Who owns a Christian Church?

[August1991]

The head of the Anglican Church of Canada has warned members who split with the church over its decision to bless same-sex unions that they will lose their church buildings and funds.

"In our Anglican tradition, individuals who choose to leave the Church over contentious issues cannot take property and other assets with them," Archbishop Fred Hiltz said in a letter released Friday.

Link

This is pathetic.

[Lazarus]

Link

This is pathetic.

How is this pathetic?

You belong to a sect, that sect owns the property and name of the sect, you leave the sect in a snit, you don't get to take the sects property or name when you go, no matter what your past status in said sect was. Same holds true when you work for a company, unless you own title to the company, you have no right to take any of its belongs, goods or assets when you leave, apart from those you negotiated for prior to leaving.

Personally, I bet you more pissed at the idea of homosexuals unions being blessed by the church more then anything else, I can smell the impotent and misplaced moral outrage. As Bob Dylon sung, "The times are a-changing", so you best get over yourself.

[Melanie_]

It seems that same-sex marriages might be the catalyst for the split, but it isn't the only issue.

“The mood was very serious, very sober. There was no sense of elation. But there was the firm conviction that we had no other alternative if we wanted to maintain our faith,” said Lesley Bentley, a lay member of St. John’s acting as spokesperson for the church. Over the last 15 years, she said, St. John’s has disagreed with diocesan bishop Michael Ingham over a number of faith issues, culminating in the diocese’s 2002 decision to allow blessing ceremonies for gay couples.

“He preached against the bodily resurrection of Christ. His book, Mansions of the Spirit, doesn’t support the uniqueness of Christ, which is a core element of our faith. He reads Scripture in a way we don’t read Scripture. At this point, it’s two different religions,” said Ms. Bentley. Blessing same-sex unions, she said, is “contrary to Scripture.”

Anglican Journal

This quote sums up what I (an athiest) see as the central division in today's churches - does the Bible determine how you see the world, or does the world determine how you see the Bible?

But Bentley, whose congregation plans to fight any eviction, says the St. John's vote is a result of issues that extend beyond the blessing of same-sex unions.

There is now in the Anglican Church of Canada "a real divide between two ways of viewing the Scripture, where the orthodox would argue you use the Bible as a lens and you look at society and judge society through the lens of the Bible."

"The liberals would say you use contemporary society as the lens and you look at the Bible through the lens of society."

Winnipeg Free Press

[kengs333]

You belong to a sect, that sect owns the property and name of the sect, you leave the sect in a snit, you don't get to take the sects property or name when you go, no matter what your past status in said sect was.

Actually, that's what the Anglican church did when they broke away from the Catholic Church. The fact of the matter is, though, that a church should not be defined by the physical building that it occupies; from what I understand, the breakaway congregations don't care one way or another, although I'm sure that they'd prefer to keep the buildings that they are accustomed to worshipping in.

Personally, I bet you more pissed at the idea of homosexuals unions being blessed by the church more then anything else, I can smell the impotent and misplaced moral outrage. As Bob Dylon sung, "The times are a-changing", so you best get over yourself.

The fact that Christianity is so heavily influenced by secular society even without the "gay marriage" issue is bad enough as it is. Who cares is "the times are a-changing" or what any other morally corrupt pop icon of the modern era thinks about social issues? Being a true follower of Christ is a serious issue, and the fact that an institution like the Anglican church is trying to coerce its followers (or being pressured by its parishoners) into evolving in an un-Christian manner is quite wrong.

[Argus]

How is this pathetic?

You belong to a sect, that sect owns the property and name of the sect, you leave the sect in a snit, you don't get to take the sects property or name when you go, no matter what your past status in said sect was. Same holds true when you work for a company, unless you own title to the company, you have no right to take any of its belongs, goods or assets when you leave, apart from those you negotiated for prior to leaving.

Not quite the same thing. These churches are normally built and maintained with donations from the membership. Thus the members of that local church and those who went before them have been contributing/donating money for decades to help run the church. It's not an employee/employer relationship. It's more of a partnership.

And seriously, what is the Anglican church going to do with the empty church? Keep it open with no congregation and no one to pay for its upkeep? Have a priest there preaching to an empty room? Sell it off so it can be buildozed and turned into a condo? Is that really in keeping with their allegedly Christian philosphy?

[Mr.Canada]

This is a driving force behind the many Anglican conversions to the RCC. The one true Christian Church.

[stignasty]

This is a driving force behind the many Anglican conversions to the RCC. The one true Christian Church.

Just when you thought it was safe to come back to mapleleafweb. . .

Ever notice how much the Pope looks like the Sith Lord?

[Smallc]

LOL, I never noticed before.

Edited January 7, 2009 by Smallc

[stignasty]

Seriously.

http://www.ratemyeverything.net/image/2128..._Sith_Lord.ashx

[Mr.Canada]

Just when you thought it was safe to come back to mapleleafweb. . .

Ever notice how much the Pope looks like the Sith Lord?

More Jack Thick...chick.com anti-Catholic rants.

So, it's ok to insult Jesus' representative here on Earth but it isn't ok to slag Jean Chretien...hrm.

[M.Dancer]

So, it's ok to insult Jesus' representative here on Earth.....

Jesus has a rep? Who? CAA?, William Morris? Do they take 15% on the front or back end?

[Mr.Canada]

Jesus has a rep? Who? CAA?, William Morris? Do they take 15% on the front or back end?

Yes, that would be the Pope.

[M.Dancer]

Yes, that would be the Pope.

Funny that God's rep would be chosen from the powerful.....he usually goes for the more prosaic...shepards, fishermen and such. As well the way He chooses them seem to be less of a political cabal meeting and more of a Dove desceding from heaven thingy...

[White Doors]

Seriously.

http://www.ratemyeverything.net/image/2128..._Sith_Lord.ashx

hahahaha

[AngusThermopyle]

Jesus has a rep? Who? CAA?, William Morris? Do they take 15% on the front or back end?

Don't know about them but I think the Pope takes 15% on the front end and gives 100% on the back end.

Sorry, couldn't help that one.

[Mr.Canada]

Funny that God's rep would be chosen from the powerful.....he usually goes for the more prosaic...shepards, fishermen and such. As well the way He chooses them seem to be less of a political cabal meeting and more of a Dove desceding from heaven thingy...

He is a leader as Jesus Christ is.

[tango]

This is a driving force behind the many Anglican conversions to the RCC. The one true Christian Church.

The true Christ-ian faith only existed until about 323 AD, before it was subsumed by wealthy and powerful business and government interests, to become their vanguard of oppression of non-Xians everywhere, a haven for pedophiles and sadists, thieves and launderers of land and resources, destroyers of Indigenous cultures and people, and murders of non-Xian children.

True Christians know that the moneychangers will again be thrown out.

Edited January 9, 2009 by tango

[Mr.Canada]

The true Christ-ian faith only existed until about 323 AD, before it was subsumed by wealthy and powerful business and government interests, to become their vanguard of oppression of non-Xians everywhere, a haven for pedophiles and sadists, thieves and launderers of land and resources, destroyers of Indigenous cultures and people, and murders of non-Xian children.

True Christians know that the moneychangers will again be thrown out.

LOL, this is just absurd an untrue. The Catholic Church has purged itself from the abuse of certain Clergy and have changed the practice of admitting most homosexuals from joining the seminary. There have no new cases in quite some time.There is much much more abuse at public schools yet I hear no attacks on them to close.

[M.Dancer]

There have no new cases in quite some time.

Type "catholic priest abuse" in google news...

[Mr.Canada]

There are many many more abuses at public schools yet no public outcry. Why does nobody care for the little children who are abused at the hands of our teachers? Those poor, poor children.

[Progressive Tory]

LOL, this is just absurd an untrue. The Catholic Church has purged itself from the abuse of certain Clergy and have changed the practice of admitting most homosexuals from joining the seminary. There have no new cases in quite some time.There is much much more abuse at public schools yet I hear no attacks on them to close.

Interesting, because you recently told us that if you found out that your son was gay, you would make him become a priest. How would he ever get into the seminary?

[WIP]

LOL, this is just absurd an untrue. The Catholic Church has purged itself from the abuse of certain Clergy and have changed the practice of admitting most homosexuals from joining the seminary. There have no new cases in quite some time.

Ever hear of the phrase: "subject to pontifical secret?" Probably not, so here is what it means in legal terminology: obstruction of justice. Your pope, then known as Cardinal Ratzinger, gave this order to a number of diocese all over the world in letters, ordering them to keep sex abuse charges against priests from the state authorities until given the go ahead from the Vatican:

Pope Benedict XVI faced claims last night he had 'obstructed justice' after it emerged he issued an order ensuring the church's investigations into child sex abuse claims be carried out in secret.

The order was made in a confidential letter, obtained by The Observer, which was sent to every Catholic bishop in May 2001.

It asserted the church's right to hold its inquiries behind closed doors and keep the evidence confidential for up to 10 years after the victims reached adulthood. The letter was signed by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who was elected as John Paul II's successor last week.

Lawyers acting for abuse victims claim it was designed to prevent the allegations from becoming public knowledge or being investigated by the police. They accuse Ratzinger of committing a 'clear obstruction of justice'.

The letter, 'concerning very grave sins', was sent from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the Vatican office that once presided over the Inquisition and was overseen by Ratzinger.

Cases of this kind are subject to the pontifical secret,' Ratzinger's letter concludes. Breaching the pontifical secret at any time while the 10-year jurisdiction order is operating carries penalties, including the threat of excommunication.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/apr/2...childprotection

So, how many abuse cases were never saw the light of day, and how many are still being suppressed by this policy of official denial?

[Mr.Canada]

Interesting, because you recently told us that if you found out that your son was gay, you would make him become a priest. How would he ever get into the seminary?

Being homosexual doesn't make one a pedophile. Did you know that or are all homosexuals potential pedophiles to you?

[BigAl]

There are many many more abuses at public schools yet no public outcry. Why does nobody care for the little children who are abused at the hands of our teachers? Those poor, poor children.

I would argue that pedophiles in the classroom are just as harshly treated as pedophiles in the seminary...the fundamental difference, I think, is that the Catholic Church is an organization ostensibly based on a very black-and-white conception of Right and Wrong, and they're also ostensibly followers of Jesus Christ who was arguably one of the coolest cats of the last couple millennia -- and I seriously doubt if JC would have condoned the sorts of things some of these priests have been doing. When you make such a big deal of answering to a Higher Authority, clearly people are going to be even more upset when you're not only a dirty child raper but a total hypocrite on top of it.

[guyser]

I would argue that pedophiles in the classroom are just as harshly treated as pedophiles in the seminary...

I highly doubt that.

the fundamental difference, I think, is that the Catholic Church is an organization ostensibly based on denying and hiding pedophile priests and obstruction of justice

Fixed it for you.