RESP's - going to be tax deductible?

[msj]

I disagree completely, it doesn't get any more major than a government not being able to budget because of bills forced through after the fact. If it can be enforced it is the same as defeating the budget which is an automatic election. Canadians will be quite interested in why they are having an election they say they don't want.

I love how it's always "an election they say they don't want" depending on how well, or poorly, one party or the other is doing at that particular moment in time.

Suppose now isn't a good time for the CPC - Cadman, "Obamagate," incompetent governing by allowing the RESP bill to get through to the Senate...

Funny how a few weeks ago it seemed almost like the CPC wanted an election - setting all those traps with Afghanistan, the budget etc...

I guess it was different then - maybe "we" were saying that "we" wanted an election at that time.

[jdobbin]

Canadians will be quite interested in why they are having an election they say they don't want.

They didn't want an election last time either according to the polls. It doesn't mean they won't vote.

And still the Tories will have to say why they are opposed to a tax deduction that every other party supported.

[Wilber]

They didn't want an election last time either according to the polls. It doesn't mean they won't vote.

And still the Tories will have to say why they are opposed to a tax deduction that every other party supported.

What a hoot, you are against TFSA's because they aren't inclusive enough but you are in favour of this which is even less inclusive. I just shake my head.

[jdobbin]

What a hoot, you are against TFSA's because they aren't inclusive enough but you are in favour of this which is even less inclusive. I just shake my head.

Actually, I said I am opposed. Check the thread. I think it complicates the tax system and I still prefer an income tax cut. I just shake my head when people don't read what I clearly said: No to the RESP legislation. No to the TFSA.

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index....st&p=297070

I am saying it is hypocritical for some Tories to say they don't want to increase taxes. Well, this is a decrease in tax. If they are opposed, they are for increasing the taxes. At least that was how the argument went with Dion and the GST. They are being tweaked by their own previous stand.

What a hoot. Call an election on it.

Edited March 10, 2008 by jdobbin

[Wilber]

I am saying it is hypocritical for some Tories to say they don't want to increase taxes. Well, this is a decrease in tax. If they are opposed, they are for increasing the taxes. At least that was how the argument went with Dion and the GST. They are being tweaked by their own previous stand.

The difference is the government has to manage the budget, Dion does not.

What a hoot. Call an election on it.

They may not have a choice. Hope you are ready.

[jdobbin]

The difference is the government has to manage the budget, Dion does not.

The argument that government is not just about how it ruins their budget but how they oppose this tax. They will have to explain why they oppose this tax aside from it ruins their budget.

They may not have a choice. Hope you are ready.

I'd love to see them go to the polls on how they want to increase taxes.

[Wilber]

The argument that government is not just about how it ruins their budget but how they oppose this tax. They will have to explain why they oppose this tax aside from it ruins their budget.

I'd love to see them go to the polls on how they want to increase taxes.

If the Liberals really feel this way, why didn't they just have the balls to just defeat the budget up front? That would seem far more honest than this sort of horseshit. As far as explaining it goes, they need no other reason than it ruins their budget and if they can't budget they have to go to the poles. Any nitwit can understand that. You run a great risk by insulting peoples intelligence.

[jdobbin]

If the Liberals really feel this way, why didn't they just have the balls to just defeat the budget up front? That would seem far more honest than this sort of horseshit. As far as explaining it goes, they need no other reason than it ruins their budget and if they can't budget they have to go to the poles. Any nitwit can understand that. You run a great risk by insulting peoples intelligence.

I guess we'll see if the government feels strongly enough on the issue, they will call an election. If they don't, they don't have any balls.

[Pat Coghlan]

I guess we'll see if the government feels strongly enough on the issue, they will call an election. If they don't, they don't have any balls.

Looks like they have big ones: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home

[jdobbin]

Looks like they have big ones:

We'll see if the Tories actually go ahead with this. I think the Liberals should go ahead with an election. I don't support the bill but I don't think the Liberals can go too many more times with abstaining. All this waiting for the by-election wins is damaging performance in the House.

[Wild Bill]

Looks to me like the Liberals have accepted that they are going to have to face an election sooner rather than later. All this muck being raked like Cadman, RESP and whatever is just desperately trying to get some shape on the campaign ball.

They know they're starting from pretty far back. Anything and everything that might tarnish the CPC brand could mean enough votes in a riding here and there to make a difference. None of it has to be proven or make sense. It simply has to stick long enough to get through the election. Tories spending media time pointing out the absurdity of getting life insurance for a dying man is part of that tactic. Refuting the allegation is not success. Making it stick long enough to influence some votes IS!

Remember, the Liberals may be broke, lacking an organized army and demoralized but NOBODY is better at machiavellian tactics to win elections!

Edited March 11, 2008 by Wild Bill

[jdobbin]

Remember, the Liberals may be broke, lacking an organized army and demoralized but NOBODY is better at machiavellian tactics to win elections!

I don't they will need much to prevent a Tory majority. It seems that in poll after poll, the public just doesn't feel comfortable thinking about the Tories getting a blank check.

It will be interesting to see the Tories run on the issue of not lowering taxes.

Edited March 11, 2008 by jdobbin

[Topaz]

The Finance minister said the government couldn't afford the RESP's and it would put the gov't in debt and that's not counting the 1 billion they overspent in Afghanistan budget.

[scribblet]

It's called, Afraid of the electorate - keep throwing mud

It will be funny to see how Dion explains why he won't bring down the gov't when he keeps telling us this gov't is not good for Canada, and why he keeps it alive if not to serve his own political self interest.

It will also be interesting to see how Harper will turn it to an electoral advantage, so this will backfire on the opposition for trying to sneak some sloppy legislation through just to try to look good, and., cause a needless election due to their bungling.

[geoffrey]

It will be interesting to see the Tories run on the issue of not lowering taxes.

And Dion can win supporting deficit budgets? Don Drummond asserted today that we cannot afford this. Why does Dion want to run large deficits? Is that the Liberal way? Must be.

[jdobbin]

And Dion can win supporting deficit budgets? Don Drummond asserted today that we cannot afford this. Why does Dion want to run large deficits? Is that the Liberal way? Must be.

The last deficit was under the Tories not the Liberals. And now the Tories spend like drunken sailors. Is the Conservative way?

[jdobbin]

It will be funny to see how Dion explains why he won't bring down the gov't when he keeps telling us this gov't is not good for Canada, and why he keeps it alive if not to serve his own political self interest.

Dion will simply say that he won't bring down the government over the budget. Then he will accuse the Tories of not wanting tax cuts. And then he will wait till next Monday when the the by-elections take place. If there is a strong showing there, he will have support to finally go to an election.

Latest Ipsos poll shows a lot of promise for the Liberals in the election.

[Keepitsimple]

Dion will simply say that he won't bring down the government over the budget. Then he will accuse the Tories of not wanting tax cuts. And then he will wait till next Monday when the the by-elections take place. If there is a strong showing there, he will have support to finally go to an election.

Latest Ipsos poll shows a lot of promise for the Liberals in the election.

Not sure how much of a bounce they will get. If I understand correctly, the Liberals won all 4 seats in the last election. The Toronto seats are Liberal bastions. Vancouver Quadra has been Liberal since Mulroney. I suppose it's possible they could increase their popular vote but to me, the chances are better that they will lose Saskatchewan and just tread water in the other ones. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[capricorn]

Dion will simply say that he won't bring down the government over the budget. Then he will accuse the Tories of not wanting tax cuts.

Wouldn't the retort to this accusation be that a cautious budget was required in order not to fall in deficit and the RESP bill could result into deficit? The IFSA could also be held up as a more universally accessible tax saving measure than RESPs. Come to think of it, maybe this whole thing would become so confusing to some voters, it would not have any impact on their initial voting intention.

Latest Ipsos poll shows a lot of promise for the Liberals in the election.

The status quo is a promising outcome for Liberals?

[Wild Bill]

Dion will simply say that he won't bring down the government over the budget. Then he will accuse the Tories of not wanting tax cuts. And then he will wait till next Monday when the the by-elections take place. If there is a strong showing there, he will have support to finally go to an election.

Latest Ipsos poll shows a lot of promise for the Liberals in the election.

You might be right. Still, I'd rather wait and see rather than place any bets. The pollsters were kinda wrong about Liberal fortunes in the Alberta election.

Actually, I think Dion is gonna get pushed into an election no matter how good or bad they do in the byelections. His party seems to realize that he's not gonna win the next election for them. In fact, a lot of existing Liberal MPs may lose their seats. He shows no sign of turning this trend around. In fact, it keeps getting worse!

Games theory would suggest that the best bet is to trigger an election now and take your lumps. Then you have an excuse for a leadership convention. Dion's gone and Rae or Ignatieff is in. Pin as much of the party baggage on Dion's ass as you toss him out the door.

Liberals can't call a leadership convention right now 'cuz it would give Harper the opportunity to force a snap election while they're disorganized. The NDP and the BQ would love to help that along, since it would only mean pluses for them. After all, the Libs did it to Harper's gang, twice!

After an election Harper could not possibly pull that trick. Canadians would never stomach another election so soon. A new Liberal leader would have months if not a couple of years to get ready for the next poll.

By then maybe Prince Justin would be ready to assume the throne!

[August1991]

This is a aparticularly dumb way to cut taxes. It amounts to a boutique tax cut; a tax cut for a narrow group (wealthy people with kids who go to university). The Tories indulged in boutique tax cuts in the last election (tax deductions for tools, sports and bus passes) although they were less foolish than this RESP proposal.

If the Liberals provoke an election because of McTeague's ego, it will hurt them at the polls. And Dion might just be so fed up at this time that he'll do it.

If the government falls, RESPs will quickly be forgotten. What will be remembered is that the Liberals provoked an election.

[jdobbin]

Wouldn't the retort to this accusation be that a cautious budget was required in order not to fall in deficit and the RESP bill could result into deficit? The IFSA could also be held up as a more universally accessible tax saving measure than RESPs. Come to think of it, maybe this whole thing would become so confusing to some voters, it would not have any impact on their initial voting intention.

The Liberals can use it rightly or wrongly to hammer the Tories on not reducing taxes.

I am opposed to both tax measures in favour of the even more broad-based income tax reductions. If broad-based is what you support, this is the tax plan that does it.

The status quo is a promising outcome for Liberals?

A breakdown of the Ipsos poll by Liberal election hawks shows this:

But Liberal hawks with influence dissected the latest Ipsos Reid poll conducted for Canwest News Service and from the raw numbers, mysteriously deciphered 123 Liberal seats versus 114 for the Conservatives. Unless the Libs suffer a St. Paddy's Day massacre on Monday and lose more than one of the four by-election contests, they predict spring election fever will continue to rise.

Good enough for some to go to an election after the by-elections.

I still predict a Tory minority but there you have it.

[capricorn]

If broad-based is what you support, this is the tax plan that does it.

I'm for any and all tax reductions for as many taxpayers as possible, provided the treasury can afford it.

[jazzer]

I'm for any and all tax reductions for as many taxpayers as possible, provided the treasury can afford it.

Not to mention the billion + spent in Afghanistan.

[geoffrey]

The last deficit was under the Tories not the Liberals. And now the Tories spend like drunken sailors. Is the Conservative way?

The Tory budget was balanced. It's a Liberal motion pushing us over the edge. Why does the Liberal party back a motion that will put us into deficit? That's not sound fiscal policy. That's just playing politics.