a tale of two cities: calgary and edmonton

aceman · December 18, 2007

hello to all,

On my Edmonton, i drove through Calgary to fill up the car with some fuel suddenly noticing a new sign 'heart of the new west'. I began to ask myself why? calgary has been suffering an identity crises since day 1. ive witnessed calgary 'grow' since the early 80's, seeing the construction boom, olympics, listening to the media beefing it up like it was the second coming of christ, and so on. however i'm still baffled why its such a great place to live. sure, there have been the few who have cashed in with the oil boom in oil rich alberta, so all of a sudden a false excitement in regards to a good life. so everyone thought that moving to calgary would make you rich. its all bs! there are only a handful of people in calgary making real money and for the rest of the wanabees stay, and keep pretending or move to a better place. calgary lacks the soul that a real city inherets from various factors of growth, calgary grew from the truck stops on the trans canada highway(16th avenue) and then sprawle's out from there. The lack of urbanism and culture is evident while driving around the hyped up 17th avenue and downtown core, the false sense of 'dynamic city' is apparent when taking a cruise at 7pm looking for a place to mingle with new friends and cultural stimulation. please mr. brochonier, quit the bs that calgary is a 'city of smiles' when in fact it is the 'city of phonies'. please calgary new and rich does not justify the fact that a city is so great. other factors such as character, community, heart, soul, diversity can all contribute to a well rounded city, all of which calgary does not possess. drive 2 and a half hours north and there you will find edmonton. at first glance edmonton seems to be run down and older that its couterpart from the south. however spend a little time there and you will realize that life is actually fun. people dont fake the smile, and people dont always talk about money, they are just themselve. I have attended festivals, retaurants, hockey games, coffee shops, museums and various events throughout the few years ive spent there then it then it dawned on me that calgary really was a bunch of cowboys after all.

geoffrey · December 25, 2007

Calgary used to be a pretty boring nightlife city, but that's quickly improving. To be honest, just because you don't know of any good places doesn't mean there aren't many out there.

The opportunity in Calgary is beyond ridiculous, compared to anywhere in Canada or maybe the world. I'd never be close to where I'm at in any other Canadian city. Absolutely for sure.

Calgary has better access to outdoor recreation than any other city, with the possible exception of Vancouver.

Your right, Calgary isn't a very urban city. It's alot of suburbia... which makes it highly attractive to those with families. Ya, we don't have a downtown like Montreal or Vancouver or Toronto, but we're also not 2-7 million people. Compared to Edmonton, we have less nightlife because we're a bit more of a mature, professional, white collar city. Edmonton is full of young oil field workers, of course they'll need a few more bars.

Calgary is much safer than Edmonton crime wise as well.

Sure, if you want to sit around and do nothing, Calgary might not be your place. But if you want opportunity, then you've got to be here to enjoy it. Depends on your group of friends and what you decide to emerse yourself in. There is alot of cultural opportunities here, they just may not be as easily accessible or widely promoted as in a younger party city like Edmonton.

Michael Bluth · December 26, 2007

Calgary has better access to outdoor recreation than any other city, with the possible exception of Vancouver.
Your right, Calgary isn't a very urban city. It's alot of suburbia... which makes it highly attractive to those with families. Ya, we don't have a downtown like Montreal or Vancouver or Toronto, but we're also not 2-7 million people. Compared to Edmonton, we have less nightlife because we're a bit more of a mature, professional, white collar city. Edmonton is full of young oil field workers, of course they'll need a few more bars.

Calgary is much safer than Edmonton crime wise as well.

Sure, if you want to sit around and do nothing, Calgary might not be your place. But if you want opportunity, then you've got to be here to enjoy it. Depends on your group of friends and what you decide to emerse yourself in. There is alot of cultural opportunities here, they just may not be as easily accessible or widely promoted as in a younger party city like Edmonton.

Ahhh Geoff, I expected more from you than this post offers.

I should start by saying, as you know, I have lived in both cities recently. I really despise when people from either city slag the other. When it comes right down to it the cities are pretty similar and much more alike than anybody who 'hates' the other city would care to admit.

Onto the differences though...

Calgary more mature? wtf is that?

Calgary much safer than Edmonton? Are you kidding? The statistics show far more similarities than differences.

According to this report link:

Edmonton has a higher homicide rate.

Calgary has a higher rate of domestic violence.

Edmonton has a higher rate of youth involved in property crimes.

Calgary has a higher rate of youth involved in violent crime.

No valid claim can be made for one city being much safer than the other.

There is a lot more to Edmonton than just rig workers. We have a much bigger and more prestigious university than does Calgary. Grant MacEwan is bigger than Mount Royal College. There are more 'other' post-secondary institutions her. More university-aged students means more party spots.

Want to sit around and do nothing? Who said anything about wanting to do that in Edmonton?

Calgary does offer more business opportunities undoubtedly.

However, that doesn't mean Edmonton is devoid of business opportunity. You factor in cost of housing and I better you could get pretty damned close to what you are making in Calgary up here in Edmonton.

The greater variety of cultural opportunities has very little to do with your view of the relative 'age' of Edmonton vis a vis Calgary. Goes back to the bigger university, which means more students, more profs and university staff. All more likely to attend cultural stuff than somebody working in the oil patch. Same can be said for far more government jobs here. I know both are pretty big generalizations, but fair ones I believe. Buddy chasing the dollar just doesn't have the same inclination/time to go see a play.

Edited December 26, 2007 by Michael Bluth

M.Dancer · December 26, 2007

Do either city have 24 hour sidewalks?

CandianWatcher · December 27, 2007

Do either city have 24 hour sidewalks?

No, they are rolled up at eight o'clock at night, except when the Stampede is on, they are left out until eight thirty! :lol:

guyser · December 27, 2007

Do either city have 24 hour sidewalks?

I nominate this as funny post of the year.

We do have a review dont we?

james rahn · January 16, 2008

I find Edmonton to be a lot more culturally diverse. I think Calgary is a nicer looking city than Edmonton, but that's about it. Right now I'm pretty sure Calgary has better municipal leadership than Edmonton does. Sure, Edmonton Mayor Stephen Mandel has invested money in new infrastructure (like the Light Rapid transit extension to Heritage Mall -- which no longer exists), new art gallery over budget? No problemo, here's another-couple dozen million city tax dollars.

"Dear Mayor Mandel, Could city hall possibly scrape together a few more bucks to remove the 2-1/2 feet of snow from the sidewalk around my son's school? You see, every morning there are over 400 kids that need to be dropped off and then picked up later on in the afternoon. When it's twenty below outside, most parents elect to drive their kids to school and with cars, minivans and the huge honkin' 3/4 diesel pickups and SUV's that all those young, bar-hoppin' oilpatch workers drive, it creates just a bit of a hazard for the wee ones..."

"...Thank you for your letter. Unfortunately, we cannot commit money to snow removal that has not been budgeted...."

What a crock of BS!

Edmonton...a formerly great city.

Black Dog · January 16, 2008

Edmonton...a formerly great city.

When?

Don't get me wrong: I'm born'n'bred Edmontonian who bleeds Oiler blue and Eskie green, but even I don't have any illusions about the place. That's why I moved away.

JerrySeinfeld · January 17, 2008

I moved away from Edmonton to Vancouver.

Before my thoughts on differences I would first say that the Edmonton-Calgary feud is pretty goofy when you look at it from the outside looking in. Why? Because they're both mid-sized prairie cities with oil money.

Put it this way: if you were grabbed fresh out of mongolia or sudan or indonesia or some other far away un-prairie like place and dropped into either city from a parachute, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference AT ALL.

Both places have about 1 million people. Both cities are growing at the same rate (Edmonton a bit faster I think). Both have bad architecture, filthy streets, homes built on the cheap, no sense of beauty or longevity with respect to the building of new homes & neighbourhoods.

But far and away the gold medal winner is that people from both cities can't wait to tell you how "the boom is just unbelievable - it's insane....blah blah".

You know I wasn't in Edmonton for like a year and Calgary for like 5. People from those places who I would talk to would always be saying "oh - well you gotta see it NOW...it's CRAZY the growth....etc."

SO I went back to both places - and from my standpoint barely anything has changed at all. Yuo can still shoot a cannon down jasper avenue aftetr 5pm. There are maybe two new high rise condos downtown (there are currently 5 under construction within 1.5 block from me in vancouver). Calgary has a few new suburbs and a couple of new office towers, but it's still boring, lame old calgary.

The final point I'd like to make is about the economy.

Sure there is "money" and "jobs" in Alberta - but so what. I have a job. Most of us do.

Alberta is great for the dregs of society who can't find a job. SO if you live in Fredricton and the fish packing plant just closed down, heck $90K a year in Calgary selling valves sounds pretty damn good. But it's not what I'd call "crazy money". Calgary and Edmonton are both CHALK FULL of people who have never made more than $14 / hour and now can actually afford a mortgage or a truck payment - so to them that's REAL money.

To the rest of us, both cities are frozen tundra with a mediocre paycheque.

james rahn · January 17, 2008

To the rest of us, both cities are frozen tundra with a mediocre paycheque.

Sounds like sour grapes to me. Does sound like you've put a fair deal of thought into it though. Unfortunately, thanks to our hyperactive economy, no one making 14.00 and hour can afford a house! The city of Edmonton is too busy paying for huge rapid transit to nowhere (as per my last post) to build any affordable housing.

Just for the record - it's Edmonton and northern Alberta that have the oil (and the refineries). When it comes right down to it, I think Alberta from about Lacombe northward should be a separate province. That'd show Calgary -- them with their fancy tower!

james rahn · January 17, 2008

When?
Don't get me wrong: I'm born'n'bred Edmontonian who bleeds Oiler blue and Eskie green, but even I don't have any illusions about the place. That's why I moved away.

When? Long before the Oilers! Back when CFRN had a totem pole and log cabin outside their studio on the edge of town in Jasper Place, back when we still had the rathole on 109 street; back when it was called the 'Industrial' airport and not the 'muni' or 'city centre' airport, and pilots would zone in on it by looking for the old dairy downtown witht he giant milk bottle on top of it, back when 630 CHED was still a top 40 station, when the Telus Tower was still the AGT Tower and you could go up to the top (Vista 33) and see the whole city spread out below you in every direction; back when we still had Chicken on the Way and the radio commercials with the dispatcher asking, "Where are you 44 Chicken?". Good times, good times.

Edited January 17, 2008 by james rahn

White Doors · January 17, 2008

SO if you live in Fredricton and the fish packing plant just closed down,

You need to visit the maritimes apparently Jerry.

No fish packing plants in Fredericton. It's no where near the coast.

JerrySeinfeld · January 17, 2008

You need to visit the maritimes apparently Jerry.
No fish packing plants in Fredericton. It's no where near the coast.

I know that I've been there - I just threw out a name it wasn't meant to be accurate it was just making a point about the typical person that would find Alberta attractive.

JerrySeinfeld · January 17, 2008

To the rest of us, both cities are frozen tundra with a mediocre paycheque.
Sounds like sour grapes to me. Does sound like you've put a fair deal of thought into it though. Unfortunately, thanks to our hyperactive economy, no one making 14.00 and hour can afford a house! The city of Edmonton is too busy paying for huge rapid transit to nowhere (as per my last post) to build any affordable housing.

Just for the record - it's Edmonton and northern Alberta that have the oil (and the refineries). When it comes right down to it, I think Alberta from about Lacombe northward should be a separate province. That'd show Calgary -- them with their fancy tower!

No you missed it - the $14/ hour is what most of these people would be making somewhere else in the world - so they're super proud of the $80K or $90K or whatever it is they're pulling in - which is why they like to boast about how life is amazing because they have a late model pickup truck and a mortgage when to many of us this isn't a great deal of money.

Sour grapes? Huh. No it's just an accurate observation from somone who used to live there and left by choice. If it was sour grapes I wouldn't have left in the first place.

This comment is typical of an Albertan. Have you been to Vancouver lately? There are more cranes in a 3 block raduis then there are in the entire city of Edmonton or Calgary.

So not only do we have an immense economic boom, but arguably the most beautiful city in the world with mountains, oceans, beaches, skiing, surfing, sailing etc.

You can have your 6 month winters, flatlands, wheatfields and drywall / vinal sided housing - life is much better on the other side of the rockies thank you very much Which is why i left voluntarily with a smile on my face.

Link to a crisp live morning here in lotusland.

And another.

Don't hurt your back shovelling your walk or scraping the ice off your car windows :lol:

Edited January 17, 2008 by JerrySeinfeld

james rahn · January 17, 2008

This comment is typical of an Albertan. Have you been to Vancouver lately? There are more cranes in a 3 block raduis then there are in the entire city of Edmonton or Calgary.
So not only do we have an immense economic boom, but arguably the most beautiful city in the world with mountains, oceans, beaches, skiing, surfing, sailing etc.

You can have your 6 month winters, flatlands, wheatfields and drywall / vinal sided housing - life is much better on the other side of the rockies thank you very much Which is why i left voluntarily with a smile on my face.

Link to a crisp live morning here in lotusland.

And another.

Don't hurt your back shovelling your walk or scraping the ice off your car windows

I lived in Vancouver for 16 years. When I got the chance to move back to Alberta working for the Coast Guard at Hay River (it's a long story), I jumped at the chance. I'll take snow and sunshine over 11 months of solid rain and a suicide gray sky anyday.

About the construction boom in Vancouver, too bad all of those buildings leak: not good in a rainy climate lol.

I just wish Edmonton had a tower like Calgary. We have tower envy.

JerrySeinfeld · January 17, 2008

I lived in Vancouver for 16 years. When I got the chance to move back to Alberta working for the Coast Guard at Hay River (it's a long story), I jumped at the chance. I'll take snow and sunshine over 11 months of solid rain and a suicide gray sky anyday.
About the construction boom in Vancouver, too bad all of those buildings leak: not good in a rainy climate lol.

I just wish Edmonton had a tower like Calgary. We have tower envy.

11 Months of rain? Ha. More like 3. Sounds like sour grapes.

I'm sorry to hear about your psychologic depression issues, however if you did your research you'd know that statistically vancouver is much dryer and sunnier than Edmonton in the summertime (which, by the way, lasts longer than 4 weeks out here).

Besides, it's not the snow - it's the fact that you spend 50% of your life trapped indoors scratching your dry skin, trying to fix the humidifier and replacing the batteries in your remote car starter.

If you're choosing Hay River over consistently one of the top 3 cities on the planet to live, I think we know where you stand so we basically have nothing more to talk about. :lol:

Edmonton and Calgary? Boring debate: Pretty much the same boing cold dumpy prarie towns. Edmonton v. Vancouver? Now this is a debate I could sink my teeth into for hours....let the games begin!

p.s. Happy gopher hunting

james rahn · January 17, 2008

11 Months of rain? Ha. More like 3. Sounds like sour grapes.
if you did your research you'd know that statistically vancouver is much dryer and sunnier than Edmonton in the summertime (which, by the way, lasts longer than 4 weeks out here).

Besides, it's not the snow - it's the fact that you spend 50% of your life trapped indoors scratching your dry skin, trying to fix the humidifier and replacing the batteries in your remote car starter.

Edmonton and Calgary? Boring debate: Pretty much the same boing cold dumpy prarie towns. Edmonton v. Vancouver? Now this is a debate I could sink my teeth into for hours....let the games begin!

Sure, sure, you get lots of sun in Vancouver in the summer -- in ten minute segments!

Actually, I didn't live in Vancouver, I lived in Burnaby. If you wanna debate Vancouver and Burnaby, you're toast!

I'm glad you brought up the changing the battery in the car starter thing, I just remebered I gotta do that, so thanks. I'll head off to the mall as soon as I dig my garage out (it's snowing here --again). Wouldn't be so bad if city hall could actually get the streets cleared.

White Doors · January 17, 2008

I know that I've been there - I just threw out a name it wasn't meant to be accurate it was just making a point about the typical person that would find Alberta attractive.

gotcha.

Next time you can use 'Port au Basques' or 'Black's harbour'

I just moved from Alberta to NB. I am very happy with the decision to move, but I did enjoy my stay in Alberta.

JerrySeinfeld · January 17, 2008

gotcha.
Next time you can use 'Port au Basques' or 'Black's harbour'

I just moved from Alberta to NB. I am very happy with the decision to move, but I did enjoy my stay in Alberta.

Alberta's people are excellent - right up there with Saskatchewanians and Maritimers. I really miss the down home, blue collar attitudes there.

I find myself caught in no-man's land right now being from Alberta but living in downtown Vancouver.

Van is very trendy, very fashion-forward, polished, professional, youthful, dynamic and cosmopolitan...excellent restaurants etc. Sometimes I find it pretentious - but when I go back to Calgary I find myself chuckling to myself at Calgarians' attempts at "chic". It's kind of a bastardized unpolished version. You'll see a guy wearing a very expensive stylish jacket and then you'll look at his shoes or his belt and they look like he bought them at pay-less. Or at a high end restaurant the waiter will always recomend Yellow Label haha. Little things like that that make me realize I've been surrounded by an even higher level of "haute couture" if you will for some time now and it starts to rub off.

I know - I'm terrible. It's shallow and pretentious - but I'm in the middle ground. On one hand I don't quite fit the Vancouver mold, but on the other I've grown out of good old Alberta in terms of "the finer things".

Edited January 17, 2008 by JerrySeinfeld

fellowtraveller · January 17, 2008

.... I think Calgary is a nicer looking city than Edmonton, but that's about it. ........ (like the Light Rapid transit extension to Heritage Mall -- which no longer exists),

OK, I had to respond to that!

Calgary is brown, brown, burned and ugly . The river valleys are filled with freeways, and very few trees. The Edmonton core, the river valley, is filled with parks and is gorgeous. The rest of both cities is mostly vinyl and stucco suburbs, but overall there is no contest.

And I guess you are more than a little out of touch with the Light Rail. Heritage Mall is being demolished, and a massive high density development being built called Century Park, with 10,000 people living there soon. The station there will also be the turning point to Mill Woods, where over 100,000 people in need of rapid transit will soon benefit.

Somebody else claimed Edmontons downtown was dead?

Baloney.

The center is the scene of a massive influx of residences in the last ten years, particularly near Grant MacEwan and west of 109th street in the Oliver and Grandin areas. The old downtown is also booming with many new condos and services. Next, the area east of 97th will start smoking if the new arena is announced. The U of A just opened a downtown campus with 10,000 students.....

JerrySeinfeld · January 17, 2008

OK, I had to respond to that!
Calgary is brown, brown, burned and ugly . The river valleys are filled with freeways, and very few trees. The Edmonton core, the river valley, is filled with parks and is gorgeous. The rest of both cities is mostly vinyl and stucco suburbs, but overall there is no contest.

And I guess you are more than a little out of touch with the Light Rail. Heritage Mall is being demolished, and a massive high density development being built called Century Park, with 10,000 people living there soon. The station there will also be the turning point to Mill Woods, where over 100,000 people in need of rapid transit will soon benefit.

Somebody else claimed Edmontons downtown was dead?

Baloney.

The center is the scene of a massive influx of residences in the last ten years, particularly near Grant MacEwan and west of 109th street in the Oliver and Grandin areas. The old downtown is also booming with many new condos and services. Next, the area east of 97th will start smoking if the new arena is announced. The U of A just opened a downtown campus with 10,000 students.....

Yea - calgary calling Edmonton ugly is kind of like the pot calling the kettle black.

My theory is that Calgary is just a whole bunch of stripmall-laden millwoods' joined together by smalltime "freeways".

I don't know what your definition of "massive influx" is - but please tell me how many residential towers in excess of 20 floors have been built in downtown Edmonton in the last 5 years. What is it? 2? 4? 6?

Try vancouver - literally dozens and dozens of 30+ story highrise condos an dozens more planned, sold or under construction.....now THAT's massive.

Edited January 17, 2008 by JerrySeinfeld

james rahn · January 17, 2008

The Edmonton core, the river valley, is filled with parks and is gorgeous.
And I guess you are more than a little out of touch with the Light Rail. Heritage Mall is being demolished, and a massive high density development being built called Century Park, with 10,000 people living there soon. The station there will also be the turning point to Mill Woods, where over 100,000 people in need of rapid transit will soon benefit.

Next, the area east of 97th will start smoking if the new arena is announced.

I agree with you on the River Valley. It's just gorgeous! But hey, Calgary has this really cool tower and a Paddleboat at Heritage Park. Canada has the Edmonton stuck-in-the-mud Queen.

With regard to the light rail extension. Why should I be happy my tax dollars are paying for that? I don't live on the South Side, I live on the North Side near CastleDowns, and it doesn't do a thing for me. The money that's going to pay for that LRT to the deceased Heritage Mall and the yet-unbuilt Century Park could be used to clear the snow away from the sidewalks around my son's school. And you say the LRT is next going to Mill Woods? Great! Why is extending the LRT way out there a priority? If that's true, we won't see any effective snow removal, adequate policing or enough affordable housing in Edmonton for the next 15 years!

You want to talk about brown? Talk a look at our streets. There's brown sandy slush all over the place. The city is out there sanding like crazy and doing nothing else.

As far as that new stadium, they'd better hold a plebiscite on that one. That's a multi-billion dollar project. IF they go ahead on that, the city might as well just stop sanding and grading the streets in winter (and repairing them all summer because the snow was never removed in the first place) and sell the police force -- we won't be able to afford either for the foreseable future.

Mayor Stephen Mandel is a former land developer and his priorities since taking office have been clear...multibillion dollar pet projects and the heck with anything else.

I love Edmonton and the people here, but I'm not blind to the problems it's facing.

Edmonton has all the resources to be a great city but it has small-minded leadership with delusions of grandeur.

JerrySeinfeld · January 17, 2008

I agree with you on the River Valley. It's just gorgeous! But hey, Calgary has this really cool tower and a Paddleboat at Heritage Park. Canada has the Edmonton stuck-in-the-mud Queen.
With regard to the light rail extension. Why should I be happy my tax dollars are paying for that? I don't live on the South Side, I live on the North Side near CastleDowns, and it doesn't do a thing for me. The money that's going to pay for that LRT to the deceased Heritage Mall and the yet-unbuilt Century Park could be used to clear the snow away from the sidewalks around my son's school. And you say the LRT is next going to Mill Woods? Great! Why is extending the LRT way out there a priority? If that's true, we won't see any effective snow removal, adequate policing or enough affordable housing in Edmonton for the next 15 years!

You want to talk about brown? Talk a look at our streets. There's brown sandy slush all over the place. The city is out there sanding like crazy and doing nothing else.

As far as that new stadium, they'd better hold a plebiscite on that one. That's a multi-billion dollar project. IF they go ahead on that, the city might as well just stop sanding and grading the streets in winter (and repairing them all summer because the snow was never removed in the first place) and sell the police force -- we won't be able to afford either for the foreseable future.

Mayor Stephen Mandel is a former land developer and his priorities since taking office have been clear...multibillion dollar pet projects and the heck with anything else.

I love Edmonton and the people here, but I'm not blind to the problems it's facing.

Edmonton has all the resources to be a great city but it has small-minded leadership with delusions of grandeur.

Naw. Edmonton has to step it up - and get that new building before calgary does.

It's not multi-billion. It's $300 million, of which Katz will pony up $100 million. Maybe $100 million from corporates and $100 million from 3 levels of gov?

Who knows...but it WILL get done. Thee is the will and the money. Katz could do it himself if it came down to it.

White Doors · January 17, 2008

Jerry, I'm not sure when the last time you were in Calgary was, but I bet you there are more highrises going up (commercial and residential combined) in Calgary right now that there are in Vancouver.

If not, it must be close.

I'll try and see what I can find.