Global Warming Proven Beyond Shadow of Doubt

jbg · August 7, 2009

No response to my renewed call for panic?

bush_cheney2004 · August 7, 2009

No response to my renewed call for panic?

What, Me Worry?

GostHacked · August 7, 2009

and build tree houses for people and feed them with leaves.

Well with the benefit of being higher up, flooding becomes almost non existant as a problem Unless your tree falls down. Then you should have picked a stronger one.

BC

What, Me Worry?

Indeed, not going to lose any sleep over this sharade that is being trumpeted as global warming. Back in the 70s we were panicing it was going to get a lot colder. Global cooling was the hot topic in the 70s.

Simply is no long term data to support global warming.

bush_cheney2004 · August 7, 2009

....Indeed, not going to lose any sleep over this sharade that is being trumpeted as global warming. Back in the 70s we were panicing it was going to get a lot colder. Global cooling was the hot topic in the 70s.
Simply is no long term data to support global warming.

Agreed, but even if there was long term data, I still would not care one iota. The issue is how to adapt to, not stop so called global warming, or the eventual global cooling (Ice Age). I'm convinced that some of these loons would have tried to save the dinosaurs too.

Edited August 7, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

Bonam · August 7, 2009

Some form of decisive, even panicky action on global warming is in order.¹

"Panicky" action is never the correct course of action. Any action we take should be carefully considered and weighed before being implemented. Such consideration has been happening over the past ~2 decades, as it relates to global warming and our response to it. The fact that global temperatures are rising has been shown incontrovertibly, and the effects of global warming, such as receding glaciers, have been observed directly. That the cause of this warming is at least partially the increased concentration of atmospheric CO2 is obvious. The acidification of the oceans, due to their absorption of increased levels of atmospheric CO2, and the associated negative effects, has also been observed directly.

Jbg, I realize your intent with this thread is to mock the global warming movement, and indeed activists that spread fear or panic are deeply wrong in their approach. But the rational approach is not just to shut one's mind to reality just because some activists are idiots. One must look for themselves at the facts, and the science, if they have the capacity to understand it, and come to their own conclusions. Now in my opinion, as a scientist and engineer, the evidence very strongly supports the fact that CO2 levels are increasing and that the temperature is warming, and that this is at least partially due to human activity.

The next rational question is what, if anything, should be done about it. There is BC2004's approach, don't do anything, and instead adapt to the consequences. And there is the approach of the environmentalist lobby, which is to cut CO2 emissions as rapidly as possible to diminish any potential further warming, without even considering whether the harms and benefits.

And then there is what I believe is the only rational approach, which is to carefully evaluate the effects of temperature on the Earth's capacity to sustain human civilization, determine which temperature is optimum (it may well be quite a bit warmer than it is today, or it may not), and carefully aim our efforts to establish precisely that condition. We certainly have the power and technology to achieve such a goal over the long term. And we certainly could come to a better understanding of what global average temperature would be optimum for the Earth's human carrying capacity if we spent even a fraction of effort on this line of research as we did on the debate on whether or not climate change is happening.

jbg · August 8, 2009

"Panicky" action is never the correct course of action. Any action we take should be carefully considered and weighed before being implemented.

The time for thought is through. Sudden, abrupt and un-deliberated spasms of action are what are needed,

Jbg, I realize your intent with this thread is to mock the global warming movement, and indeed activists that spread fear or panic are deeply wrong in their approach. But the rational approach is not just to shut one's mind to reality just because some activists are idiots. One must look for themselves at the facts, and the science, if they have the capacity to understand it, and come to their own conclusions. Now in my opinion, as a scientist and engineer, the evidence very strongly supports the fact that CO2 levels are increasing and that the temperature is warming, and that this is at least partially due to human activity.

Global cooling was the fad during the 1970's. And I am sure that the people who were farming Greenland and Iceland wished that Al Gore was there to talk temperatures upo when global cooling wrecked their settlements. We are not back to Viking temperature levels.

The next rational question is what, if anything, should be done about it. There is BC2004's approach, don't do anything, and instead adapt to the consequences. And there is the approach of the environmentalist lobby, which is to cut CO2 emissions as rapidly as possible to diminish any potential further warming, without even considering whether the harms and benefits.

I would concentrate on cutting toxins, not taking steps about some far-fetched, hypothetical scare.

And then there is what I believe is the only rational approach, which is to carefully evaluate the effects of temperature on the Earth's capacity to sustain human civilization, determine which temperature is optimum (it may well be quite a bit warmer than it is today, or it may not), and carefully aim our efforts to establish precisely that condition. We certainly have the power and technology to achieve such a goal over the long term. And we certainly could come to a better understanding of what global average temperature would be optimum for the Earth's human carrying capacity if we spent even a fraction of effort on this line of research as we did on the debate on whether or not climate change is happening.

The nub of the problem is that climate has always been fluctuating. That wasn't a problem when Inuits could drift from what's now Nebraska to what's now Nunavut with the retreating glaciers. Moving New York or Toronto, if there is a new Ice Age or the opposite, interglacial may prove more difficult. And that change, in either or both directions, will surely occur, even if the U.S. and Canada shuts down their economy.

Moonlight Graham · August 20, 2009

Agreed, but even if there was long term data, I still would not care one iota. The issue is how to adapt to, not stop so called global warming, or the eventual global cooling (Ice Age). I'm convinced that some of these loons would have tried to save the dinosaurs too.

Would you feel the same if there was clear long-term data that global warming was mostly all man-made?

bush_cheney2004 · August 20, 2009

Would you feel the same if there was clear long-term data that global warming was mostly all man-made?

Yes, because "man" successfully adapted to far more dynamic climate changes in the past.

It is one reason we rule the planet.

jbg · August 21, 2009

Would you feel the same if there was clear long-term data that global warming was mostly all man-made?

I would want to know if the man-made global warming could be stopped at a cost that woudn't far exceed the benefit.

Bryan · August 21, 2009

If CO2 emissions really did cause warming, I'd be burning barrels of oil in my back yard.

daniel · August 21, 2009

I would want to know if the man-made global warming could be stopped at a cost that woudn't far exceed the benefit.

There already was a report published a while back stating that the cost of fixing global warming would sky rocket if we do nothing and that it would far out-weigh any benefit (if any).

Global Warming is now accepted as fact (except for a few hold-outs). Now the deniers are talking adaptation.

Oleg Bach · August 21, 2009

Watching the sky from my roof patio - as the warm winds came from south west - and watching the cooler clouds move towards them from the north east - It was graphic - it was extreme - Then I could see the cell form over the north west section of the GTA - global warming is real - it's not about constantly hot weather - It's about unpredictable violent extremes in weather - as we saw last night ...but at least the filthy city of Toronto got a much needed bath.

bush_cheney2004 · August 21, 2009

Now the deniers are talking adaptation.

...while the alarmists are now talking "climate change" just to cover their bets.

GostHacked · August 21, 2009

Agreed, but even if there was long term data, I still would not care one iota. The issue is how to adapt to, not stop so called global warming, or the eventual global cooling (Ice Age). I'm convinced that some of these loons would have tried to save the dinosaurs too.

That was the thing in the 70s. Global cooling. I am also aware of something that is called global dimming. But anyways.

Daniel

There already was a report published a while back stating that the cost of fixing global warming would sky rocket if we do nothing and that it would far out-weigh any benefit (if any).
Global Warming is now accepted as fact (except for a few hold-outs). Now the deniers are talking adaptation.

Adaptation is always where is has been. Evolution has shown exactly that. Climate does and WILL change. We might be as humans doing something ti influence it, but again, we have a huge fireball in the sky that contributes to most of our issues. Not only that the orbit of the earth is not exactly round, so at some points, the earth will be warmer than normal. Will it last?? No.

I don't dissagree that something needs to be done, we do need to adapt different technologies that don't pollute the air/water/earth as much. We need to adapt ourselves. It is something we as the human race have been doing for thousands of years.

Oleg Bach · August 21, 2009

...while the alarmists are now talking "climate change" just to cover their bets.

What ever suits them - I can't stand the ones who underestimate the self healing power of mother earth - Climate change deniers stick to their guns because they believe it's to late anyway and what the hell - eat drink and be merry..The truth is it only takes a few years to correct - just back off a bit here and there and mother earth will respond..quicker than you think.

daniel · August 21, 2009

What ever suits them - I can't stand the ones who underestimate the self healing power of mother earth...

Oh, mother earth will heal itself - or better stated, reach a new equilibrium. Our problem is that humanity and all we depend on or affect won't be around.

It's as if the earth (or the universe for that matter) belongs to humanity as the Bible claims.

We're alarmists when everything predicted since the '80s is coming true. Meanwhile those who call us alarmists still believe Iraq had WMDs without question.

bush_cheney2004 · August 21, 2009

Oh, mother earth will heal itself - or better stated, reach a new equilibrium. Our problem is that humanity and all we depend on or affect won't be around.

No...that's the alarmist's problem...and a very tough sales job.

It's as if the earth (or the universe for that matter) belongs to humanity as the Bible claims.

The earth doesn't give a crap about alarmists or deniers.

We're alarmists when everything predicted since the '80s is coming true. Meanwhile those who call us alarmists still believe Iraq had WMDs without question.

But we're all not dead from HIV/AIDS as predicted in the 80's. Iraq definitely had WMDs....the alarmists told us that Dick Cheney sold them and had the receipts. Bless their alarmist hearts....

Oleg Bach · August 21, 2009

Just take the time to water the damned plant and make sure the thing thrives ...I bet you ten bucks that if you went into the home of most "invironmentalist" - or as you say "alarmist" - you would not find one living thing - other than a an old cat recovering form heart surgery that cost ten grand. Those that are screaming gloom and doom - do just that - scream and complain...do your little bit - keep something natural alive - steward the place - if each screaming meemie - grew a garden or planted a tree - there would be progress...just like ants in the ant hill - each does just a little and the effect is accumulative. Imagine if all the ants stopped working and stood there screaming that the sky is falling - there would be no ant hill or ants in time.

daniel · August 21, 2009

...Iraq definitely had WMDs.......

See? and now they're trying to blame the people who were against the invasion.

bush_cheney2004 · August 21, 2009

See? and now they're trying to blame the people who were against the invasion.

Why would they do that? Invade away...ding-dong...Saddam is dead, but the alarmists are still pissing up a rope.

Oleg Bach · August 21, 2009

See? and now they're trying to blame the people who were against the invasion.

Not going to work..Dick Cheney held the blue collar military experts in loathing and contempt - He though he could wage war like it was a hostile corporate take over - He was not expert in this area - and it cost thousands of lives - billions of sorely needed domestic dollars...The military in America were against this shit...but they were low class and stupid - and Cheney Rove - Bush - and Rumplestilskin what's his name are so so smart - they screwed up severly.

Moonlight Graham · August 22, 2009

Watching the sky from my roof patio - as the warm winds came from south west - and watching the cooler clouds move towards them from the north east - It was graphic - it was extreme - Then I could see the cell form over the north west section of the GTA - global warming is real - it's not about constantly hot weather - It's about unpredictable violent extremes in weather - as we saw last night ...but at least the filthy city of Toronto got a much needed bath.

I disagree. It's not about unpredictable violent extremes in weather. These events have always happened. You can't blame Katrina or the floods or tornadoes simply on global warming, it's extremely hard to determine absolutely if any isolated individual weather events had anything to do with global warming.

Global warming is about the consistent trend of the earth warming at an unnatural rate due mostly to greenhouse gas emissions, and its effects on the environment.

I freakin' hate it when we have a cool, wet summer or a snowy winter and automatically people blame it on global warming. If i made an abnormally rank fart some people would blame that on global warming too.

Oleg Bach · August 22, 2009

I disagree. It's not about unpredictable violent extremes in weather. These events have always happened. You can't blame Katrina or the floods or tornadoes simply on global warming, it's extremely hard to determine absolutely if any isolated individual weather events had anything to do with global warming.
Global warming is about the consistent trend of the earth warming at an unnatural rate due mostly to greenhouse gas emissions, and its effects on the environment.

I freakin' hate it when we have a cool, wet summer or a snowy winter and automatically people blame it on global warming. If i made an abnormally rank fart some people would blame that on global warming too.

They should stop using the term green house gases. Most people do not even know what a green house is or what if feels like to be in one. Look at the ice caps - what has been there for thousands of years has suddenly in less than one human generation is disappearing. Only a fool would suggest that it's natural and part of some natural cyclical earthly occurance. Natural changes do not take place in a flash of time - they have to be enduced artifically.

No one can grasp the enormity of the amount of heat generated by humanity - nor the sheer volume of gases that enhance the suns rays through absorption of energy- Take a look at your average expressway - or your average city - look form above and see the huge uncountable volume of auto traffic - combine that with air traffic - and a few farting cows and you have such a strain on the atmosphere that is beyond comprehension. If you see a million autos during rush hour (which now is all day long) multiply that by every city on earth - every town etc..It's unbelievable.

We are awash in gases and particulate matter that was not their a century before..a volcano spewing gas and ash is childs play to what humanity is producing...consumerism is out of control in the west - developing nations are rushing headlong into our mistakes..it's a devil may care attitude that abandons the future of the planet and all inhabitants creature plant and man - abandons them to a hell..that can be avoided - but we only care for our lives and that take it with when you die approach is rampant. They crazed consumer and producer not only want to take their money with them when they go - they want to take us and all future generations into oblivion also - If there is a mythcal satan figure that wants to destroy all of creation - then it seems this beast is hard at work as we speak.

For those that look to the stars and hope that their is salvation in some sort of allien life form that travels to us or we escape to it - are insane..there is the chance that there are other life forms out there who are our replacements - but there is also the distinct possibility that earth is fantastically unique - and we ARE THE ONLY LIFE IN EXISTANCE..WE MUST EMBRACE THIS POSSIBLITY - THAT THERE ARE NO GREEN MEN COMING TO KEEP US CREEN

Moonlight Graham · August 22, 2009

I find it hilarious when some people can't grasp the concept that humans can affect the climate and/or environment in a major way with their actions. Do these dolts not remember what happened to the ozone layer? We've messed that up pretty good with the CFC's we were throwing in the air, and our response has scientists predicting an eventual total recovery of the ozone sometime after the middle of this century.