Drug Testing in Schools - Thoughts?

[Drea]

First quote = Pot smoking can be too powerful today, because some of it is laced with crystal meth, which makes it more potent, and more addictive. But the pot smokers smoking it think it's 'good weed'.

Good weed does not make one want to fly or think they can fly. Good weed makes one nice and mellow -- takes ones cares away.

I would instantly know if my weed had cocaine added. .... is this not another reason to legalize it? To keep it safe from those who would add that crap? No one adds weird stuff to a bottle of vodka in the liquor store... IMO pot should be safely available in liquor stores.

Last quote = wrong. Pot can cause psychosis in some people.

Yes, Margaret Trudeau blames her mental health issues on pot. I've been smoking it for 30 years on and off and have never had a problem.

Some people may be prone to mental health issues and as stated earlier, are more than likely "self medicating".

[guyser]

First quote = Pot smoking can be too powerful today, because some of it is laced with crystal meth, which makes it more potent, and more addictive

Considering pot isnt addictive in a physical sense, perhaps you could link where the meth part came from?

Today, parents need their children's signed consent for medical or criminal information from the age of 12 forward.

But of course the parents can buy their own test kit, swipe the kids keyboard, grab a strand of hair, and send all of it off for analysis.

[Community Advocate]

Even telling the parents won't likely help. It seems most times the parents either don't know or don't care. Perhaps they are doing drugs themselves. Perhaps they simply are ineffective parents! What effective measures are they likely to take at this point?

The problem is really not that some school kids are doing drugs. That's been going on since the 60's or even earlier if you consider alcohol. The problem is bad behaviour. It's a fallacy to think that the simple use of drugs rots their minds into instantly showing behaviour problems. The kids who exhibit bad and violent behavior would likely act no differently if they were totally straight! They are delinquents who happen to do drugs, not angels made into delinquents by the use of drugs.

Sadly, too often today we tend to "touchy-feely" approaches to discipline problems in our schools. These tend to only be effective in textbooks. Teachers have been severely limited in how they can respond to bad behaviour. Not surprising, with no check or balance the bad behaviour becomes more prevalent! No one wants to admit to this. The Emperor has no clothes, after all. So the bad behaviour runs amok but few are willing to talk about it.

1. There are no effective measures when parents find out, unless they live in Alberta. Their hands are tied, just like the police's hands are tied. There is no law.

2. The behaviour is a problem, I'll agree. But bad behaviour can certainly be seriously exacerbated with drug use. Why do you think they call them 'mind-altering' drugs? They alter your mind, and your behaviour. Just look at someone drunk on alcohol - are they acting the way they normally would act? Drugs and alcohol affect behaviour, there's no doubt about that - and for some, that behaviour involves criminal activity.

3. Many are willing to talk about it, the problem is, no one wants to take the blame or do anything about it. It's much easier for parents to blame the teachers, teachers to blame the parents, and everyone to blame the law enforcement and the government. Nothing gets done this way.

[Community Advocate]

Good weed does not make one want to fly or think they can fly. Good weed makes one nice and mellow -- takes ones cares away.

I would instantly know if my weed had cocaine added. .... is this not another reason to legalize it? To keep it safe from those who would add that crap? No one adds weird stuff to a bottle of vodka in the liquor store... IMO pot should be safely available in liquor stores.

No, not in my mind. Legal or not, there will always be drug dealers. It's not like making cigarettes out of tobacco. So, sure, you want the 'safe' pot, get it from the government! See how potent it is. You want the good stuff? Go to your dealer. He knows what to add to make it better. And you may instantly know if there is coke in your pot, AFTER you smoke it. But crystal meth powder has been found in the pot that the police have confiscated. The tested it themselves, and the reports are out. I took my report directly from their mouths in a meeting.

Yes, Margaret Trudeau blames her mental health issues on pot. I've been smoking it for 30 years on and off and have never had a problem.

Some people may be prone to mental health issues and as stated earlier, are more than likely "self medicating".

I never knew about MT, but I do know of other cases. It is particularly prevelent with people who had undiagnosed mental illness, but the stronger drugs can turn a perfect mind into a psychotic mind - such as crystal meth. And, when you have crystal meth mixed with other drugs, you don't really know what you're smoking unless you get it direct from a grower. See, you may not be aware of this, but the whole purpose for the dealers is to make sales and make money, right? Just give that some thought.[/quote]

Edited January 17, 2008 by Community Advocate

[Community Advocate]

Considering pot isnt addictive in a physical sense, perhaps you could link where the meth part came from?

But of course the parents can buy their own test kit, swipe the kids keyboard, grab a strand of hair, and send all of it off for analysis.

Sure, you can begin with this:

http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/sto...e3-9b4894296902

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/saskatchewan/stor...4/pot-meth.html

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/04/19/...angs060419.html

Oh, and where do we sent this strand of hair?

[Community Advocate]

There is no such thing as non-intrusive testing - all testing is intrusive...they have to enter your body to get what they want - we bend over enough already to please the power mongers.

Wrong. Our school uses mouth swabs - a q-tip looking thing that collects saliva. It is a negative option for the kids - we think you're high so you have to go home - unless you are willing to prove us wrong with this little test stick.

On another note, our school district does not send kids home anymore for being high at school so they can go home and smoke more pot. They are mandated to a three day 'treatment' program, where they learn to be more resilient, make better choices, and work out their problems in a drug-free environment. Then, they are followed by the district and monitored until graduation.

This is a proactive measure!

[M.Dancer]

Wrong. Our school uses mouth swabs - a q-tip looking thing that collects saliva. It is a negative option for the kids - we think you're high so you have to go home - unless you are willing to prove us wrong with this little test stick.

On another note, our school district does not send kids home anymore for being high at school so they can go home and smoke more pot. They are mandated to a three day 'treatment' program, where they learn to be more resilient, make better choices, and work out their problems in a drug-free environment. Then, they are followed by the district and monitored until graduation.

This is a proactive measure!

Wow...all my school would do would be to ask you someting like what 6 into 96 time 6 divided by 3...if that didn't work there was the tried and true ...."morris, are you stooo...stoooo..stoooo-ned......? Morris are you freee....freee....freee.......king out.?

[guyser]

Sure, you can begin with this:

Oh, and where do we sent this strand of hair?

Thank you, I had no idea that meth was being added. Never heard of that. Bad, very bad.

As for where to send the hair, the kit comes with a pre labeld bottle to be mailed off for analysis. I only know of them operating in the US.

[Drea]

Yes, this is what I hear from the kids - the purpose is to get 'ripped'. It's fun. . . if nothing serious happens, and until it's too late and an addiction has set in.

You're so cool - you did acid! Wow. I can only imagine how much fun that must have been. Going into a fit of giggles over the word 'the' - sounds like great fun to me!

It's fun. If you don't think so that is your issue, not someone else's. *shrug*

And when my bro and I were just kids we would try to stay up as many hours as possible (we made it for 60 hours one time!) -- causes the giggles too! (recommended for kids 8 to 14)

Thanks for your great advice on ensuring you are somewhere safe when you load up the brain and body with poison mushrooms! I suppose as long as you are somewhere safe, no overdose can happen, everything will be just fine.

My friends' brother was safely in his own living room when his gf had to call an ambulance for an overdose of poison mushrooms. He barely made it out alive. I say most kids are not smart enough to use these illicit drugs safely, if there is such a thing.

I'm not advocating for "illicit" drugs to be legal and available. I am only intereted in the legalization of marijuana. I was describing my experience; I was not advocating that "kids" go out and do acid. I was 30 when I did that half hit of acid. The first time I ever saw mushrooms I was 23. Old enough in my opinion. And yes, I would do it again given the right circumstances.

Perhaps your friend's brother was an idiot. Either that or he had already been drinking and thought himself invincible.

Weed is not in the same category as "other" mind altering substances. Humans have been altering their minds in one way or another from the get go. Why? Because it is enjoyable when done in moderation.

PS: There is no 'safe' stuff.

How do you feel about people drinking? Is alcohol "safe" stuff?

Edited to add:

Morris are you freee....freee....freee.......king out.?

That made me laugh so hard!

Edited January 18, 2008 by Drea

[Community Advocate]

It's fun. If you don't think so that is your issue, not someone else's. *shrug*

Ya, I know, its all fun and games till someone pokes an eye out! lol

And when my bro and I were just kids we would try to stay up as many hours as possible (we made it for 60 hours one time!) -- causes the giggles too! (recommended for kids 8 to 14)

not on drugs, I hope! :angry:

I'm not advocating for "illicit" drugs to be legal and available. I am only intereted in the legalization of marijuana. I was describing my experience; I was not advocating that "kids" go out and do acid. I was 30 when I did that half hit of acid. The first time I ever saw mushrooms I was 23. Old enough in my opinion.

and old enough to know better in mine

And yes, I would do it again given the right circumstances.

What would those be? hmmm, no, don't answer.....lemme guess.........

Perhaps your friend's brother was an idiot. Either that or he had already been drinking and thought himself invincible.

Oh, NO ONE would argue with you on that - especially his family. Mom, Dad, and three out of three sister/half-sisters alcoholics. That's the trouble - he was one of those.

Weed is not in the same category as "other" mind altering substances. Humans have been altering their minds in one way or another from the get go. Why? Because it is enjoyable when done in moderation.

Do I have stupid written on my screen?

How do you feel about people drinking? Is alcohol "safe" stuff?

I don't care about people in general drinking, it doesn't affect me so long as they don't drive. Safe? In moderation, it's good for you.

Edited to add:

That made me laugh so hard! ME TOO! I spit coffee on my screen

[Drea]

not on drugs, I hope!

Nah... just pointing out that even staying up really late can be mind altering (and fun!)

and old enough to know better in mine

Then you probably don't drink either -- as you are old enough to know better.

What would those be? hmmm, no, don't answer.....lemme guess.........

If I could find some from a safe source -- absolutely! Count me in, I want to try it again!

Oh, NO ONE would argue with you on that - especially his family. Mom, Dad, and three out of three sister/half-sisters alcoholics. That's the trouble - he was one of those.

Yet alcohol remains legal and available to our children. Sad that it ruins so very many lives.

Do I have stupid written on my screen?

Oh I never thought that! Naive maybe, stupid never.

How do you feel about people drinking? Is alcohol "safe" stuff?

I don't care about people in general drinking, it doesn't affect me so long as they don't drive. Safe? In moderation, it's good for you.

But it is very very easy to overdose on alcohol. One cannot overdose on marijuana.

ME TOO! I spit coffee on my screen

[Who's Doing What?]

First quote = Pot smoking can be too powerful today, because some of it is laced with crystal meth, which makes it more potent, and more addictive. But the pot smokers smoking it think it's 'good weed'.

Last quote = wrong. Pot can cause psychosis in some people.

Smoking laced pot is way different from smoking just pot. But ofcourse as one of the uninformed you would not know the difference and lump them both together. People who buy pot laced with crystal meth and pcp usually know what they are buying and look specifically for it. People who want to just smoke pot will get seriously pissed if they get someting that is laced with anything without their knowledge.

Pot only causes psychosis if the psychosis already exists. If a person is not already predisposed to a mental illness pot will not cause one.

[Who's Doing What?]

No, not in my mind. Legal or not, there will always be drug dealers. It's not like making cigarettes out of tobacco. So, sure, you want the 'safe' pot, get it from the government! See how potent it is. You want the good stuff? Go to your dealer. He knows what to add to make it better. And you may instantly know if there is coke in your pot, AFTER you smoke it. But crystal meth powder has been found in the pot that the police have confiscated. The tested it themselves, and the reports are out. I took my report directly from their mouths in a meeting.[/color]

What a bunch of misinformed huey! "He knows what to add to make it better" Give me a freaking break. Potency is all about the strain of pot. Sure things can be added but if you are smoking a good strain nothing needs to be added.

Sure some people put crystal meth in their pot. For a crystal meth addict this is a good thing. For a pot smoker they would never go back to the same guy again, unless they actually wanted the cryatal meth high. I would say easily that over 95%(pobably closer to 99%) of all pot smoked in Canada has nothing like Crystal meth ever added to it.

I never knew about MT, but I do know of other cases. It is particularly prevelent with people who had undiagnosed mental illness, but the stronger drugs can turn a perfect mind into a psychotic mind - such as crystal meth. And, when you have crystal meth mixed with other drugs, you don't really know what you're smoking unless you get it direct from a grower. See, you may not be aware of this, but the whole purpose for the dealers is to make sales and make money, right? Just give that some thought.[/quote]

You seem to have a problem distinguishing betwen pot and crytsal meth. To bad for you. I guess you will have to just keep on being misinformed and clueless, knowing only what the propaganda machine spits out.

[M.Dancer]

Given that weed is like $10 a gram and coke is $100...I don't think any dealer is adding it....

[Community Advocate]

Smoking laced pot is way different from smoking just pot. But ofcourse as one of the uninformed you would not know the difference and lump them both together.

Not as uninformed nor naieve as you think! Perhaps i've tried both, and have noticed the difference for myself? Hmmmm, that might be possible.

People who buy pot laced with crystal meth and pcp usually know what they are buying and look specifically for it. People who want to just smoke pot will get seriously pissed if they get someting that is laced with anything without their knowledge.

Unfortunately, most people buying laced pot don't know it's laced - even after they smoke it - they just think it's 'good weed' because they get such a fast high, and it lasts for much longer than the high from 'normal' bud.

Pot only causes psychosis if the psychosis already exists. If a person is not already predisposed to a mental illness pot will not cause one.

Right. Have you any idea how many undiagnosed mental illnesses are out there? Especially among the youth? This is why we tell our kids to be very careful when experimenting with drugs because a) you never know for sure what you're getting, the purpose for a drug dealer is to make as much money as possible, and if you die, they will find another customer, so that's no loss to them, and c) if you are one of those who is easily addicted, you'll be in some trouble like you've never experienced before. If you have any undiagnosed mental disorders or conditions that could be exacerbated by smoking pot, (such as psyhosis) it may worsen your condition.

Some interesting reading for you:

http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/001475.html

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/science/mind/s504050.htm

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19980923/

and some professors say that smoking pot can cause psychosis:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2...ijuana_can.html

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...ienceandHealth/

[Community Advocate]

What a bunch of misinformed huey! "He knows what to add to make it better" Give me a freaking break. Potency is all about the strain of pot. Sure things can be added but if you are smoking a good strain nothing needs to be added.

Of course nothing needs to be added to a good strain. Nothing needs to be added to a poor strain either, if you smoke enough of it, you'll get high, if even for a short time. However, if you are smoking pot laced with CM thinking it's good pot, you could become addicted to the CM, therefore addicted to the pot -physically addicted. Now, if you're a young naieve kid trying pot for the first time, and are unknowingly smoking pot laced with CM, there is the potential for immediate addiction. And, btw, to me whether one has a physical addiction or a psychological addiction, the addiction can be just as harmful either way.

Sure some people put crystal meth in their pot.

And some people put CM in other people's pot.

For a crystal meth addict this is a good thing. Really. I think a good thing for a CM addict would be to get some help with detox and rehab. But, maybe that's just me.

For a pot smoker they would never go back to the same guy again, unless they actually wanted the cryatal meth high.

As I said, the pot smoker may be completely unaware that there was CM in the pot - especially a newbie.

I would say easily that over 95%(pobably closer to 99%) of all pot smoked in Canada has nothing like Crystal meth ever added to it.

In Canada? Hmmmm, I think that's just one of those "85% of statistics are made up" sort of thing. I haven't heard of any national studies in Canada testing pot for CM. I don't know how you could confirm that, but lets say it's true. That still leaves a one-five percent chance that your pot might have CM in it. Want to take that chance? Alright. How about rat poison? Wanna smoke or snort some of that? How about some Draino cyrstals - you can get quite high smoking that, I've heard. So, while the chances are slim, they do exist.

You seem to have a problem distinguishing betwen pot and crytsal meth. To bad for you. I guess you will have to just keep on being misinformed and clueless, knowing only what the propaganda machine spits out.

Interesting perception. I'm actually using quite credible sources to increase my knowledge, and to form my opinions, and have done some study and research and teaching in this area. I have no problem at all distinguishing between CM and MJ. None at all. I am acutely aware of the dangers of many drugs, especially as related to our youth. I have made it my business to work with youth to deter them from even getting involved with drugs from the get-go with parents and students.

And, just for the record, I have been directly involved in a drug intervention in my own family, and there is another on the horizon. I know from personal experience that mandatory rehab can work well. Thing is, you need a clear mind unaltered by drugs in order to reach the person. With an addict, until they have detoxed, you are not working with the person, you are working with the drug.

It's the misinformed and clueless youth and their parents that I am working with to educate them on the harmful effects of drugs.

[eyeball]

If governments don't want their citizens to alter their minds recreationally it shouldn't be peddling alcohol. This way the message it sends would be consistent.

Why waste time talking about the drugs that have already been prohibited when there are only two left to go? With all the technology available to police that wasn't around in Al Capone's day a War on Booze (or tobacco) should be quite winnable.

There's not much point in prosecuting a war if you don't think it can be won is there?

Edited January 19, 2008 by eyeball

[Community Advocate]

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2008/01...4781262-cp.html

perhaps we need to start testing the teachers, and the muffins too!

[jazzer]

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2008/01...4781262-cp.html

perhaps we need to start testing the teachers, and the muffins too!

Not a bad idea, and test the parents as well.

[DrGreenthumb]

Community advocate I have never heard someone as full of shit as you, except for maybe Randy White, is that who you get your info from?

If you want to live in fear of everything be my guest but stop trying to spread your panic disease around to everyone else. If pot IS ever laced with meth it is very very rare, and the blame falls directly on the prohibition. I have beeen buying weed for almost 20 years and have never gotten pot laced with anything. Anybody who gets their drug information from those paid to enforce prohibition and expects that information to be unbiased is a few cans short of a 6 pack. When the cops made this meth laced claim in BC a couple of years ago we in the drug law reform community challenged them to produce the tests that proved it and the cops could not produce any tests to back up their mouths. It would not surprise me in the slightest if they laced some pot themselves so they could produce the results they would like to report. I guess if everyone was free to grow their own plants they could be absolutely sure that there was nothing added to it couldn't they?

Its like the claims that grow ops are such a huge fire risk, totally made up, bullshit to demonize pot people. They want to justify their persecution of a peaceful culture and they have armies of half wits to parrot their propaganda on boards like this and cop-sucking yellow journalists who will print any bullshit that comes out of a cops mouth.

Why are there no dire warnings about the fire risks involved with growing orchids or tomatoes indoors? Are pot plants somehow more flammable? The reason is the fire risk is slim to none. Less than .01% of house fires in Canada are caused by grow ops. Your toaster is a much greater threat.

Edited January 20, 2008 by DrGreenthumb

[BubberMiley]

Even if they are a fire risk, that too is just a result of the wild-west unregulated environment that prohibition maintains.

[DrGreenthumb]

The stupidest argument in favour of prohibition must be that we need to prohibit Cannabis because some people lace it with crystal meth. I say fine, right after we ban alcohol because some people put roofies in other people's drinks. The only problem with this comparison is that alcohol is a dangerous drug on its own, while pot is not dangerous on its own. I've never met a girl who was taken advantage of while under the influence of rophynol, but I have met plenty who feel like they were taken advantage of while drunk.

To the guy who says outdoor pot will turn out just as good as indoor pot if they are clones of the same plant, you might want to take it from someone with actual experience growing indoors and out that indoor always has superior potency if properly looked after. The outdoor can be pretty good, but the chances of getting 75-80 sunny days in a row during flowerring season is pretty slim. The outdoor genetics are exactly the same but indoors you can control all the growing conditions and ensure that the plants are always growing under optimal conditions, by using high intensity lights, dehumidifiers etc. Indoor plants will always be better than outdoor, especially in a canadian climate where it often frosts before the plants are fully mature.. Another reason for this is that indoors you can keep the light/dark cycle at exactly 12/12 for the duration of flowering, thus producing more buds. Keeping the humidity of your flowering room below 30% for the duration of flowering ensures that the plant will produce a lot of crystals to protect the leaves from drying out. The crystals are what make the weed potent.

Saying we need to keep pot illegal because of crystal meth is idiotic. People that say such things are really just admitting that pot is not dangerous enough to justify the persecution of its users. In order to scare people away from pot they must link it with something that actually IS dangerous. That is really like saying we must ban milk because people lace it with kaluha, or we must ban water because some people use it to swallow dangerous pills.

[Pliny]

I know an addiction talking when I see and hear one, Dr. Greenthumb, and yours is not any different.

Having said that, I am in agreement with you that pot should not be illegal, nor heroin, as there may be, in my opinion, legitimate uses for them. Pot is obviously a major part of your life, from the use of it to the social activism your involved in with it.

I am also aware of the biases that prohibitionists like to promote. Thus follows the argument and the swapping of lies we see demonstrated in this thread.

It has to be admitted that drugs, of any sort, affect the biology of an organism, and from that point agreed that their ingestion means to the organism that it is no longer in a normal or natural state. I don't think that point can be argued. So what circumstances in one's life should it be argued that that person should no longer be in a normal or natural state? In order to have "fun"? If "fun" is absent in one's life, and their is a desire to incorporate fun, then perhaps one might consider it. Either that or find some other remedy as to why there is no "fun" in one's life.

The major problem with social or "recreational" drugs is their addictive quality. Smoking cigarettes is addictive, alcohol is addictive, heroin is addictive and pot-smoking is addictive. They can all become problems in one's life.

Your argument that pot-smoking is not harmful is not entirely correct. You yourself must condemn it's use when the safety of others is at stake. No pilot should fly an aircraft under the influence, for example. I'm sure you agree with that and perhaps this is why prohibitionists make the argument against legalization. But really I think their concern is addiction because addicted people justify their use of addictive substances under any and all circumstances. You of course limit your promotion of it's use to recreational or medicinal purposes.

Perhaps you consider the use of marijuana a stabilizing influence in your life and a relief of stress, I have heard that argument many times for cigarettes and heroin and alcohol. Perhaps you are missing information on how to stabilize your life and remove stress from your life. Or perhaps stress is a warning and you are not heeding that warning.

I know though that your life is great as close to perfect as one can get would be perfect if only their wasn't that constant fear or stress of someone picking you up for possession.

As for prohibitionists - they also have an addiction but it is perhaps more of a compulsion. That is in interfering in other peoples lives and telling them how to live. If people don't know by the time they are adults how to live their lives then that is a failure of society, especially education. The nanny state we live in today is their "addiction".

I just thought I would stir up the pot (Pun intended) on this subject. My understanding of addictions comes from an addiction which I overcame. I do not consider peddlers of snake oil remedies to counter addictions having any understanding of addictions and by that I include the allopathic western medical establishment. As they cannot cure addictions, even at fifty percent level, I do not consider them "experts". They may, and I do mean "may", be able to stop a person using a particular substance but even in accomplishing that they do not, in the majority of cases, eliminate a persons compulsion or desire for the substance. The person is condemned to life in a straight jacket of acceptance of the fact he is forever an addict.

Well, must get on with my day. Have a good one!

Edited January 20, 2008 by Pliny

[BubberMiley]

As for prohibitionists - they also have an addiction but it is perhaps more of a compulsion.

Pot smoking is not addictive but it is perhaps more a compulsion. It is extremely habit forming, as anything that provides pleasure can be, but there are absolutely no physical effects from abstaining after chronic use.

I know this from personal experience, where I went nearly 20 years smoking it every single day. I then went to the U.S. on business for two weeks and, because I'm not a fool, I didn't bring any with me across the border. I thought I might be a little edgy and out of sorts at the very least. Absolutely nothing happened, other than some weird dreams. Nothing like the withdrawal effects I get when I don't drink my morning coffee.

[Community Advocate]

I am also aware of the biases that prohibitionists like to promote. Thus follows the argument and the swapping of lies we see demonstrated in this thread.

For the record, I am neither a prohibitionist, nor a liar. Our police have found cyrstal meth in the pot they have confiscated from our kids. I know this as fact from the source.

I don't see where anyone has claimed that pot should be illegal because some has been found to contain cm. It's a warning - a precaution, a truth.

I enjoyed your post - you make a whole lot of sense to me, and you articulate what I'm thinking very well.

Edited January 20, 2008 by Community Advocate