Former Progressive Conservatives

[jdobbin]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...PStory/National

he entire executive and many senior members of the small political party formed by Progressive Conservatives who rejected the merger with the Canadian Alliance have decided to join the Liberals.

The Progressive Canadian Party, which expropriated the PC logo and adhered to the ideals of the old Tory party, will likely continue, said Tracy Parsons, who quit as party leader two weeks ago.

But Ms. Parsons will be taking out a Liberal membership, as will party president Jim Love, the four other members of the executive, several members of the national council, all of the CPC's Quebec organizers and many riding presidents.

The executive made the decision to quit en masse. It was a surprise when the others followed.

There were quite a few former Progressive Conservatives were not happy when their party merged with the Alliance. Some joined the Liberals immediately, some sat on the sidelines, some formed the Progressive party and some continued to call themselves PC in the Senate and elsewhere.

It is hard to say what room is in the Conservative party for some of the Progressive wing of the party, especially those who called themselves "Red Tories." I can't think of a Red Tory in the present Conservatives at all.

It remains to be seen what sort of influence the Progressives will have on the Liberals. Possibly they will see eye to eye on many social issues and take a different tact on some economic ones.

[old_bold&cold]

I am not sure what is more pathetic in this post. The fact that an old PC party did nt want to be part of a new and more inclusive of the times party like the CPC, or that the Liberals would see the droppings of an old no longer viable party joining theirs as something they would want to brag about.

Is Dion so hard up for any good news that he is willing to take the scraps left by the old PC party hardliners, who could not see it in themselves to bend with the times, to the present Liberal party who si not only bending with the times, but also because of the facts that they can not ven come close to running an election. Maybe Shavluk should look at joining the liberals, as he would proably fit right in there. I hope Dion can make this guys into find outstanding Liberals

[scribblet]

That's Joe Hueglin's party isn't it, always thought he and his members were closet liberals, is David orchard part of that too, cos we knew he was no conservative ever.

The Liberals gained a few new members, not sitting MPs....-

[jdobbin]

I am not sure what is more pathetic in this post. The fact that an old PC party did nt want to be part of a new and more inclusive of the times party like the CPC, or that the Liberals would see the droppings of an old no longer viable party joining theirs as something they would want to brag about.

It is obvious from your attitude that there certainly isn't room in your party for the progressive wing of the PC party. Probably another reason why the Tories have sunk to mid 30s in the polls this last week.

[geoffrey]

Nothing like a bunch of big government minded old guys that won't modernize themselves. They'll fit right in with the Liberal party.

[old_bold&cold]

The CPC is a center right party and yes they have center right ideas. That I do not think has ever been in dispute in any of the party's positions. The fact that much of what the liberals did during their last dozen years of power, were things thta were well left of center and that is why today we have a right of center government to pull us back from all the stuff the Liberals went to far on. That is why the crys of all thise who can not live without the government guarantee of a safety net, are all screaming that the sky is falling. The vast majority of people who watched during the last election, knew what they wanted, but they also fell prey to the Harper is far right boogeyman, and so we have a minority government. Harper has made graet progress with that minority government, and will still keep doing so today, even though we all know he really has a majority government, as long as the liberals are afraid to go to the polls. That is not about to change any time soon.

As for the polls go, I said it before and I will again, you are the one who puts so much on the polls. I just smile when Harper jumps ahead, and I watch you then post all these little stories about trivia at best, to try and find anything that may help the Liberals. You really try too hard. Me I have fun doing this and the fact that I see the CPC view on things is an extra hoot. I do not get paid to be here and write all this stuff. I am surprised at the efforsts that the liberal party has made to come on boards like this and the really trivial things thta most of them bring up. To me it just says that even though Dion is about as weak a leader as anyone could hope for, the same corrupt Liberal back room is still at play, and needs to be beat down completely before the Liberals ever get another chance at power. So yes that is my attitude, and if people take exception to it, that is fine, as I probably do the same of their attitude as well. Not that I care but I bet you that Harper will be even higher in the polls come the next month, and even more so again when the Mulroney inquirey starts to fall apart, and that cost will again to pointed to the liberals again wasting my on revenge seeking. You need to quit trying to do this for the money and try doing it for the fun of it. Then you may even see where you are just going too far with things.

[Michael Bluth]

Nothing like a bunch of big government minded old guys that won't modernize themselves. They'll fit right in with the Liberal party.

It's obvious there is no brain power in the Liberal party to come up with innovative ideas to attract large amounts of new members.

I guess their cheerleaders posting about them attracting a couple dozen new members is why they are stuck around the Turner line of 30% national support.

[jdobbin]

As for the polls go, I said it before and I will again, you are the one who puts so much on the polls. I just smile when Harper jumps ahead, and I watch you then post all these little stories about trivia at best, to try and find anything that may help the Liberals. You really try too hard. Me I have fun doing this and the fact that I see the CPC view on things is an extra hoot. I do not get paid to be here and write all this stuff. I am surprised at the efforsts that the liberal party has made to come on boards like this and the really trivial things thta most of them bring up. To me it just says that even though Dion is about as weak a leader as anyone could hope for, the same corrupt Liberal back room is still at play, and needs to be beat down completely before the Liberals ever get another chance at power. So yes that is my attitude, and if people take exception to it, that is fine, as I probably do the same of their attitude as well. Not that I care but I bet you that Harper will be even higher in the polls come the next month, and even more so again when the Mulroney inquirey starts to fall apart, and that cost will again to pointed to the liberals again wasting my on revenge seeking. You need to quit trying to do this for the money and try doing it for the fun of it. Then you may even see where you are just going too far with things.

It seems that as weak as you say Dion is, he is still in a position to form the next government based on the poor performance in the polls by the Tories. The center right plan is just not as widely supported as you seem to think it is. Certainly, it isn't enough to put them into a majority.

Edited November 17, 2007 by jdobbin

[Michael Bluth]

for the polls go, I said it before and I will again, you are the one who puts so much on the polls. I just smile when Harper jumps ahead, and I watch you then post all these little stories about trivia at best, to try and find anything that may help the Liberals. You really try too hard.

Wow, very well said sir.

Any attempts of the Liberals at saying Dion is in position to form Government in the next election shows how weak they really are.

Since the beginning of October the Liberals have averaged 29% in the opinion polls.

Why can't the Liberals break past the low 30s? Ineffective leadership? Lingering stench of corruption? Palpable sense of entitlement?

[Topaz]

It was just a matter of time before that some of the PC 's would join the Liberals no matter who the leader is/was. Harper comes off as bold and cold, do it my way or hit the highway and he can't communicate with the average Canadian. Now I know he has panic attacks and is taking his medicine but he's also a control freak and that doesn't go down with most Canadians, just the reformer/alliance and the cons, who think he's their God! I've been on other forums, and I see how much people do not like this guy and its seems he's is Canada's Bush!

[fellowtraveller]

I'll bet these guys will bring all the gold in their Party coffers too...

That makes $1.78 the Libs have to blow.

Time for an election.

[scribblet]

I disagree, at this stage the Liberals can't win a majority, even by spring - I'd bet on another CPC minority, maybe a little bigger than the current one.

Dion is rationalizing they are waiting for better times but it's a huge climb ahead of them. He is sleeping with the enemy who will pounce any time as they hack away at Liberal credibility

[capricorn]

I'll bet these guys will bring all the gold in their Party coffers too...

That makes $1.78 the Libs have to blow.

But...will those converted members of the Progressive Canadian Party they take out their chequebooks and make a donation to the Liberal Party?

That's what the Liberals need...cash.

[capricorn]

Nothing like a bunch of big government minded old guys that won't modernize themselves. They'll fit right in with the Liberal party.

Maybe they'll sprout the next Liberal leader.

[Moxie]

But...will those converted members of the Progressive Canadian Party they take out their chequebooks and make a donation to the Liberal Party?

That's what the Liberals need...cash.

Buttttttttttttttttttt the liberals are use to using taxpayers money not their own. That's why they can't get enough money together for an election. They are the Natural Leaders of Canada, or so they think, they have a birth right to lead just not pay for the privledge.

Socialist Pie anyone????????????????????????????????? A great Liberal Slogan would be "One hand in my pocket and the other one in societies' pocket."

[Guest coot]

Why can't the Liberals break past the low 30s? Ineffective leadership? Lingering stench of corruption? Palpable sense of entitlement?

Perhaps its the same reason the tories can't break through. Ineffective leadership, sure. Lingering stench of corruption. Check. Palpable sense of entitlement. Absolutely.

[old_bold&cold]

Right now the polls are nothing more then a pitiful batch of griping people, who live and die by 5-10 minute sound bits. As I said before, if I were Harper I would not really want the polls to say that I am high in them. The Liberals will not call an election if they think the polls will only give Harper his majority.

But since this last drop was a hurried poll after there were the calls about Mulroney and Schrieber etc, and that gave a negative bump. But it will not be long before the voters take a moment and think about this, and what they will find is that the party of Brian Mulroney does not exist anymore, and so any of the right or wrong doings from 20 years ago, really mean nothing at all. The PC party has been gone for some years now and as the Liberals in another thread say some of that old PC members are now Liberal members. I guess corruption seeks corruption Dion has once again shown that he has no ideas of what to do and how to stay on track. Only he can lose support when he calls for child poverty to be addressed. Instead he stops mid stream and tries to find dirt on a 20 year old events by a PM who does not even have the same party anymore. It just shows the Liberals are all about seeking revenge and not about anything to do with right and wrong. This will not play well to the voters, and when it all comes out in an election mode, Dion will as usual be the fool in the room. Also the liberal party will be held up again and shown the reasons as why they should never be again considered for government, for a decade or more.

Harper will get his majority, and the Liberals will still be on about how once he has a majority he will kill the Long gun registry, etc.. What they have forgot to note though is that the public is more then a little sick of the money wasted there and killing the registry, is not something most would base their votes on. While for most of rural Canadians it is something they will vote for. The liberals have forgotten to add in the issue fatigue that they have been trying to find any issue with traction. The reason they can not find any traction, is because most voters do not see Harper as some one to fear and they even can and will not fear him with a majority. Even the large cities voters will be having trouble finding issues that they will use to vote for or against someone, to not be in Harpers favour.

For now as I said before Harper would rather a low poll then a very high one, as the liberals will not ever call an election if Harper has high numbers. But Harper will probably wait till spring and then he will have the inquirey well into showing no harm done and no foul, and with this positive bump he may just say that now is the time and call for elections himself. I do not think the voters will hold that against him at all. After all he gave Dion more then enough time to resign and a new leader to take his place, and so the election will be quick and it will also end the Dion saga for the Liberals. Once all the stupidity of needs for minority goverments is aside and Harper has his majority, it will be very hard for the Liberals to threaten him again with the implied scaey messages.

Edited November 18, 2007 by old_bold&cold

[jdobbin]

Right now the polls are nothing more then a pitiful batch of griping people, who live and die by 5-10 minute sound bits. As I said before, if I were Harper I would not really want the polls to say that I am high in them. The Liberals will not call an election if they think the polls will only give Harper his majority.

But since this last drop was a hurried poll after there were the calls about Mulroney and Schrieber etc, and that gave a negative bump. But it will not be long before the voters take a moment and think about this, and what they will find is that the party of Brian Mulroney does not exist anymore, and so any of the right or wrong doings from 20 years ago, really mean nothing at all.

I think you mean three polls, right? All done in the same amount of time that polls are usually done in. One of them, SES is done every six months or so: no rush there. Decima is done every week to two weeks: no rush there Just the regular polling from CP. And Strategic is done every three to four weeks: no rush there.

I think you mean that Harper will not call an election if he can only deliver a minority. And that is what he has been at consistently in two plus years.

[Wild Bill]

Interesting thread! The initial post was much different from my own perspective!

I was one of the first to get a Reform membership in Ontario. I was a Director for the local riding for a couple of terms and was a strong follower of many of the initial party planks as expressed in their "Blue Book".

One of the biggest inducements that inspired me to get involved was Manning's concept of MP's representing their constituents views to Ottawa and not the other (traditional) way around. Free votes and less rigid party solidarity were like a breath of fresh air to not just to myself but to over a million other Ontarioans who voted Reform in several elections.

When the Alliance and PC parties merged all the talk seemed to be about how the poor PC's were being swallowed up by the great big Alliance portion of the new Conservative party. Old stalwarts like Joe Clark chose to leave in disgust, claiming there would be nothing of their values or beliefs left after the merger.

Well, it seems to me that the little PC tail is now wagging the whole dog! Garth Turner and others have been turfed for not toe-ing the party line. Party solidarity is more rigidly imposed than I've ever seen before.

The new Conservative Party has driven a stake through the heart of Manning's dream of a populist party!

Folks like myself seem to be left with a clone of the Mulroney/Campbell party we had bailed on almost 20 years ago! Except for some talk about the Senate we hear nothing about those Blue Book ideas, or even any references to Reform roots! All that history is "down the memory hole, Winston!" and can't be forgotten fast enough.

There used to be a term bandied about in the 80's called "disenfranchised conservative". It referred to a voter who may not have liked the Tories but had no other place to park his ballot. There were always workshops for the troops who did all the grunt work every campaign to develop party policies but they were specifically non-binding and ALWAYS ignored!

Well, while the originator of this thread may have his own perspective to me it seems like things have turned out quite the opposite! I'll now vote for Harper's bunch for the same reason I voted for anyone else over my life - they smell the least, not the best!

If another Manning comes out of the wilderness I'll be gone like a shot! I'm curious to know if there are appreciable numbers of other voters who feel the same as I do.

The thrill is gone, to coin a phrase. Meanwhile, I've got the blues!

[Oleg Bach]

Interesting thread! The initial post was much different from my own perspective!

I was one of the first to get a Reform membership in Ontario. I was a Director for the local riding for a couple of terms and was a strong follower of many of the initial party planks as expressed in their "Blue Book".

One of the biggest inducements that inspired me to get involved was Manning's concept of MP's representing their constituents views to Ottawa and not the other (traditional) way around. Free votes and less rigid party solidarity were like a breath of fresh air to not just to myself but to over a million other Ontarioans who voted Reform in several elections.

When the Alliance and PC parties merged all the talk seemed to be about how the poor PC's were being swallowed up by the great big Alliance portion of the new Conservative party. Old stalwarts like Joe Clark chose to leave in disgust, claiming there would be nothing of their values or beliefs left after the merger.

Well, it seems to me that the little PC tail is now wagging the whole dog! Garth Turner and others have been turfed for not toe-ing the party line. Party solidarity is more rigidly imposed than I've ever seen before.

The new Conservative Party has driven a stake through the heart of Manning's dream of a populist party!

Folks like myself seem to be left with a clone of the Mulroney/Campbell party we had bailed on almost 20 years ago! Except for some talk about the Senate we hear nothing about those Blue Book ideas, or even any references to Reform roots! All that history is "down the memory hole, Winston!" and can't be forgotten fast enough.

There used to be a term bandied about in the 80's called "disenfranchised conservative". It referred to a voter who may not have liked the Tories but had no other place to park his ballot. There were always workshops for the troops who did all the grunt work every campaign to develop party policies but they were specifically non-binding and ALWAYS ignored!

Well, while the originator of this thread may have his own perspective to me it seems like things have turned out quite the opposite! I'll now vote for Harper's bunch for the same reason I voted for anyone else over my life - they smell the least, not the best!

If another Manning comes out of the wilderness I'll be gone like a shot! I'm curious to know if there are appreciable numbers of other voters who feel the same as I do.

The thrill is gone, to coin a phrase. Meanwhile, I've got the blues!

Good read. "Thrill is gone, gone away for good...but I will get over it all, just like a good man should" Who will carry the torch in the wrong parade? My mother who always voted conservative in the old days was an immigrant out of the Ukraine...not really a typical one - more like a young war bride for my Russian father...one thing she figured out about the "conservator" party was...they had the ethics and they had the money - she was a smart and prosperous woman.

[shavluk]

Interesting thread! The initial post was much different from my own perspective!

I was one of the first to get a Reform membership in Ontario. I was a Director for the local riding for a couple of terms and was a strong follower of many of the initial party planks as expressed in their "Blue Book".

One of the biggest inducements that inspired me to get involved was Manning's concept of MP's representing their constituents views to Ottawa and not the other (traditional) way around. Free votes and less rigid party solidarity were like a breath of fresh air to not just to myself but to over a million other Ontarioans who voted Reform in several elections.

When the Alliance and PC parties merged all the talk seemed to be about how the poor PC's were being swallowed up by the great big Alliance portion of the new Conservative party. Old stalwarts like Joe Clark chose to leave in disgust, claiming there would be nothing of their values or beliefs left after the merger.

Well, it seems to me that the little PC tail is now wagging the whole dog! Garth Turner and others have been turfed for not toe-ing the party line. Party solidarity is more rigidly imposed than I've ever seen before.

The new Conservative Party has driven a stake through the heart of Manning's dream of a populist party!

Folks like myself seem to be left with a clone of the Mulroney/Campbell party we had bailed on almost 20 years ago! Except for some talk about the Senate we hear nothing about those Blue Book ideas, or even any references to Reform roots! All that history is "down the memory hole, Winston!" and can't be forgotten fast enough.

There used to be a term bandied about in the 80's called "disenfranchised conservative". It referred to a voter who may not have liked the Tories but had no other place to park his ballot. There were always workshops for the troops who did all the grunt work every campaign to develop party policies but they were specifically non-binding and ALWAYS ignored!

Well, while the originator of this thread may have his own perspective to me it seems like things have turned out quite the opposite! I'll now vote for Harper's bunch for the same reason I voted for anyone else over my life - they smell the least, not the best!

If another Manning comes out of the wilderness I'll be gone like a shot! I'm curious to know if there are appreciable numbers of other voters who feel the same as I do.

The thrill is gone, to coin a phrase. Meanwhile, I've got the blues!

I think you will find that your type of people all voted GREEN PARTY this next time as your description is one of our parties corner stones

and the lack of this corner stone is why I quit the ndp.

All of us in the GREEN PARTY are from all the other parties and just totally sick of the same old , same old!

good post.

[Topaz]

Buttttttttttttttttttt the liberals are use to using taxpayers money not their own. That's why they can't get enough money together for an election. They are the Natural Leaders of Canada, or so they think, they have a birth right to lead just not pay for the privledge.

Socialist Pie anyone????????????????????????????????? A great Liberal Slogan would be "One hand in my pocket and the other one in societies' pocket."

Name one Liberal that took money from the taxpayers that is seating in Parliament today??

[Topaz]

Interesting thread! The initial post was much different from my own perspective!

I was one of the first to get a Reform membership in Ontario. I was a Director for the local riding for a couple of terms and was a strong follower of many of the initial party planks as expressed in their "Blue Book".

One of the biggest inducements that inspired me to get involved was Manning's concept of MP's representing their constituents views to Ottawa and not the other (traditional) way around. Free votes and less rigid party solidarity were like a breath of fresh air to not just to myself but to over a million other Ontarioans who voted Reform in several elections.

When the Alliance and PC parties merged all the talk seemed to be about how the poor PC's were being swallowed up by the great big Alliance portion of the new Conservative party. Old stalwarts like Joe Clark chose to leave in disgust, claiming there would be nothing of their values or beliefs left after the merger.

Well, it seems to me that the little PC tail is now wagging the whole dog! Garth Turner and others have been turfed for not toe-ing the party line. Party solidarity is more rigidly imposed than I've ever seen before.

The new Conservative Party has driven a stake through the heart of Manning's dream of a populist party!

Folks like myself seem to be left with a clone of the Mulroney/Campbell party we had bailed on almost 20 years ago! Except for some talk about the Senate we hear nothing about those Blue Book ideas, or even any references to Reform roots! All that history is "down the memory hole, Winston!" and can't be forgotten fast enough.

There used to be a term bandied about in the 80's called "disenfranchised conservative". It referred to a voter who may not have liked the Tories but had no other place to park his ballot. There were always workshops for the troops who did all the grunt work every campaign to develop party policies but they were specifically non-binding and ALWAYS ignored!

Well, while the originator of this thread may have his own perspective to me it seems like things have turned out quite the opposite! I'll now vote for Harper's bunch for the same reason I voted for anyone else over my life - they smell the least, not the best!

If another Manning comes out of the wilderness I'll be gone like a shot! I'm curious to know if there are appreciable numbers of other voters who feel the same as I do.

The thrill is gone, to coin a phrase. Meanwhile, I've got the blues!

I have only one question for you, if Harper was working his way for a "North America" and not a Canada would you support him??

[Wild Bill]

I have only one question for you, if Harper was working his way for a "North America" and not a Canada would you support him??

Maybe it's a lack of that first morning coffee but I'm afraid I don't understand your question.

Give it to me again more plainly. My brain worked better before the kids came...

[Michael Bluth]

Perhaps its the same reason the tories can't break through.

Can't break through what?

They are in Government. Either headed for a much stronger minority or a majority government.

The Liberals are headed for a bigger defeat than they got handed in 1984.

So now that Mulroney is in trouble the CPC is the ideological heir to the PCs. Let me guess you weren't saying so three months ago.