of the death penalty. I don't want Pickton to go free if he is found guilty. I just don't want him to be executed if it means that David Milgaard and Donald Marshall die as well in the haste to clear death row.

[jdobbin]

If I recall correctly, the last vote on capital punishment in Montana was 53% to 47%. There very well may be another vote before Smith's time runs out. So he still might be spared, unlike his victims.

In any event, the Liberal motion amounts to political hay. Sad that Smith gets more support than Robert Lattimer.

The political hay is when the Tories say Liberals support murderers.