jdobbin Posted November 16, 2007 Report Posted November 16, 2007 http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...1116?hub=Canada The government has reintroduced a bill to kill the controversial registry for rifles and shotguns.Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day says the Harper government promised to abolish the registry and intends to follow through. He says the bill means that retailers will still have to record sales of long guns, but individuals won't have to register them. People will still need a firearms licence to buy rifles and shotguns. Maybe they'll make it a confidence motion as well. Quote
Michael Bluth Posted November 16, 2007 Report Posted November 16, 2007 Good work. Hopefully that will be another promise kept. It would be interesting if they did make it a confidence motion. Quote No one has ever defeated the Liberals with a divided conservative family. - Hon. Jim Prentice
Wilber Posted November 16, 2007 Report Posted November 16, 2007 Good but they better put the money saved into other anti crime initiatives. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Michael Bluth Posted November 16, 2007 Report Posted November 16, 2007 Good but they better put the money saved into other anti crime initiatives. Fair recommendation. I'm sure they will have some money put aside for new programs. Quote No one has ever defeated the Liberals with a divided conservative family. - Hon. Jim Prentice
jdobbin Posted November 16, 2007 Author Report Posted November 16, 2007 (edited) Good but they better put the money saved into other anti crime initiatives. The Police Chief Association in Canada support the long-gun registry. Police access it 5000 times a day. The last time polling was done on the gun registry, there was huge support in Quebec and in cities across Canada. Rural areas are against the registry, especially in Western Canada. Make it a confidence motion. It is as good an issue to go to an election as any. Edited November 16, 2007 by jdobbin Quote
Fortunata Posted November 16, 2007 Report Posted November 16, 2007 Fair recommendation. I'm sure they will have some money put aside for new programs. Maybe they could put all that money into a propaganda program convincing Canadians they really do want capital punishment so they push to have the issue re-opened. I mean, if the people want it .. what's Steve to do??? Quote
JerrySeinfeld Posted November 16, 2007 Report Posted November 16, 2007 The Police Chief Association in Canada support the long-gun registry. Police access it 5000 times a day.The last time polling was done on the gun registry, there was huge support in Quebec and in cities across Canada. Rural areas are against the registry, especially in Western Canada. Make it a confidence motion. It is as good an issue to go to an election as any. I know a good "anti crime" initiative that wouldn't cost a cent: stop allowing murder prone Jamaican men to immigrate and infest the streets of Toronto. On the confidence motion i wouldn't matter if it was or wasn't. The Libs are scared to death of an election right now. It would pass. Quote
Wilber Posted November 16, 2007 Report Posted November 16, 2007 The Police Chief Association in Canada support the long-gun registry. Police access it 5000 times a day.The last time polling was done on the gun registry, there was huge support in Quebec and in cities across Canada. Rural areas are against the registry, especially in Western Canada. Make it a confidence motion. It is as good an issue to go to an election as any. Of course the police access the registry, it is there, why wouldn't they? That doesn't make it a good use of the resources that have been put into it. All it tells them is that someone at a particular address registered a long gun so there is good chance of one being on the property. Good information but then they always assume there could be a gun on the property. I agree with the registering sales and licensing part however. Not anyone should be able to buy a gun. Rather than pouring billions into a long gun registry, how about a few more prison cells. Found in possession of a hand gun or other restricted weapon, without or in violation of a permit. 1st offense, 3 months. 2nd offense, 6 months. 3rd offense, 1 yr. etc. Mandatory, no plea bargains, hard time. Now that would would give the gang bangers something to think about and do something about gun crimes. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
fellowtraveller Posted November 16, 2007 Report Posted November 16, 2007 Maybe they'll make it a confidence motion as well. Of course it will be, why not? Every opportunity to cram another turd sandwich down Dions craw wil be taken, and taken with relish. Quote The government should do something.
jdobbin Posted November 16, 2007 Author Report Posted November 16, 2007 Of course it will be, why not?Every opportunity to cram another turd sandwich down Dions craw wil be taken, and taken with relish. Well, for one: Harper said no more confidence measures this year. However, since he seems to flip flop weekly, he probably didn't mean it. If it is a confidence motion, I don't think the Liberals will abstain. It is as good a time for an election now as ever. With the Tories in the polls like they are now, there is no guarantee that Harper will win even a minority. Quote
jdobbin Posted November 16, 2007 Author Report Posted November 16, 2007 I know a good "anti crime" initiative that wouldn't cost a cent: stop allowing murder prone Jamaican men to immigrate and infest the streets of Toronto.On the confidence motion i wouldn't matter if it was or wasn't. The Libs are scared to death of an election right now. It would pass. Not this time. The Liberals might have been terrified two weeks ago but the prospects look a whole lot brighter right now. It isn't going to pass. Quote
jdobbin Posted November 16, 2007 Author Report Posted November 16, 2007 Of course the police access the registry, it is there, why wouldn't they? That doesn't make it a good use of the resources that have been put into it. All it tells them is that someone at a particular address registered a long gun so there is good chance of one being on the property. Good information but then they always assume there could be a gun on the property.I agree with the registering sales and licensing part however. Not anyone should be able to buy a gun. Rather than pouring billions into a long gun registry, how about a few more prison cells. Found in possession of a hand gun or other restricted weapon, without or in violation of a permit. 1st offense, 3 months. 2nd offense, 6 months. 3rd offense, 1 yr. etc. Mandatory, no plea bargains, hard time. Now that would would give the gang bangers something to think about and do something about gun crimes. I was against the gun registry when it was introduced. It was a waste of money to get started. However, its costs are not billions now and it is used as a tool by today's police services. Prior to the gun central registry, I believed that each individual firearms certificate should indicate what guns the owner possessed and their serial numbers. The certificate is already a requirement for gun ownership and it is required to show that ID when buying a gun or being asked by law enforcement. No need for a central registry then in my example and the police could charge violators for not registering their weapon on their certificate. It would be cheap and effective. Since we already have the system we do now, the costs are already fixed and the registry is already in place. Police use it every single day and it doesn't cost billions to run now. The Tory decision to remove long guns isn't about continuing runaway costs. Leave it be unless they can show that police really don't want it in place. Quote
noahbody Posted November 17, 2007 Report Posted November 17, 2007 The Police Chief Association in Canada support the long-gun registry. Police access it 5000 times a day. I know he said that, but does anyone think that's accurate? That works out to 1.825 million times per year. Is there porn on the registry or what? Quote
guyser Posted November 17, 2007 Report Posted November 17, 2007 I know he said that, but does anyone think that's accurate? That works out to 1.825 million times per year. Is there porn on the registry or what? It does not sound too high to me. If we do the math , and only using my province (Ont) it could well be true. Lets say TO/GTA cops use it 800 times in one day. Then windsor using it 100 times a day,London maybe 50, Kitchener/Waterloo/Guelph 100 , 100 for T Bay , Ottawa 150= 1300 times. The RoC I can see using it 3500 times. I had a chat with a cop friend of mine (retired) and he said every call to a house would likely generate a search on the registry. Not so much to know if guns are there, but it allows police to march into the house and make demands on the guests. He does not own any guns and that was his reason why. Basically it went like this. You are having a party and it gets a bit loud. The neighbours call the cops, they can then march into the house regardless of you meeting them at the door and saying all is ok and we will turn the music down. Say a couple of your non drinking guests light one up just prior to arrival by said gendarmes......now you are busted. It was a casual conversation we had so I only hope i reiterated it correctly. I am unsure to absolute validity of this though. Quote
DrGreenthumb Posted November 17, 2007 Report Posted November 17, 2007 You conservatives are so screwball, you think its more important for the government to know who has some weed than to know who has guns? C'mon you can't be serious. It is waste of taxpayer dollars to keep track of guns but spending billions per year persecuting people who enjoy Cannabis is not? You conservatives are the ones with screwball priorities. Never let science, fact or common sense deter you from following your "beliefs". I hope the conservative attack ads disgust everyone as much as they disgusted me. I'm not even a Liberal but I'd take Dion for prime minister over Harper any day. Quote
Argus Posted November 17, 2007 Report Posted November 17, 2007 The Police Chief Association in Canada support the long-gun registry. Police access it 5000 times a day. They'll have a look at it since it's there, but it's almost completely unreliable, and not a lot of use. Ask the police if they'd have preferred the government spend $2 billion on more cops and courts and better equipment rather than this stupid program and see what kind of answers you get. [The last time polling was done on the gun registry, there was huge support in Quebec and in cities across Canada. Rural areas are against the registry, especially in Western Canada. Yes, ignorant urban people who know little or nothing about it will shrug and say anything that controls guns is good. But this does virtually nothing to control guns - which they don't seem to understand - and the money spent on it is going down the toilet when it could be going to actually reducing crime. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted November 17, 2007 Report Posted November 17, 2007 Maybe they could put all that money into a propaganda program convincing Canadians they really do want capital punishment so they push to have the issue re-opened. I mean, if the people want it .. what's Steve to do??? Virtually every poll ever taken shows most Canadians want and have always wanted capital punishment. I don't actually support capital punishment - due to my vast lack of respect for the quality of our courts - but even I can recognize that. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted November 17, 2007 Report Posted November 17, 2007 Not this time. The Liberals might have been terrified two weeks ago but the prospects look a whole lot brighter right now. It isn't going to pass. And why do the prospects look a whole lot brighter now? Because you've got the remnants of the Canadian progressive party with you? LOL Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
jdobbin Posted November 17, 2007 Author Report Posted November 17, 2007 (edited) Virtually every poll ever taken shows most Canadians want and have always wanted capital punishment. I don't actually support capital punishment - due to my vast lack of respect for the quality of our courts - but even I can recognize that. The last Angus Reid poll in May showed a majority of Canadians do not support the death penalty. http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/death...four_countries/ There have been several other polls this year that showed the same thing. Edited November 17, 2007 by jdobbin Quote
jdobbin Posted November 17, 2007 Author Report Posted November 17, 2007 And why do the prospects look a whole lot brighter now? Because you've got the remnants of the Canadian progressive party with you? LOL Actually, they look brighter because the Tories are back in the mid 30s in a virtual tie with the Liberals according to at least two polls since Monday. Quote
Argus Posted November 17, 2007 Report Posted November 17, 2007 You conservatives are so screwball, you think its more important for the government to know who has some weed than to know who has guns? It's called "thinking" - which is not something potheads are very good at doing at the best of times. Police must ALWAYS assume there could be a gun on a person or in their house whenever they deal with them. ALWAYS. The gun registry thus serves no useful purpose. In addition, it was very poorly designed and implimented with the result that its data is deeply flawed. No police officer, on checking it, and finding no weapon, would ever alter his behaviour. If it does show a weapon, even then it likely wouldn't change much, as the file could be from whoever used to live at that address, or it might be someone with a similar name, or it might simply be an error. The gun registry is filled with errors, all of them well documented, if you'd cared to look. It is waste of taxpayer dollars to keep track of guns but spending billions per year persecuting people who enjoy Cannabis is not? How about if we just establish a registry keeping track of potheads so employers and would-be could consult it from time to time? And the police, of course, could check it every time they pull someone over or deal with them on some other matter, so they'd be much more thorough in their investigations? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted November 17, 2007 Report Posted November 17, 2007 The last Angus Reid poll in May showed a majority of Canadians do not support the death penalty.http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/death...four_countries/ There have been several other polls this year that showed the same thing. The death penalty waxes and wanes from year to year depending on what the question is that is asked, and what introduction precedes it. However, half of Canadians or more have consistently backed capital punishment over the last forty years. Suggesting it is nothing but hard core conservatives who want capital punishment is silly. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted November 17, 2007 Report Posted November 17, 2007 Actually, they look brighter because the Tories are back in the mid 30s in a virtual tie with the Liberals according to at least two polls since Monday. You still have Dion as a "leader" and he still doesn't speak English. In an election, he would be the focus of news day after day after day - which would inevitably lead to a plunge in Liberal fortunes. He would also be torn apart in any kind of debate with Harper. DO YOU THINK IT'S EASY TO MAKE PRIORITIES!!!??? Guy, if you can't prioritize you have no business being in management at ANY level. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
DrGreenthumb Posted November 17, 2007 Report Posted November 17, 2007 It's called "thinking" - which is not something potheads are very good at doing at the best of times.Police must ALWAYS assume there could be a gun on a person or in their house whenever they deal with them. ALWAYS. The gun registry thus serves no useful purpose. In addition, it was very poorly designed and implimented with the result that its data is deeply flawed. No police officer, on checking it, and finding no weapon, would ever alter his behaviour. If it does show a weapon, even then it likely wouldn't change much, as the file could be from whoever used to live at that address, or it might be someone with a similar name, or it might simply be an error. The gun registry is filled with errors, all of them well documented, if you'd cared to look. How about if we just establish a registry keeping track of potheads so employers and would-be could consult it from time to time? And the police, of course, could check it every time they pull someone over or deal with them on some other matter, so they'd be much more thorough in their investigations? I have an even better idea Argus, how about we keep track of every alcohol purchase, and keep each alcohol purchase in a national database so when employees don't show up for work, their employers can see how much booze they purchased the night before? Also employers could then check how much alcohol the person applying for a job has consumed in the past year and decide not to hire them. Cops could check if alcohol was purchased by a vehicle owner just by checking their plate and use the information as probable cause to pull them over and demand blood/urine samples? Quote
jdobbin Posted November 17, 2007 Author Report Posted November 17, 2007 The death penalty waxes and wanes from year to year depending on what the question is that is asked, and what introduction precedes it. However, half of Canadians or more have consistently backed capital punishment over the last forty years. Suggesting it is nothing but hard core conservatives who want capital punishment is silly. Never suggested it was hard core conservatives. I am saying that in 2007, the majority of Canadians do not support the death penalty. The incremental move away from opposing the death penalty for Canadians charged in other countries is also opposed by Canadians. http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...1112?hub=Canada A new poll indicates respondents oppose -- by a margin of 50 per cent to 43 -- the decision by the Harper government to stop seeking clemency in all cases where Canadians are sentenced to death in foreign counties.The Harris-Decima survey, provided exclusively to The Canadian Press, also suggests sharp divisions on the subject along party lines. Quote
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