Woman in Hiding since Driving over Moroccan Thief in

[kengs333]

this woman is full of baloney, she is using a "fear of reprisal" to avoid facing up to her own crime, which looks, like an intentional move on her part to back up and crush the purse snatcher.

Had she been so fearful of reprisal, she would have never made such a planned or calculated decision to reverse her car, she would have drove away or called the police.

Wow, you're totally out to lunch on this one. You were a witness to this "crime" then, seeing that you're so certain about the criminality of her actions? The fact of the matter is that her criminality is not the issue, rather what the problem is is how members of the muslim community have decided deal with it in their own way. There's no way of justifiying what they are doing, but evidently you're willing to give it a go anyway. Makes me wonder what you are to lower yourself to that level.

[kengs333]

Instead of whining about it why does the Dutch goverment not crack down? Does Holland have no laws regarding beating people? Is the government afraid of these vigilantes? Are judges and police officers under threat?

Have these vigilantes done anything besides rant and threaten?

If they have done something then the law needs to come down hard on them.

LOL

[Peter F]

Wow, you're totally out to lunch on this one. You were a witness to this "crime" then, seeing that you're so certain about the criminality of her actions? The fact of the matter is that her criminality is not the issue, rather what the problem is is how members of the muslim community have decided deal with it in their own way. There's no way of justifiying what they are doing, but evidently you're willing to give it a go anyway. Makes me wonder what you are to lower yourself to that level.

The strange thing is, no one has presented anything that show's anyone of the Muslim faith doing anything to the woman who killed the Morroccan.

[Regulus de Leo]

The strange thing is, no one has presented anything that show's anyone of the Muslim faith doing anything to the woman who killed the Morroccan.

She has to be killed before you'll believe the police who her to go into hiding?

[Peter F]

She has to be killed before you'll believe the police who her to go into hiding?

No she doesn't have to be killed for anyone to present anything that show's anyone of the Muslim faith doing anything to the woman who killed the Morroccan.

[kuzadd]

Wow, you're totally out to lunch on this one. You were a witness to this "crime" then, seeing that you're so certain about the criminality of her actions? The fact of the matter is that her criminality is not the issue, rather what the problem is is how members of the muslim community have decided deal with it in their own way. There's no way of justifiying what they are doing, but evidently you're willing to give it a go anyway. Makes me wonder what you are to lower yourself to that level.

There is also no indication the police told her to go into hiding from the article.

"The police advised her to go into hiding after the incident, according to the newspaper."

which means what, the newspaper talks for the police?

why didn't the paper talk to and get a statement from the police?

no indication of that?

Did the woman tell the paper that, that the police told her to hide? Isn't that heresay?

Her criminality is in fact the issue and it appears to be the only issue!

She is portraying herself as a victim to avoid facing her responsiblility.

Edited March 12, 2008 by kuzadd

[Drea]

She has to be killed before you'll believe the police who her to go into hiding?

The "thought" of someone attacking her is not enough... was there direct threats?

Or is she just hiding from her crime as Kuzadd said?

Here in Canada it is illegal to leave the scene of a serious accident. If you kill someone stay at the scene or you will face the consequences. (Yup and if you kill a person, expect his family will be a tad angry with you and may even yell out a threat or two)

[kengs333]

The strange thing is, no one has presented anything that show's anyone of the Muslim faith doing anything to the woman who killed the Morroccan.

Oh, right, I guess that's why according to the third paragraph in the article:

The police advised her to go into hiding after the incident, according to the newspaper.

[kengs333]

There is also no indication the police told her to go into hiding from the article.

"The police advised her to go into hiding after the incident, according to the newspaper."

which means what, the newspaper talks for the police?

why didn't the paper talk to and get a statement from the police?

no indication of that?

Did the woman tell the paper that, that the police told her to hide? Isn't that heresay?

Her criminality is in fact the issue and it appears to be the only issue!

She is portraying herself as a victim to avoid facing her responsiblility.

Honestly, you're argument is starting to get very tenuous. You seem to be grasping for anything in an effort to downplay the real issue at hand here. What's your agenda? Are you a Muslim by any chance?

[kuzadd]

Honestly, you're argument is starting to get very tenuous. You seem to be grasping for anything in an effort to downplay the real issue at hand here. What's your agenda? Are you a Muslim by any chance?

The real issue is that this woman is wanted for a crime. and she claims , thus far in an unsubstantiated manner, that she must hide out of fear, so what???

That is what she claims, so ???

I can claim, I must hide from all my "mafia " (lol) relatives, so, does that make it true???

NOPE!

It is only what I claim.

[AngusThermopyle]

This whole debate has boiled down to nit picking. If the paper reports that the Police told her to go into hiding then we must assume the information came from the Police. The alternative is to have concerned officers making public appearances stating what they have said to the newspapers. That being the case we would want the same from the Palestinians, the Israelis, the Americans and on and on.

What is known beyond any shadow of a doubt is that a very serious problem exists in Europe. This can not be denied after so many examples and instances have been made known. Its not just Van Gogh, its the riots, the lawlessness, the rapes. These are facts, not fiction. Write a book they don't like, go hide for the rest of your life. To refuse acknowledgment of these things is to be willfully blind and ignorant, an Ostrich.

[Peter F]

Write a book they don't like, go hide for the rest of your life.

or not, as the writer wills. To refuse acknowledgment of these things is to be willfully blind and ignorant, an Ostrich.

[AngusThermopyle]

or not, as the writer wills. To refuse acknowledgment of these things is to be willfully blind and ignorant, an Ostrich.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Are you postulating that the necessity to hide is Rushdie's fault since he chose to do so after receiving death threats? That being the case are you saying that in his situation you would have ignored the threats thus endangering yourself and your family? Just in order to prove a specious and rather vacuous point?

[Peter F]

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Are you postulating that the necessity to hide is Rushdie's fault since he chose to do so after receiving death threats? That being the case are you saying that in his situation you would have ignored the threats thus endangering yourself and your family? Just in order to prove a specious and rather vacuous point?

Of course! Otherwise I would never have published the book or produced the play. Why on earth would I decide to do such a worthy thing and then run and hide in fear because I did? Because I pissed some folks off? I piss people off every day. Despite all the murderous muslims in the world Rushdie's alive and still doing interviews. So is whatshername.

Because somebody makes threats I should run and hide? Is that a reasonable way of living ones life? If you consider the actions of Rushdie and Whatshername and the other dutch woman reasonable you should also be willing to surrender to the terrorists.

[AngusThermopyle]

Because somebody makes threats I should run and hide? Is that a reasonable way of living ones life? If you consider the actions of Rushdie and Whatshername and the other dutch woman reasonable you should also be willing to surrender to the terrorists.

Boy did you peg me wrong on that one. When threatened I tend to do the opposite and take care of the problem promptly and in unequivocal fashion.

So your contention is that because Rushdie had the unmitigated gall to write something its all his fault? That being the case I would say it sounds more like you are the one willing to surrender, not I.

[jefferiah]

Of course! Otherwise I would never have published the book or produced the play. Why on earth would I decide to do such a worthy thing and then run and hide in fear because I did? Because I pissed some folks off? I piss people off every day. Despite all the murderous muslims in the world Rushdie's alive and still doing interviews. So is whatshername.

The Ayatollah declared a fatwa on Rushdie and he lived under police protection for quite some time. I would think it was quite serious. For a long time he was pretty shy of the public eye.

In the 80s there was a terrorist attempt on his life in London. The bomb went off early and killed the terrorist. There is a shrine in Tehran dedicated to the man---"the first martyr to die in the mission to kill Rushdie."

I think that constitutes more of a threat than Kuzadd's mocking mafia comparison.

[Peter F]

The Ayatollah declared a fatwa on Rushdie and he lived under police protection for quite some time. I would think it was quite serious. For a long time he was pretty shy of the public eye.

In the 80s there was a terrorist attempt on his life in London. The bomb went off early and killed the terrorist. There is a shrine in Tehran dedicated to the man---"the first martyr to die in the mission to kill Rushdie."

I think that constitutes more of a threat than Kuzadd's mocking mafia comparison.

yeah. So if Rushdie should inadvertently kill somebody - he should be immune from investigation 'cause some religious freaks may or may not have been tryijng to find him for the last 15 years? Give me a break.

[Peter F]

Boy did you peg me wrong on that one. When threatened I tend to do the opposite and take care of the problem promptly and in unequivocal fashion.

I really could not care less. You asked what I would do in thier boots and I told you what I would do - wich is very little in that I would not hide or claim that I am above the law.

So your contention is that because Rushdie had the unmitigated gall to write something its all his fault? That being the case I would say it sounds more like you are the one willing to surrender, not I.

Not my contention at all. The fault of the fatwa issued by Iranian religious noodles is the fault of the religious noodles issueing the fatwa. The blame for writing his book entirely belongs to Rushdie and no one else.

Your contention is that the dutch woman should not have to face any consequence for causing a persons death because that now-dead-person was (suppopsedly) a muslim and some muslim somewhere else may or may not have a hankering to kill a different person entirely unrelated to the incident at hand; the dead guy or the woman that allegedly caused his death.

Its ridiculous.

[AngusThermopyle]

Your contention is that the dutch woman should not have to face any consequence for causing a persons death because that now-dead-person was (suppopsedly) a muslim and some muslim somewhere else may or may not have a hankering to kill a different person entirely unrelated to the incident at hand; the dead guy or the woman that allegedly caused his death.

Its ridiculous.

This I find really interesting. Its interesting because I don't believe I've said any such thing. How bout you do a little quotey quote thing and show all of us exactly where I said this? C'mon now, you made this accusation so why don't you back it up? Or are you just trying to fill the shoes of someonewhohaditcoming?

[jefferiah]

yeah. So if Rushdie should inadvertently kill somebody - he should be immune from investigation 'cause some religious freaks may or may not have been tryijng to find him for the last 15 years? Give me a break.

I don't think I have said anything along this lines either. How about you supply a quote to back this one up as well?

In this case I was arguing your assertion that Salman Rushdie faced no threat, which you seem to just conveniently toss off as a lot of fluff, while the police certainly found it threatening enough to provide him with protection.

Another thing I find extremely strange is that you say that Rushdie is to blame for writing his book. It's a strange choice of words. If you were to say responsible, that might make more sense. But blame implies that he did something bad.

Edited March 14, 2008 by jefferiah

[jefferiah]

yeah. So if Rushdie should inadvertently kill somebody - he should be immune from investigation 'cause some religious freaks may or may not have been tryijng to find him for the last 15 years? Give me a break.

I don't think it matters how long one has been chased or if one has been chased at all. But I think this 19 year old Moroccan may have run the risk of an inadverdent death when he opened her car door and stole her purse. I think it is strange that the court will not allow her to cover her face in order to protect herself.

[Peter F]

This I find really interesting. Its interesting because I don't believe I've said any such thing. How bout you do a little quotey quote thing and show all of us exactly where I said this? C'mon now, you made this accusation so why don't you back it up? Or are you just trying to fill the shoes of someonewhohaditcoming?

Vert well. I am mistaken. You don't contend that at all. You do contend that the Morroccan deserved death for purse snatching and that the woman involved in his death should be left alone because of the situation in Europe.

[Peter F]

I don't think it matters how long one has been chased or if one has been chased at all. But I think this 19 year old Moroccan may have run the risk of an inadverdent death when he opened her car door and stole her purse. I think it is strange that the court will not allow her to cover her face in order to protect herself.

Yes, the thief did take on a risk of inadvertent death when he did what he did. But that does not mean people are allowed to kill thieves - even inadvertently and even if they are scum. I suspect a court would consider the act of thievery a mitigating circumstance - then again, maybe not depending upon the circumstances of the incident.

The court did in fact allow her to cover her face. According to the article:

Her lawyer

wanted the case to be heard behind closed doors because the woman fears that a public hearing will increase the danger she claims she is in. The judge did permit the woman to hide her face yesterday with a scarf so that she could not be recognised.

And I might add, nothing has yet been presented to support the contention that Muslims are out to get her.

[AngusThermopyle]

You do contend that the Morroccan deserved death for purse snatching and that the woman involved in his death should be left alone because of the situation in Europe.

Are you making this stuff up as you go along? Once again, show me where I said he deserves death for purse snatching. What I have been talking about is the "European" problem relating to Muslims, hence the reference to Rushdie. No where have I stated that she should be left alone either. You either are being inadvertantly disingenuous or you are displaying the exact same traits as our recently departed member did for your own purpose.

If we are going to discuss this it would go better if you would desist from your creative writing efforts and actually stick to what has really been said.

[DogOnPorch]

AT: You either are being inadvertantly disingenuous...

Bingo...it's a peculiar trait amoung some that if a bomb went off across the street they'd want proof it was actually a bomb and not a truck backfiring before being bothered to look. The shattered windows and screams from the street aren't enough...

Muslim death threats are a reality to some...but since it isn't happening to us directly...it is easily discounted as over-reaction...or my favorite...Islamophobia.

Given that, though, I suspect Peter F knows exactly what he's saying and merely is looking for 'extreme reactions' so he can chorttle over his morning coffee...

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