Alberta Election

[WCN]

I was off by 10 seats or so. I'll give myself a B.

The PCs did better in the Edmonton area than I thought they would. My Calgary riding went Liberal (I didn't expect it). I voted Green and am glad at least here they topped the NDPoops.

The people have spoken.

You did better them me, I was off by 21

But only 42 or 41% of the people have spoken so it's a pretty bad turnout.

[geoffrey]

What a spanking. Taft is definitely gone. I'm disappointed to see Hinman not be re-elected, however that will likely go to recount (it's like 50 votes or something).

Good for Ed. This results essientially gives him the right to tell the media to go to hell.

[WCN]

Well the election is over and the opposition parties have been weakened greatly. But Stelmach has a hard road a head of him. If the economy continues to go at the same pace there will be many pressures which he'll have to deal with, so easy times are right now. He'll have to come up with a solution to healthcare in next few years, a labour shortage which will be even worse starting in the next few years, not to mention the state of the enviroment (things like water managment and air pollution) as well as the needs of differen't groups which will be demanding money from him. So with a reduced opposition who'll keep the government accountable? the unions? the general public (who about 60% don't give a ****)? This is the problem we have in Alberta. Of all the elections since 1993, this one so important and yet so many people don't care.

[jdobbin]

What a spanking. Taft is definitely gone. I'm disappointed to see Hinman not be re-elected, however that will likely go to recount (it's like 50 votes or something).

Good for Ed. This results essientially gives him the right to tell the media to go to hell.

Truly a huge victory for himself and the PC party but not an unsurprising victory.

[kengs333]

Oh, was there an election in Alberta today? Interesting.

[Dog]

I voted Green

LOL you should have just burnt your ballot it would of had about the same effect .

[HistoryBuff44]

What a spanking. Taft is definitely gone. I'm disappointed to see Hinman not be re-elected, however that will likely go to recount (it's like 50 votes or something).

Good for Ed. This results essientially gives him the right to tell the media to go to hell.

ya i think Hinman lost by 39 votes. With 0 seats its going to be harder for them in the next election as the rules as they stand now say they must have a seat in order to take part in the debate. Perhaps it was volume, but i tried to go to their website a few times and each time it took 3 minutes to get the home page downloaded... thats a no-no. most people wont wait around that long.

I find it so funny how people were predicting a large liberal and NDP increase they both were halved... LOL.

[Bayman35]

41% turnout, awesome LOL now there is democracy in action 20% of people decide for everyone. Nobody is shocked by a Tory majority but people here should be ashamed of themselves for not voting. You can say its because it was a foregone conclusion, they knew the outcome and so on and so forth but in the end low voter turnouts especially this low is just plain senseless.

[kimmy]

Truly a huge victory for himself and the PC party but not an unsurprising victory.

What is surprising is the manner of the victory.

People had expected that the oil royalties review would hurt the PCs in Calgary (as well as the perception that Stelmach is "not one of their own" as Klein was, perhaps).

Instead, the PCs largely held on to Calgary. More unexpected was the PCs taking back the Liberals' foothold in Edmonton.

My impression is that the Calgary oilmen were hoping for the PCs to receive a rebuke in the south-- sending some "Wildrose Alliance" members to the legislature would have probably been the hope-- might have caused Stelmach to back off from measures perceived to be unfriendly to the oilpatch.

The failure of southern voters to send such a message to Stelmach, combined with the retaking of Edmonton, gives Stelmach a powerful endorsement.

-k

[oreodontist]

I'm surprised anyone is 'surprised' by these results. The media tried to make mountain out of molehills and most Albertans just go 'yawn'.

'The oil industry royalty reviews...' the oil industry has zero votes. It's individuals, like my wife and I who work in the industry who vote. We're quite content with the PC party as are most of our colleagues. I voted Green but just to put the issue forward.

Next election most of the Alliance votes will be PC. That will wipe the Liberals off the map.

It's time for the Liberals (should have done it 20 years ago) to dissolve and new centrist party to emerge without the 'Liberal' name. Then that party has to present forward thinking planning that is more than telling Albertans how bad things are when we've never had it so good.

[HistoryBuff44]

41% turnout, awesome LOL now there is democracy in action 20% of people decide for everyone. Nobody is shocked by a Tory majority but people here should be ashamed of themselves for not voting. You can say its because it was a foregone conclusion, they knew the outcome and so on and so forth but in the end low voter turnouts especially this low is just plain senseless.

I agree. It's funny how people complain about the government and then when its time for them to speak, ie election time, they dont.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Nearly six of every ten Albertans decided NOT to vote. The result was a Tory landslide, if you can call it that with 60% of Albertans rejecting the hollow democracy of the province.

Most folks, the majority, decided against participating in the political system for some reason. The task before government opposition is to determine what that reason was. There are only two recognized political parties left in the Alberta Legislature. The extremists from both the left and the right have been marginalized by the public in a manner that strangely puts the Tories in the position of centre. The public has rejected both the left and the right and has stuck with what it knows. At least the overwhelming majority of actual voting citizens did. The vast majority of Albertans is decidedly apathetic for their own reasons. The leadership of all partisan factions was so lackluster that less Albertans came to the polls than the last time. What does that say to people?

[fellowtraveller]

Nearly six of every ten Albertans decided NOT to vote. The result was a Tory landslide, if you can call it that with 60% of Albertans rejecting the hollow democracy of the province.

Most folks, the majority, decided against participating in the political system for some reason. The task before government opposition is to determine what that reason was. There are only two recognized political parties left in the Alberta Legislature. The extremists from both the left and the right have been marginalized by the public in a manner that strangely puts the Tories in the position of centre. The public has rejected both the left and the right and has stuck with what it knows. At least the overwhelming majority of actual voting citizens did. The vast majority of Albertans is decidedly apathetic for their own reasons. The leadership of all partisan factions was so lackluster that less Albertans came to the polls than the last time. What does that say to people?

People keep raising the idiotic strawman of low voter participation, over and over.

And it is idiotic.

Here are the two reasons why people do not vote:

1) they do not care. They likely will never care. Since they invest nothing in getting knowledgable about the candidates or issues, it's just as well they don't go to the polls and put their 'X' inside the little square , since it would be a completely random choice.

2) they do care, but are content with whoever gets elected or conmtent with the staus quo. This is a large group of people, 'the contented'.

You see jerry, if people are engaged, active, interested- they vote. If they are unhappy, they vote. if they want change, they vote.

A whole bunch of Albertans were not engeaged, were not discontented,were not unhappy, did not want change - so they stayed home.

Those that did vote, voted very strongly to endorse the PCs and the current Premier. The Tories win over and over because they appeal to the center. The opposition and whiners here keep parroting some halfassed concept that the democratioc process is on death row in Alberta. Hardly - this Premier was chosen in the most open leadership program imaginable where anybopdy with $5 from any partisan background could and did vote. He just got more of the popular vote than all the parties combined.

What the Oppostiion needs to do is clear and simple- come p with leaders , ideas and programs that have some semblance of interest and appeal to Albertans. So far, it is they who have failed to represent or engage Albertans.

[Bayman35]

People keep raising the idiotic strawman of low voter participation, over and over.

And it is idiotic.

Here are the two reasons why people do not vote:

1) they do not care. They likely will never care. Since they invest nothing in getting knowledgable about the candidates or issues, it's just as well they don't go to the polls and put their 'X' inside the little square , since it would be a completely random choice.

2) they do care, but are content with whoever gets elected or conmtent with the staus quo. This is a large group of people, 'the contented'.

You see jerry, if people are engaged, active, interested- they vote. If they are unhappy, they vote. if they want change, they vote.

A whole bunch of Albertans were not engeaged, were not discontented,were not unhappy, did not want change - so they stayed home.

Those that did vote, voted very strongly to endorse the PCs and the current Premier. The Tories win over and over because they appeal to the center. The opposition and whiners here keep parroting some halfassed concept that the democratioc process is on death row in Alberta. Hardly - this Premier was chosen in the most open leadership program imaginable where anybopdy with $5 from any partisan background could and did vote. He just got more of the popular vote than all the parties combined.

What the Oppostiion needs to do is clear and simple- come p with leaders , ideas and programs that have some semblance of interest and appeal to Albertans. So far, it is they who have failed to represent or engage Albertans.

Won't argue about the conteted issue some were. I was at a "call house" yesterday though and called about 400 people who answered the phone of those about 300 were voting, around 100 said they weren't. Of the 100 about 70 said they were deciding not to vote because they found all the leaders pathetic. Now through comparing noted from the scrutineers later only about 170 actually voted. It was really sad to hear all that though. Time and time again people saying they were on their way out to vote and then just staying at home. People it seems just couldn't be bothered.

[socred]

You see jerry, if people are engaged, active, interested- they vote. If they are unhappy, they vote. if they want change, they vote.

This is the fallacy known as "begging the question".

First they have to have something to vote "for". If people feel that their only choice is between gonorrhea and syphillis, they may choose to stay home.

When William Aberhart presented a real alternative to the existing established political parties in the province, the Social Credit Party was elected in large part due to the highest voter turnout ever.

Every one of these political parties were talking change, but none of them acutally offered it.

There will never be real democracy until there is economic democracy. Ballot box democracy is a sham.

As C.H. Douglas once said, ""The individual voter must be made individually responsible, not collectively taxable, for his vote." ("Realistic Consitutionalism")

[kimmy]

I'm surprised anyone is 'surprised' by these results. The media tried to make mountain out of molehills and most Albertans just go 'yawn'.

'The oil industry royalty reviews...' the oil industry has zero votes.

Indeed. But the industry tried to sell voters on the idea that the royalty review was bad for the industry, or would cost Calgary jobs, or was a slap in the face of Calgary voters, or variations on that theme. I got the impression that they wanted to create worry that it would be bad for employment in the province, and then realizing that the voting public had zero sympathy for the petroleum industry when they're paying a buck a litre for gasoline while oil companies produce record profits, tried to turn it into a north vs south issue.

The results show that neither strategy was successful, obviously.

It's individuals, like my wife and I who work in the industry who vote. We're quite content with the PC party as are most of our colleagues.

Yesterday's results bear that out.

-k

[kengs333]

LOL you should have just burnt your ballot it would of had about the same effect .

Funny, I thought that in a democracy people can vote for the political party that best represents their political outlook; once we start developing a mentality that accepts that voters should only have two, maybe three options then we become like the politcal joke south of the border.

[Wild Bill]

Seems to me that it's always the losers who start crying about voter turnout being poor!

It's as if they're trying to imply that if 60% hadn't stayed home they would have ALL been voting for THEM!

This is not only illogical but frankly absurd!

[Bayman35]

Seems to me that it's always the losers who start crying about voter turnout being poor!

It's as if they're trying to imply that if 60% hadn't stayed home they would have ALL been voting for THEM!

This is not only illogical but frankly absurd!

Listen I don't think that is what any of us are trying to indicate. I am as far left-wing as it gets, and an admitted very proud socialist. That being said I would never say a higher voter turn out would have toppled this government that would be just plain silly. On the other hand what we are saying is that it is a sad statement for Alberta society in general, even Stelmach in an article for the Sun today suggested that the low voter turnout was disappointing and that there are soldiers currently getting killed overseas to preserve our way of life and yet almost 60% couldn't be bothered. I couldn't have cared less if all 58% of them voted Tory, if anything that would have put an even huger stamp of approval on this government. As it stands though 22% of eligible voters just handed out a crushing majority and that is just sad, I could have been happier had they gotten 56% of 70% of all registered voters. Obviously I am not happy with what happened politically but that means nothing compared to the fact that people just could seem to be bothered and that is just sad. If you are content then at least register that at the ballot box and hand your government you are happy with and even heftier mandate but don't stay at home for gods sake most people would have had to travel less then ten blocks to vote!

[HistoryBuff44]

Listen I don't think that is what any of us are trying to indicate. I am as far left-wing as it gets, and an admitted very proud socialist. That being said I would never say a higher voter turn out would have toppled this government that would be just plain silly. On the other hand what we are saying is that it is a sad statement for Alberta society in general, even Stelmach in an article for the Sun today suggested that the low voter turnout was disappointing and that there are soldiers currently getting killed overseas to preserve our way of life and yet almost 60% couldn't be bothered. I couldn't have cared less if all 58% of them voted Tory, if anything that would have put an even huger stamp of approval on this government. As it stands though 22% of eligible voters just handed out a crushing majority and that is just sad, I could have been happier had they gotten 56% of 70% of all registered voters. Obviously I am not happy with what happened politically but that means nothing compared to the fact that people just could seem to be bothered and that is just sad. If you are content then at least register that at the ballot box and hand your government you are happy with and even heftier mandate but don't stay at home for gods sake most people would have had to travel less then ten blocks to vote!

I agree.

statistically speaking those that voted represent a good sample and so had all come out and voted the results would have been similar; maybe 2-3% different.

[Bayman35]

I agree.

statistically speaking those that voted represent a good sample and so had all come out and voted the results would have been similar; maybe 2-3% different.

No offense but we had two NDP MLA's booted by less then 200 votes. Whether you agree with them or not A) The Tories didn't need those two seats because a majority was never in jeopardy and they need some opposition in the leg. That being said when our own leader comes out the day before an election and picks a Tory majority he shot himself in the foot but 2%-3% could have kept Ray Martin and David Eggen in office. Davis was honestly one of the hardest working people I have ever met in my life and the only politician I know that took three years and every day to knock on every door in his riding and there is something to be said for that. Unfortunately I think he was victim to a leadership gaff and two hundred people looked at that headline election day and just said "well if he doesn't believe why should we"

[BornAlbertan]

No offense but we had two NDP MLA's booted by less then 200 votes. Whether you agree with them or not A) The Tories didn't need those two seats because a majority was never in jeopardy and they need some opposition in the leg. That being said when our own leader comes out the day before an election and picks a Tory majority he shot himself in the foot but 2%-3% could have kept Ray Martin and David Eggen in office. Davis was honestly one of the hardest working people I have ever met in my life and the only politician I know that took three years and every day to knock on every door in his riding and there is something to be said for that. Unfortunately I think he was victim to a leadership gaff and two hundred people looked at that headline election day and just said "well if he doesn't believe why should we"

Please...NDP is a joke and the electorate knows it. Listening to an NDPer is like listening to a constant loop of Orphan Oliver begging and Gilbert Gottfried bitching over and over and over again.

[oreodontist]

Please...NDP is a joke and the electorate knows it. Listening to an NDPer is like listening to a constant loop of Orphan Oliver begging and Gilbert Gottfried bitching over and over and over again.

Yes, it is somewhat comical. Intelligence is often defined as the ability to build on knowledge to adjust to changing situations. in contrast, the NDP is like the wind-up toy robot hitting the wall over and over and never learning that no matter how hard it tries, the toy robot isn't going to go through the wall.

One would think that after decades and decades and over a dozen elections both Federally and in Alberta that the NDP would have changed it's losing tactics but NOPE...just keeps trying to walk through the wall over and over.

No Bayman, it's not a leadership gaffe or the press or Albertn's being uninformed, it's the friggin message. But nope, 4 years from now the NDP will preach the same drivel....and get their ass kicked. Federaly the NDP will preach the same drivel and also get their ass kicked in all 27 ridings.

[Bayman35]

Yes, it is somewhat comical. Intelligence is often defined as the ability to build on knowledge to adjust to changing situations. in contrast, the NDP is like the wind-up toy robot hitting the wall over and over and never learning that no matter how hard it tries, the toy robot isn't going to go through the wall.

One would think that after decades and decades and over a dozen elections both Federally and in Alberta that the NDP would have changed it's losing tactics but NOPE...just keeps trying to walk through the wall over and over.

No Bayman, it's not a leadership gaffe or the press or Albertn's being uninformed, it's the friggin message. But nope, 4 years from now the NDP will preach the same drivel....and get their ass kicked. Federaly the NDP will preach the same drivel and also get their ass kicked in all 27 ridings.

Well I think you are right for the most part, although I would say that in both cases losing your seat by less then 200 votes could be attributable to a gaffe on leaderships behalf. The NDP does beat the same drum every four years and believe me there are those of us involved that want "the message" to change. The problem is what does the party want? Do they want influence or do they want government? Most are contented with the former where as some of us aren't. Our message does need to change though from that of social justice every four years to something else. One of my suggestions would have been to not only increase oil royalties but use that money to give people a personal income tax break. After the electorate got over the shock of an NDP government proposing a tax break they might have seen it as a move towards the middle and we might have held at least a couple of our seats. That and the fact that in Edmonton and Calgary the voting percentages were over 50% against the Tories but in our "first past the post" system they gained the majority of the seats. I really think that proportional representation is a far better system of government. I enjoy the way Canada's federal politics are working right now, minority governments force our politicians to work. As for "getting our ass kicked" federally we are still hovering at the same percentages throughout all our federal ridings so I don't know where you are getting your #'s from? That and the fact is if Dion stays on as leader for the next federal election we will probably get more seats due to the fact that the federal Liberals are listless and ineffective. Right now they are proving they are no different then the federal Conservatives which generally speaking means that the left wing of their party will vote for us, it is possible that we might end up with more seats due to the ineffectiveness of the Liberals, and the fact remains the federal Tories still have not gained any substantial #'s in Quebec or Ontario the two provinces where they need to gain traction. Federally speaking I think you are way off, however provincially I will say you are right on the money, message, leadership, and the party needs to change their angle dramatically but we still got over 60,000 votes and can be as proud of that as the Tories are of obtaining a majority with roughly 22% of eligible voters putting them there. There is no doubt our message needs to change because we are far to negative to appeal to the electorate here in Alberta. We need to put a positive message out there because the BC NDP approach of going after the Liberals is far to negative for Albertans. Don't tell me that the more royalties would have scared away investors because frankly taking a look at a Conservative premier Danny Williams took on the oil companies in Newfoundland and won. He forced them to cough up more royalties, build the second platform for offshore drilling in Newfoundland, and build a refinery in Newfoundland. Danny did this because the Newfoundland government bought in on 5% of the companies doing the drilling, which doesn't appear to be much but it has given their government a seat on the board so that they know exactly what is happening and what production is so that royalty rates can be calculated properly and moved up and down on a price sensitive basis so that the windfall income can be shared with both the shareholders and the people of Newfoundland. I think this is an excellent approach from a Conservative premier

[oreodontist]

Bayman.

The CCF morphed into the NDP. It was th party that LISTENED to the farmers...LISTENED to the workers. It didn't preach social justice TO the farmers and workers. In the last half century it has gotten things ass backwards. It's a bunch of hollow intellectuals who disdain what the working man thinks of immigration or captial punishment or a host of other issues. Joe Sixpack and OldMacdonald the farmer are treated as if they are infested with the plague. They are viewed as ignorant bumpkins who must one day see the light.

hint: Didn't work for the NDP 40 years ago and won't happen 4 years from now. The party of Sven Robinson will never be the party of Joe Sixpackor Old Macdonald. Joe Sixpack understands much better than Sven Robinson what his interests are in society. He doesn't need Sven and the gang preaching to him about their brand of 'social justice'.

Edited March 8, 2008 by oreodontist