Quebec has own rules for separation: Duceppe

[Leafless]

Well, it didn't take long for Quebec's Bloc Quebecois to react to Kosovo as an independent country.

Under Canada's Clarity Act, Quebec can legitimately achieve independence, but only on the strength of a clear referendum victory on a straightforward question.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/s...87-0a00e5e24a6d

But some think the Clarity Act needs beefing up:

A strengthened Clarity Act would serve as the legal basis for the deployment of the Canadian military in the event of a unilateral declaration of independence. The legislation would be predicated on the notion that the government will back the rule of law with force, he said.

http://www.canada.com/ottawa/ottawacitizen...b7-71093924783f

[Leafless]

Well, it didn't take long for Quebec's Bloc Quebecois to react to Kosovo as an independent country.

Bloc Québécois leader Gilles Duceppe says recognition of the breakaway state of Kosovo as an independent country would not change the standing Canadian rules for Quebec separation.

"Every case is unique," said Mr. Duceppe, speaking to reporters in Montreal. "Here, the rules of the game are very clear.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/s...87-0a00e5e24a6d

It would make sense to charge Duceppe with continually threatening the confederation of Canada by rabble rousing relating to the separation issue or give Canadians the option of whether or not Canadians wish to keep Quebec in confederation.

Edited February 21, 2008 by Leafless

[AngusThermopyle]

Is it possible to give Quebec to Kosovo? Just a thought.

[Leafless]

Is it possible to give Quebec to Kosovo? Just a thought.

I doubt that since Quebec is not a radical Muslim province associated with Al-Qaeda, although they could be considered radical.

I really don't know where Quebec would fit in on this side of the ocean as a tiny French country surrounded by hundreds of millions of English speakers.

[capricorn]

The threat of separation is the lever used by Quebec politicians to extort money from the federal government. A threat, that's what it is and it's paying off. This threat has gained momentum given the close vote in the last separation referendum. If the feds gave in to the call for separation, where would Quebec be? Broke, isolated and chaotic. Quebecers on the whole are not cognizant of how close they came to finding out the true impact and cost of Quebecois independence. To this day, Quebecers who want separation are not in possession of all the facts and politicians are not about to reveal the truth to the gullible. It is especially in the PQ's interest to keep the issue of independence on an emotional level to gain support for their cause. The cries of "maître chez nous" (we are our own master), "les maudits Anglais" (those damned English) and so on have been chanted by the radicals so often that they have been swallowed whole by the uninformed.

Let's face it. The ROC is being held hostage by a bunch of Quebec radicals hungry for power within the federation or in an independent Quebec. Either way, the radicals have the best of both worlds and to hell with the interests of that beleaguered province and their people. It's the best con job ever perpetrated on a population and a country.

[Leafless]

Let's face it. The ROC is being held hostage by a bunch of Quebec radicals hungry for power within the federation or in an independent Quebec. Either way, the radicals have the best of both worlds and to hell with the interests of that beleaguered province and their people. It's the best con job ever perpetrated on a population and a country.

Dysfunctional national political parties is to blame basically over English vs French ideologies traditionally leaving the Conservatives an isolated powerless Western based party.

The Liberals who traditionally have dominated central and Eastern Canada have never been a truly national federal party as Quebec interest were always over represented, thus in full control of the Liberal party itself especially with PM's from that province and an abundance of Quebec MP's within the Liberal party itself.

The Liberals allowing the Bloc to become a Quebec nationalistic separatist federal party was not in the interest of Canada and should never have been allowed initially.

I believe this country will only advance out of its third rate language controlled state when Quebec leaves and the country can return to relatively normal politics and until then outright discrimination against the majority English speaking Canadians will continue, controlled under a variety of different guises.

[fellowtraveller]

The Clarity Act will be ignored by any Quebec government who feels they have a strong mandate to separate. Their attitude will be: we are not bound by the laws of a country we do not belong to any more.

It would be very unwise indeed for the federal govt to believe anything else.

[Riverwind]

The Clarity Act will be ignored by any Quebec government who feels they have a strong mandate to separate. Their attitude will be: we are not bound by the laws of a country we do not belong to any more.

The clarity act is a tool that will likely delay any sort of international recognition. Most countries would find it hard to justify recognizing an independent quebec when canadian government is basically acknowledging their right to do so but insisting that a legal process be followed.

[fellowtraveller]

The clarity act is a tool that will likely delay any sort of international recognition. Most countries would find it hard to justify recognizing an independent quebec when canadian government is basically acknowledging their right to do so but insisting that a legal process be followed.

None of that rationalization will matter to a Quebec national government flushed with success. They will move from a successful referendum to a declaration of soveriegnty in a matter of days. The Clarity Act will be useless in preventing any of it.

The international recognition will come when the international community recognizes that the referendum was conducted demcratically.

Some jumped -up federal law from a country that no longer includes Quebec will be irrelevant, as will all the other laws and institutions of a country that no longer includes Quebec.

Depending on the Clarity Act to have an influence on the outcome is folly, though classically Canadian.

[Leafless]

None of that rationalization will matter to a Quebec national government flushed with success. They will move from a successful referendum to a declaration of soveriegnty in a matter of days. The Clarity Act will be useless in preventing any of it.

The international recognition will come when the international community recognizes that the referendum was conducted demcratically.

Some jumped -up federal law from a country that no longer includes Quebec will be irrelevant, as will all the other laws and institutions of a country that no longer includes Quebec.

Depending on the Clarity Act to have an influence on the outcome is folly, though classically Canadian.

Quebec is part of a modern country and would have to negotiate for what not does not belong to Quebec including the land itself, its share of the national debt etc.

There is no way Quebec can just get up and leave.

If Quebec does illegally leave it will leave with very little, no economy, it will be cut off from Canada and the military will move in.

[Wild Bill]

Quebec is part of a modern country and would have to negotiate for what not does not belong to Quebec including the land itself, its share of the national debt etc.

There is no way Quebec can just get up and leave.

If Quebec does illegally leave it will leave with very little, no economy, it will be cut off from Canada and the military will move in.

Why? This is a political situation and not a legal one. What if Quebec just unilaterally refused to pay its true or fair share of its debts? Or used its own biased calculations?

Send in the army? Our guys are great but I doubt if we have enough of them. Besides, you can buy better guns in Crappy Tire than we tend to give to our troops. Certainly newer!

What makes you think our government would actually do it? We won't send in troops to Caledonia. We're gonna send them into Quebec?

And how many troops, officers and guns are from Quebec? Where would their allegiance lie?

The real problems would come later. I agree that Quebec would suffer a huge economic hit. People don't understand that much of the BQ/PQ came from the NDP. These guys were just wannabes until the independence issue arose. They got in front of the parade and ended up in real power but they're still NDP at heart. They are emotional thinkers, not logical. The last science class they took was when their bean sprouts died in that jar full of toilet paper. They had already dropped math the year before.

So you're wasting your time with appeals to their head. Separation comes solely from the heart.

That being said, if Quebec achieved separation they would rapidly find out that you can't dodge reality. As Parizeau once said: "lobsters in the pot"! They would immediately have to deal with cheezy, mundane details like money.

At first they would try to run on however much they managed to get from Canada. That wouldn't last forever, of course. It's not likely these folks would know how to make Quebec's economy strong and self-sustaining.

So they would have only one choice. Try to extort more from Canada!

Tolls or even blockades on the TransCanada Highway. Excessive fees for use of the St. Laurence waterway. Breaking long term contracts with other provinces for power and energy to impose immediate new prices.

Am I exaggerating? Perhaps. Remember however, one can immediately recognize the word "politician" in either English or French spelling.

[Leafless]

Why? This is a political situation and not a legal one. What if Quebec just unilaterally refused to pay its true or fair share of its debts? Or used its own biased calculations?

Send in the army? Our guys are great but I doubt if we have enough of them. Besides, you can buy better guns in Crappy Tire than we tend to give to our troops. Certainly newer!

I guess that new deal Canada made with the U.S. relating to the use of U.S. troops in Canada now has significant meaning.

What makes you think our government would actually do it? We won't send in troops to Caledonia. We're gonna send them into Quebec?

Caledonia is mostly a provincial matter and our current Ontario premier believes in extreme liberalism and appears to be a coward to set an example relating to the use of an authoritative force.

Canada relating to Quebec would look weak and incapable in the eyes of the world not protecting Canada's own sovereignty. Canada would have no choice but to send in the military.

And how many troops, officers and guns are from Quebec? Where would their allegiance lie?

Who cares, the point being traitors will be adequately dealt with one way or another.

So you're wasting your time with appeals to their head. Separation comes solely from the heart.

They are still subject to negotiating.

I hope they do go.

So they would have only one choice. Try to extort more from Canada!

Tolls or even blockades on the TransCanada Highway. Excessive fees for use of the St. Laurence waterway. Breaking long term contracts with other provinces for power and energy to impose immediate new prices.

Canadians contributed greatly for the construction of James Bay generating facilities and this is another area Quebec would be forced to negotiate. James Bay also sits on previously owned crown land which Canada could also take back in the event of illegal or legal Quebec separation.

There is no way Quebec could ever even attempt to blockade the St.Lawrence seaway as this would obviously be detrimental to U.S. majority interest in the seaway and Quebec would be dealt with promptly by the U.S. with force.

[Wild Bill]

I guess that new deal Canada made with the U.S. relating to the use of U.S. troops in Canada now has significant meaning.

Caledonia is mostly a provincial matter and our current Ontario premier believes in extreme liberalism and appears to be a coward to set an example relating to the use of an authoritative force.

Canada relating to Quebec would look weak and incapable in the eyes of the world not protecting Canada's own sovereignty. Canada would have no choice but to send in the military.

Who cares, the point being traitors will be adequately dealt with one way or another.

They are still subject to negotiating.

I hope they do go.

Canadians contributed greatly for the construction of James Bay generating facilities and this is another area Quebec would be forced to negotiate. James Bay also sits on previously owned crown land which Canada could also take back in the event of illegal or legal Quebec separation.

There is no way Quebec could ever even attempt to blockade the St.Lawrence seaway as this would obviously be detrimental to U.S. majority interest in the seaway and Quebec would be dealt with promptly by the U.S. with force.

Hey, you may be right. I hope it never comes to it but if it all happens it's possible things would play out the way you paint it.

I'm just saying that your argument is based on logic and principles. What has that got to do with our politicians? In a shoving match between the BQ/PQ and Ottawa Canada would need a government willing to stand up for the rest of us.

It's a bit of a stretch but I could see Harper as sort of a Churchill - the best choice for a wartime PM. At least, better than anyone the Liberal party would ever offer! The thought of Dion standing between us and the lions gives me the willies...

[Topaz]

I can't remember were I saw this but I did come across a map of North America and the topic was the SPP and Quebec was NOT part of the North American Union. Since both the Cons and the Libs signed the document, I wonder if they are willing to let Quebec go in the future if the SPP goes ahead?

[M.Dancer]

I can't remember were I saw this but I did come across a map of North America and the topic was the SPP and Quebec was NOT part of the North American Union. Since both the Cons and the Libs signed the document, I wonder if they are willing to let Quebec go in the future if the SPP goes ahead?

was it http://www.tinfoilcrackpots.org ?

[AngusThermopyle]

Besides, you can buy better guns in Crappy Tire than we tend to give to our troops. Certainly newer!

Actually Wild Bill you should look into that statement a little more closely. Our weapons are excellent, rated amongst the top worldwide. We made extensive modifications to the reference design in order to suit them to our varied and harsh climate. As a result we now have weapons that are accurate, robust and versatile.The smaller "accessories" we equip them with are also amongst the finest availlable, such as the scopes we use.

The weapons are also subject to rigorous maintenance and replacement schedules so even though not new, each one is in top condition. In all the years I used the C-7 I only experienced about two stoppages, not bad at all.

This doesn't have much to do with the topic but I just cant stand to see facetious and incorrect statements pertaining to such topics.

[AngusThermopyle]

Sorry double post, the next one should be sorry triple post.

Edited February 28, 2008 by AngusThermopyle

[AngusThermopyle]

Sorry, double post.

Edited February 28, 2008 by AngusThermopyle

[Leafless]

Actually Wild Bill you should look into that statement a little more closely. Our weapons are excellent, rated amongst the top worldwide. We made extensive modifications to the reference design in order to suit them to our varied and harsh climate. As a result we now have weapons that are accurate, robust and versatile.The smaller "accessories" we equip them with are also amongst the finest availlable, such as the scopes we use.

The weapons are also subject to rigorous maintenance and replacement schedules so even though not new, each one is in top condition. In all the years I used the C-7 I only experienced about two stoppages, not bad at all.

This doesn't have much to do with the topic but I just cant stand to see facetious and incorrect statements pertaining to such topics.

I think Wild Bill, generally speaking, is relating to the fact Canada has only a smaller military capable of limited operations.

[Wild Bill]

Actually Wild Bill you should look into that statement a little more closely. Our weapons are excellent, rated amongst the top worldwide. We made extensive modifications to the reference design in order to suit them to our varied and harsh climate. As a result we now have weapons that are accurate, robust and versatile.The smaller "accessories" we equip them with are also amongst the finest availlable, such as the scopes we use.

The weapons are also subject to rigorous maintenance and replacement schedules so even though not new, each one is in top condition. In all the years I used the C-7 I only experienced about two stoppages, not bad at all.

This doesn't have much to do with the topic but I just cant stand to see facetious and incorrect statements pertaining to such topics.

I've been wondering if with a handle like Angus Thermopyle you're a scifi fan? If so, we probably both appreciate the philosophy of the book "Starship Troopers" and HATED the movie!

Anyhow, I'm glad to be corrected that the weapons we give are troops are better than I had thought.

Both of them!

Now, if only we could stop sending them to Afghanistan along with Arctic cammo...

[AngusThermopyle]

I was wondering if anyone would recognize the name. One of the greatest anti heroes ever written in my opinion. I first read Starship Troopers when I was about eleven or twelve I believe, yes, you're right, the movie was abysmal.

[Borg]

Quebec is part of a modern country and would have to negotiate for what not does not belong to Quebec including the land itself, its share of the national debt etc.

There is no way Quebec can just get up and leave.

If Quebec does illegally leave it will leave with very little, no economy, it will be cut off from Canada and the military will move in.

If they go they can definitely take their share of the debt, their ORIGINAL land mass, and create their own monetary system.

Those kebekers will not have those jammy jobs in Ottawa - and the country can stop wasting money on the bi-lang game. Imagine - finally not having to press #1 for English.

I doubt the army would move in - hell they could field almost half of what this country has. might be an interesting go-a-round.

They are net takers in the financial game - we would see huge additions to our government bank account.

Let those people go - we would be better off without them by far.

Borg

[Topaz]

was it http://www.tinfoilcrackpots.org ?

no, I think it was a US website but can't remember which.

[geoffrey]

I think Wild Bill, generally speaking, is relating to the fact Canada has only a smaller military capable of limited operations.

That's because we're a small country with few real foreign interests.

[Leafless]

That's because we're a small country with few real foreign interests.

Right on.

Our foreign interest is the U.S. and they can look after themselves, AND US.

What the heck, we are a liberal country and don't believe in violence anyway.

Peace to everyone is the liberal tradition, just as long as we don't have to pay for it.

Edited March 2, 2008 by Leafless