85,000 people used the food bank in Calgary last year

[margrace]

This certainly was a revelation on the tv last night

[August1991]

Food bank use has grown by 14.3% since 2001, according to the Ontario Association of Food Banks' recently released Ontario Hunger Report 2007. In Trenton, Ont., (my backyard), it's growing at the astonishing rate of 10% to 15% a month, says the local newspaper.

Surprise, surprise. Did the people who run food banks never hear the expression, "Build it and they will come"?

It's really simple: give stuff away for free and there will be takers. Every merchandiser knows this. That's why stores offer two-for-one sales, free gifts to the first 50 customers, and so on.

Link

As the blogger, Karen Sellick, points out. Food banks are a really dumb and inefficient way to distribute food. The best way to distribute food is through markets (i.e. our current system of for-profit retail grocery stores).

IOW, the best way to help poor people is to give them money and let them go to the local grocery store and buy the food they need. It's crazy to set up a parallel (and inefficient) food distribution system.

I honestly believe that people who defend or set-up food banks (and yes, I include Gerard Kennedy in that group) are fundamentally ignorant about economics.

Edited February 14, 2008 by August1991

[jdobbin]

I honestly believe that people who defend or set-up food banks (and yes, I include Gerard Kennedy in that group) are fundamentally ignorant about economics.

Food Banks came about because the government was not comfortable giving money to poor people. It became policy on the part of the government as part of a "compassionate conservatism" to donate food to churches and other agencies to distribute. In the U.S., government surpluses are donated to food bank.

Gerard Kennedy doesn't defend food banks. He has said they are not the ones who are responsible for want or need. It has been a failure of government policy.

[Drea]

Any person can't just walk into a food bank and get groceries... usually (at least in BC) the family has to be signed up, have proof of low income, and are only allowed to get food once or twice a month.

Food banks are a necessity because money runs out before all the bills are paid... and some people aren't always responsible with their money. Not that I think we should "cover for" those who spend irresponsibly -- but it would be criminal to let families with children go hungry because the parents spent their money unwisely.

Have you seen those commercials on TV, "food or rent". That is the reality for many more than we realize. I donate to the foodbank every time I buy groceries (Salv. Army bin)

[August1991]

Food Banks came about because the government was not comfortable giving money to poor people.

Food banks are a necessity because money runs out before all the bills are paid... and some people aren't always responsible with their money.

Both those comments are patronizing, condescending and truly disrespectful. If you are right, then why do we have welfare? Indeed, according to you, the problem is far more serious than handing over a can of beans to someone.

I urge you to read the following article by Thomas Dalrymple, What is poverty? It appears that you both share his opinion.

What do we mean by poverty? Not what Dickens or Blake or Mayhew meant. Today, no one seriously expects to go hungry in England or to live without running water or medical care or even TV. Poverty has been redefined in industrial countries, so that anyone at the lower end of the income distribution is poor ex officio, as it were—poor by virtue of having less than the rich. And of course by this logic, the only way of eliminating poverty is by an egalitarian redistribution of wealth—even if the society as a whole were to become poorer as a result.

Such redistribution was the goal of the welfare state. But it has not eliminated poverty, despite the vast sums expended, and despite the fact that the poor are now substantially richer—indeed are not, by traditional standards, poor at all. As long as the rich exist, so must the poor, as we now define them.

Certainly they are in squalor—a far more accurate description of their condition than poverty—despite a threefold increase in per-capita income, including that of the poor, since the end of the last war. Why they should be in this condition requires an explanation—and to call that condition poverty, using a word more appropriate to Mayhew's London than to today's reality, prevents us from grasping how fundamentally the lot of "the poor" has changed since then. The poor we shall always have with us, no doubt: but today they are not poor in the traditional way.

[jdobbin]

Both those comments are patronizing, condescending and truly disrespectful. If you are right, then why do we have welfare? Indeed, according to you, the problem is far more serious than handing over a can of beans to someone.

I wish you would look into the history of food banks. You will find that it has been government policy support food banks both in Canada and the U.S. Much of that support came because there was a distrust about people who got money actually spending it on food.

You make it sound like it is the food bank operators who are responsible for the need and want out there.

[Drea]

Both those comments are patronizing, condescending and truly disrespectful. If you are right, then why do we have welfare? Indeed, according to you, the problem is far more serious than handing over a can of beans to someone.

wow -- you read all that into me saying "sometimes people are simply irresponsible, but that doesn't mean their children should go hungry" and "sometimes the money runs out before the month does".

I have had to use the services of a food bank. Been there. Been poor. And was very thankful for what they were able to provide for me and my son. Try living on $324 every two weeks (EI) and see how far it gets you. Of course twenty years ago this would have been enough, but in the 90's it sure wasn't. We ate alot of oatmeal, alot of rice but we survived.

I just didn't sit around whining about my plight -- I did something about it! I went back to college and upgraded my computer skills.

"Poor" is not a life sentence for most.

I urge you to read the following article by Thomas Dalrymple, What is poverty? It appears that you both share his opinion.

He hasn't a clue what it means to do without. So, no I do not believe I share his opinion.

man oh man, you sure can read alot into one post.

And yes, there are people out there who are simply irresponsible with their money. I say food banks are necessary for them and their children; as compassionate people, how can we punish children (not let them eat!) because they have parents with no money smarts?

[oreodontist]

My wife's 17 year old nephew arrived here in Calgary from PEI on Jan 15th. He had 3 jobs lined up by the following Monday and started work at $18/hour. He also gets time and a half any Saturday or Sunday he wants to work.

He had zero skills, is of average intelligence. Not a firebrand but has a decent work ethic. 'If' per chance he was to waste his money on $1 cups of coffee, take out pizza, etc. then the very best thing is for him to go hungry....real hungy. No foodbank..no handouts. Knocked on his ass. The best lesson in life and the next paycheck he'd be first buying a jar of peanut butter, a few loaves of bread and canned soup and a bunch of bananas. ...all for less cost than earned in an hour's work.

Food Banks have their place. Unfortunately they've become enablers to perpetuate irresposibility. I've never accepted a penny of charity in my life. I could write the Kraft Dinner cookbook. No need for most to to be a bum or charity case. Knock on restaurant doors in Calgary and they all need help. The 3rd or 4th one you knocked on would provide a decent meal and some food to take home if you offered to do a few hours of work.

[Drea]

My wife's 17 year old nephew arrived here in Calgary from PEI on Jan 15th. He had 3 jobs lined up by the following Monday and started work at $18/hour. He also gets time and a half any Saturday or Sunday he wants to work.

He had zero skills, is of average intelligence. Not a firebrand but has a decent work ethic. 'If' per chance he was to waste his money on $1 cups of coffee, take out pizza, etc. then the very best thing is for him to go hungry....real hungy. No foodbank..no handouts. Knocked on his ass. The best lesson in life and the next paycheck he'd be first buying a jar of peanut butter, a few loaves of bread and canned soup and a bunch of bananas. ...all for less cost than earned in an hour's work.

He also has no children to feed. Children with irresponsible parents still need to eat -- hence food banks. How long would that loaf of bread and jar of peanut butter (expensive stuff that peanut butter!) go if he had three kids to feed?

Food Banks have their place. Unfortunately they've become enablers to perpetuate irresposibility. I've never accepted a penny of charity in my life.

They are not giving "pennies", they give food.

You would let your children starve because of your misplaced pride? Shame on you.

I could write the Kraft Dinner cookbook. No need for most to to be a bum or charity case. Knock on restaurant doors in Calgary and they all need help. The 3rd or 4th one you knocked on would provide a decent meal and some food to take home if you offered to do a few hours of work.

Yah and all three year olds should have jobs already!

One must prove they are low income and can only take food once or twice a month. How is that perpetuating irresponsibility?

And so what if a few do? Do we let the honest ones starve because of the few who would take advantage?

Edited February 14, 2008 by Drea

[oreodontist]

Peanut butter isn't expensive. $2.69 at Walmart for a litre jar. Day old bread at our bakery for 75 cents a loaf.

Perhaps a bit of homework would help you aquire some positive consumer skills. Spend less time in the foodbank line up and more gathering cans or bottles and you could feed yourself no problem. Then again. No need to be self-sufficient when there are free handouts to perpetuate slothiness.

[M.Dancer]

A number of years ago someone in the Harris gov't in Ontario pegged the food allowance of a single person at $90 a month. There was a great hue and cry at the time saying it was impossible. The funny thing was I had just started at my company so I had no steady sources of income and I had to live on a budget of $1100 a month. Minus rent left me $500....minus my social expenses left me about $75 a month.

That year I leaned to cook pot roasts, jambalaya, garlic stuffed chicken, Chile with sausage, poached Northern white fish.....ad that was the year All my dates with girlfriends were at home with an economical large bottle of hugarian wine, breakfast optional.

The caveat I make with this story is, in order to budget a healthy menu on a shoe string, you have to have a little common sense and culinary skill. I never bought chicken breasts, I bought the whole chicken. I never bought stewing beef, I bought the cheapest roast. I think that people who get find themselves in poverty tend not to have the budgetting skills to begin with and how many people these days make their own chicken ragouts or tourtiers from scratch?

[Drea]

Peanut butter isn't expensive. $2.69 at Walmart for a litre jar. Day old bread at our bakery for 75 cents a loaf.

Perhaps a bit of homework would help you aquire some positive consumer skills. Spend less time in the foodbank line up and more gathering cans or bottles and you could feed yourself no problem. Then again. No need to be self-sufficient when there are free handouts to perpetuate slothiness.

Why do you hate children whose parents are not rich? Why are you angry with those who are "poor"? Foodbanks don't cost you anything. Those of us who want to donate do so with our own money or grocieries.

Do you slam the door when the Salvation Army does their annual "walk and knock"?

"Damn people sucking up resources! Should be born rrrich, like me! says the newbie.

[oreodontist]

Dancer:

Congrats on your ingenuity and adaptability.

We buy almost no prepared food. It's less expensive (not an issue with us) but, more importantly, much healthier.

My wife and I could eat quite nutritiously on $90 each a month. And certainly before we'd accept handouts. In fact, the bottle of wine usually costs more than our food. I often leave the grocery store with an overflowing bag of veggies for just a few dollars. Quality food has become less and less expensive as a % of income in our society while the irony is that many continue to spend more on poor nutritional choices.

How often do we eat fast food? Never. Zilch. We still fill one thermos with coffee and another with homemade soup. So delicious with a loaf of crusty brad. A lowly apple and orange purchased for under a dollar still tastes better than chemical snacks.

One might say the issue is educating those like Drea with poor consumer habits. But is it education? I was taught from grade one that an apple was healthier than a twinkie. They don't know that? 20 cents for a healthy banana or 50 cents plus tax for a chocolate bar? That's to do with education? Folks aren't that stupid as much as a lot of folks have no incentive as long as they can get into the handout lineup.

Edited February 14, 2008 by oreodontist

[guyser]

The caveat I make with this story is, in order to budget a healthy menu on a shoe string, you have to have a little common sense and culinary skill. I never bought chicken breasts, I bought the whole chicken. I never bought stewing beef, I bought the cheapest roast. I think that people who get find themselves in poverty tend not to have the budgetting skills to begin with and how many people these days make their own chicken ragouts or tourtiers from scratch?

I think you are correct here. But learning it is not easy for those that just dont get it....

But one thing, there is a reason no one makes homemade, or otherwise, Tortiere....it sucks. and trust me, I have tried, my mother is part French so I have had to suffer for it.

[M.Dancer]

But one thing, there is a reason no one makes homemade, or otherwise, Tortiere....it sucks. and trust me, I have tried, my mother is part French so I have had to suffer for it.

Mine is worthy of Jehane Benoit (google if you have to). My friends start caging invites to the christmas eve tourtierre in November....observant jews become catholics for the night for a wedge of tourtierre...

I'm not kidding....My one failing is the crust, I buy it at Patachou in Rosedale and my wife rolls it out into this massive ceramic pie dish....but the filling is top sirloin roast, lean ground pork the magic spices.....cinamon, all spice and the otherone....

Had I not learned to cook, I would have been celibate all through the 80s and 90s.....

Edited February 14, 2008 by M.Dancer

[margrace]

Any person can't just walk into a food bank and get groceries... usually (at least in BC) the family has to be signed up, have proof of low income, and are only allowed to get food once or twice a month.

Food banks are a necessity because money runs out before all the bills are paid... and some people aren't always responsible with their money. Not that I think we should "cover for" those who spend irresponsibly -- but it would be criminal to let families with children go hungry because the parents spent their money unwisely.

Have you seen those commercials on TV, "food or rent". That is the reality for many more than we realize. I donate to the foodbank every time I buy groceries (Salv. Army bin)

You are right Drea, people in our area are only allowed to use the food bank 4 times a year without just cause, after that they come in to show how they are spending their money and prove they need it.

[margrace]

Peanut butter isn't expensive. $2.69 at Walmart for a litre jar. Day old bread at our bakery for 75 cents a loaf.

Perhaps a bit of homework would help you aquire some positive consumer skills. Spend less time in the foodbank line up and more gathering cans or bottles and you could feed yourself no problem. Then again. No need to be self-sufficient when there are free handouts to perpetuate slothiness.

What a disgusting thing to say, the closest walmart is 35 miles away, did it ever ocure to you that people who don't have food do not have gas. And the closest bakery is 100 miles away. It nice you don't have to be in these peoples positions.

[margrace]

A number of years ago someone in the Harris gov't in Ontario pegged the food allowance of a single person at $90 a month. There was a great hue and cry at the time saying it was impossible. The funny thing was I had just started at my company so I had no steady sources of income and I had to live on a budget of $1100 a month. Minus rent left me $500....minus my social expenses left me about $75 a month.

That year I leaned to cook pot roasts, jambalaya, garlic stuffed chicken, Chile with sausage, poached Northern white fish.....ad that was the year All my dates with girlfriends were at home with an economical large bottle of hugarian wine, breakfast optional.

The caveat I make with this story is, in order to budget a healthy menu on a shoe string, you have to have a little common sense and culinary skill. I never bought chicken breasts, I bought the whole chicken. I never bought stewing beef, I bought the cheapest roast. I think that people who get find themselves in poverty tend not to have the budgetting skills to begin with and how many people these days make their own chicken ragouts or tourtiers from scratch?

When you have children, have to pay the oil or gas bill for heat and hydr on top of that then maybe you will understand

[margrace]

Dancer:

Congrats on your ingenuity and adaptability.

We buy almost no prepared food. It's less expensive (not an issue with us) but, more importantly, much healthier.

My wife and I could eat quite nutritiously on $90 each a month. And certainly before we'd accept handouts. In fact, the bottle of wine usually costs more than our food. I often leave the grocery store with an overflowing bag of veggies for just a few dollars. Quality food has become less and less expensive as a % of income in our society while the irony is that many continue to spend more on poor nutritional choices.

How often do we eat fast food? Never. Zilch. We still fill one thermos with coffee and another with homemade soup. So delicious with a loaf of crusty brad. A lowly apple and orange purchased for under a dollar still tastes better than chemical snacks.

One might say the issue is educating those like Drea with poor consumer habits. But is it education? I was taught from grade one that an apple was healthier than a twinkie. They don't know that? 20 cents for a healthy banana or 50 cents plus tax for a chocolate bar? That's to do with education? Folks aren't that stupid as much as a lot of folks have no incentive as long as they can get into the handout lineup.

How many children do you have. My husband and I eat for less than that, we love homemade soup but we are retired and live on Government pensions so we don't have much to spend. We do volunteer and help out at the food bank. I do the intake and I have come home it tears, most of the time it is a pretty sad job. Its easy to be judgemental when you don't know what you are talking about. Of course there are people like you here, wouldn't be caught dead supporting the food bank. Thank goodness the other 90% do.

Edited February 14, 2008 by margrace

[Melanie_]

My wife's 17 year old nephew arrived here in Calgary from PEI on Jan 15th. He had 3 jobs lined up by the following Monday and started work at $18/hour. He also gets time and a half any Saturday or Sunday he wants to work.

He had zero skills, is of average intelligence. Not a firebrand but has a decent work ethic. 'If' per chance he was to waste his money on $1 cups of coffee, take out pizza, etc. then the very best thing is for him to go hungry....real hungy. No foodbank..no handouts. Knocked on his ass. The best lesson in life and the next paycheck he'd be first buying a jar of peanut butter, a few loaves of bread and canned soup and a bunch of bananas. ...all for less cost than earned in an hour's work.

Food Banks have their place. Unfortunately they've become enablers to perpetuate irresposibility. I've never accepted a penny of charity in my life. I could write the Kraft Dinner cookbook. No need for most to to be a bum or charity case. Knock on restaurant doors in Calgary and they all need help. The 3rd or 4th one you knocked on would provide a decent meal and some food to take home if you offered to do a few hours of work.

As Drea points out, he doesn't have children. That $18/hour doesn't have to cover child care costs while he is at work, assuming he is able to find a spot in the first place to allow him to go out to work within days of landing in a new city.

[HisSelf]

I honestly believe that people who defend or set-up food banks (and yes, I include Gerard Kennedy in that group) are fundamentally ignorant about economics.

What do you think would be the cost of food riots?

Talk about ignorant about economics!

[HisSelf]

Think of food bank costs as an outcome of economic policy.

How's that for economics?

[guyser]

Mine is worthy of Jehane Benoit

I am a closet chef so I know Benoit.

I'm not kidding....My one failing is the crust, I buy it at Patachou in Rosedale and my wife rolls it out into this massive ceramic pie dish....but the filling is top sirloin roast, lean ground pork the magic spices.....cinamon, all spice and the otherone....

Had I not learned to cook, I would have been celibate all through the 80s and 90s.....

Cheater...Patachou? Yea, I would say they make an "ok" crust. Ha...

I would try yours, but it is the spices that i dont really like.

[guyser]

My wife and I could eat quite nutritiously on $90 each a month.

Yes it can be done. The taste might suck, but nutrition is there.

In fact, the bottle of wine usually costs more than our food. I often leave the grocery store with an overflowing bag of veggies for just a few dollars. Quality food has become less and less expensive as a % of income in our society while the irony is that many continue to spend more on poor nutritional choices.

Fast food is cheaper, thus poor people tend to go for the cost savings.

I am not about to get in a pissing match, but I doubt your actual cost of a "overflowing bag of vegetables" for a few dollars. Unless you count $10 as a few, well then ok. And even at that, it only lasts a couple of days if that.

Tomatoes are $1.49 LB so thats about 2.5 tomatoes, 1 cauliflower is $1.79, Grapes $1.29 Lb which is little more than a handful, tangerines $.99 lb which might be 7 of them.

Now lets project this further, and factor those living outside the GTA, where costs are more to purchase this stuff, if available at all.

Folks aren't that stupid as much as a lot of folks have no incentive as long as they can get into the handout lineup.

Anyone I have knowledge of utilizing the foodbank have never thought like that. I wont say never for obvious reasons, but they swallow their pride for the sake of their children, and get in line for the food.

[HisSelf]

Mine is worthy of Jehane Benoit (google if you have to). My friends start caging invites to the christmas eve tourtierre in November....observant jews become catholics for the night for a wedge of tourtierre...

I'm not kidding....My one failing is the crust, I buy it at Patachou in Rosedale and my wife rolls it out into this massive ceramic pie dish....but the filling is top sirloin roast, lean ground pork the magic spices.....cinamon, all spice and the otherone....

Had I not learned to cook, I would have been celibate all through the 80s and 90s.....

You can't make crust and you attribute your cooking skills to getting laid? Sounds like you've been hanging out with some cheap tarts