Jesus is not the messiah

[kuzadd]

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-87...h&plindex=0

it will shake christian theology

Jesus did not come to earth to be the messiah

Jesus refused to be messiah

Well that should set all of christianity straight.

maybe?

yes?

no?

"I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

sounds like Jesus proclaimed himself saviour?

So what's Hagee's agenda?

dollars?

power?

wackiness?

end-time madness?

Edited November 12, 2007 by kuzadd

[guyser]

[so what's Hagee's agenda?

dollars?

Stop there.

[sharkman]

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-87...h&plindex=0

it will shake christian theology

Jesus did not come to earth to be the messiah

Jesus refused to be messiah

Well that should set all of christianity straight.

maybe?

yes?

no?

sounds like Jesus proclaimed himself saviour?

Congratulations, you have finally taken a position on something that supports Israel! Other than that you seem pretty confused on the issue, perhaps you should study doctrine to find out what Christians and Jesus really think.

[kuzadd]

christianity:The belief in Jesus Christ as Savior of the world.

:Religion derived from the teachings of Jesus Christ.

: A religion, followed by those who worship Jesus Christ

Now Hagee claims

it will shake christian theology

well ya, cause he is saying jesus isn't the messiah

Jesus did not come to earth to be the messiah

Jesus refused to be messiah

how is it a "christian" pastor , could makes these claims, with any credibility?

[M.Dancer]

christianity:The belief in Jesus Christ as Savior of the world.

:Religion derived from the teachings of Jesus Christ.

: A religion, followed by those who worship Jesus Christ

Now Hagee claims

well ya, cause he is saying jesus isn't the messiah

how is it a "christian" pastor , could makes these claims, with any credibility?

Wouldn't be the first time nor the last. See the Jesus Seminars and Tom Harper ......

[kuzadd]

Other than that you seem pretty confused on the issue, perhaps you should study doctrine to find out what Christians and Jesus really think.

I am quite aware of what Christians think and I quoted Jesus for you,perhaps you would care to enlighten us.

Hagee an alleged Christian pastor, is denying Jesus's role as saviour, messiah, entirely negating christianity.

why is Hagee making these types of statements???

[jefferiah]

why is Hagee making these types of statements???

I don't know who Hagee is but I wonder why you would care?

[trex]

Hagee an alleged Christian pastor, is denying Jesus's role as saviour, messiah, entirely negating christianity.

why is Hagee making these types of statements???

By saying that Jesus himself is not the messiah, he agrees with the Jewish view that the Messiah is not yet come. I would hazard to guess that the messiah is actually the Second Coming of Christ, and from here we go into the apocalypse and the end times, make ready the way for the lord and his new kingdom, ans like that!

Republicans love Israel. And the apocalypse...

He also attacks Jimmy Carter for blaming Israel in Carters own book. How dare he, godless sinner Democrat that he is!

[kuzadd]

Wouldn't be the first time nor the last. See the Jesus Seminars and Tom Harper ......

I am familiar with Tom Harpur, thanks.

This is not anywhere near the same.

Looking at who Hagee is, the 'end times' nonsense he promotes, the political power he wields.

The entire doctrine of the end times, requires certain events to take place for jesus the saviour/the messiah to return.

But now Hagee says Jesus is not the messiah?

[kuzadd]

I don't know who Hagee is but I wonder why you would care?

What I wonder is why as a christian you DO NOT care?

[jefferiah]

What I wonder is why as a christian you DO NOT care?

Well what do you want me to do about it?

See you are the one bringing it up. If this is what Mr. Hagee says then I disagree with him. There, what else do you want me to do. I can't tell him what to say. I don't understand, am I supposed to want him executed? What's the deal here Kuzadd? I mean as a Christian I obviously disagree with a lot of things people say, but how can I stop them from saying it. Alot of people say a lot of things. I dont know the man's email so I can't really theologize with him.

Edited November 13, 2007 by jefferiah

[cybercoma]

I am familiar with Tom Harpur, thanks.

This is not anywhere near the same.

Looking at who Hagee is, the 'end times' nonsense he promotes, the political power he wields.

The entire doctrine of the end times, requires certain events to take place for jesus the saviour/the messiah to return.

But now Hagee says Jesus is not the messiah?

Of course he says that, now he has legions of followers that don't know what to look for in the second coming. He could proclaim anyone as the messiah and convince people that the end time events need to begin taking place.... Scary stuff.

[jefferiah]

Of course he says that, now he has legions of followers that don't know what to look for in the second coming. He could proclaim anyone as the messiah and convince people that the end time events need to begin taking place.... Scary stuff.

He has a legion of followers? Ok ill look this up. I didnt watch the youtube video. Slow computer here.

Edited November 13, 2007 by jefferiah

[cybercoma]

This is an interesting piece from his website. Members of his ministry that make monthly donations are considered to have a "salt pact" with Pastor Hagee, here's his commitment to those who've made that pact:

"Our Salt Covenant with you is: we are absolutely committed to change America and the world by being obedient to the Great Commission, to win the lost to Christ, to take America and the world back to the God of our fathers and, in addition, to continually pray for our partners."

(edit: I forgot the link. http://www.jhm.org/partnership.asp )

You can have it in any colour you want, as long as it's black.

Edited November 13, 2007 by cybercoma

[kuzadd]

Of course he says that, now he has legions of followers that don't know what to look for in the second coming. He could proclaim anyone as the messiah and convince people that the end time events need to begin taking place.... Scary stuff.

False prophet?

I dunno he is pretty weird, I see some christians are less then impressed with this stance, since it negates all their beliefs.

But hey, he can sell some books to the end-timers.

You should read up on the cash this guy pulls in, selling his snake oil voodooo.

[margrace]

People get sick, they get old and they are afraid, people such as Heggie skim billions off these poor elderly people and we think its okay????

[kuzadd]

sharkman

Congratulations, you have finally taken a position on something that supports Israel!

Well sharkman, this wasn't supposed to be about Israel.

it was supposed to be about christians?

Why would hagee, make such a statement, as a leader of a very large and influential CHRISTIAN flock, who promotes a unique CHRISTIAN end-time theology.

This is strange to say the least.

In fact, how you could even claim the end time belief supports Israel is beyond me completely.

How any Christian can follow this man, any sane christian that is, is also beyond my comprehension???

http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/pulp/200...esus_is_war.php

Jesus Is War

Mon Nov 05, 2007

The video above gives you an idea of the kind of lunacy that's coming to Miami. John Hagee and his "Christians United for Israel" tour will be here tomorrow night. Hagee and his followers are calling for unilateral war on Iran. Of course, a driving force is their desire for Armageddon -- and they war in the Middle East as their ticket to the End Times.

Hosting the crusaders Tuesday night at the James L. Knight Center is Pastor Guillermo Maldonado, who claims the largest Latino congregation in America. It's called "A Night To Honor Israel." In addition to the regular cast of Krazy Kristian Kooks and Zany Zionists, Hagee's website also promises the attendance of "city leaders." Somebody needs to keep on these people. Might as well be the Pulp.

Jesus is war, but he ain't the messiah, just ask Christian pastor hagee?

crazy times, like the lunacy of the dark ages!!!

[cybercoma]

People get sick, they get old and they are afraid, people such as Heggie skim billions off these poor elderly people and we think its okay????

It's most certainly NOT ok. Him and all the other televangelists should be taken off the air for being con-artists.

[Drea]

It's most certainly NOT ok. Him and all the other televangelists should be taken off the air for being con-artists.

In all other instances con-artists are considered criminals. Now, if I come to your house pretending to raise money for charity, I am committing a crime. Why do we allow televangelists to continue conning people out of their money. My charity "Drea's Dreams" will also get you into heaven if you donate $1000 or more. So why is my con illegal and the televangelist's legal?

[jefferiah]

It's most certainly NOT ok. Him and all the other televangelists should be taken off the air for being con-artists.

While I agree in that I do not like televangelists, I don't think anyone has the right to take them off the air. If you consider it con-artistry, well the same thing could be applied to psychics and people who sell some secret magical self-help technique or anything else. I don't think they actually promise heaven to people who donate money either, Drea. I know that most of them are a tasteless lot and they actually don't seem much different than the psychics to me, but nonetheless people have the freedom to watch them and they have the freedom to say what they want. We have the freedom to disagree.

[cybercoma]

While I agree in that I do not like televangelists, I don't think anyone has the right to take them off the air. If you consider it con-artistry, well the same thing could be applied to psychics and people who sell some secret magical self-help technique...

Yes it can.... and it should, IMHO.

[kuzadd]

http://www.walrusmagazine.com/articles/200...d-the-theocons/

older article from the Walrus magazine. long read, well worth it.

Does this explain the silence from our own "conservative christians" wrt to this nasty comment by Hagee??

Despite that lack of publicity, two thousand evangelicals had made the pilgrimage to this suburban campus, alerted only by Christian broadcasters and church bulletins, to hear a superstar pastor with a direct pipeline to the born-again occupant of the White House. As Hagee confided to a reporter before his Toronto appearance, he first broke bread with George Bush back in the Texas statehouse, “so I know that he is with us.”

Now he has reached the same conclusion about the man ensconced at 24 Sussex Drive.Hagee lauded one of Stephen Harper’s first post-election acts: after Hamas militants “God has promised to bless the man, the church, the nation that blesses the Jewish people,” Hagee purred from the podium. “I am so delighted that Canada’s prime minister immediately denounced Hamas terrorism when he became the leader of this great nation.”

His Toronto host, not to mention his longtime Canadian major-domo, was Canada Christian College president Charles McVety, one of the most outspoken players in this country’s religious right wing. During the last election, as head of a handful of pro-family lobbies including the Defend Marriage Coalition, McVety emerged as a power to be reckoned with. He bought up the rights to unclaimed Liberal websites such as josephvolpe.com and stacked a handful of Conservative nomination contests in favour of evangelical candidates adamantly opposed to same-sex matrimony, a campaign he has vowed to repeat. As Harper navigates the tricky waters of minority rule—keeping the lid on any eruptions of rhetorical fervour from the rambunctious theo-cons in his caucus—it is noteworthy that he has continued to cultivate a man regarded as the lightning rod of the Christian right. Last spring, those around the prime minister drafted McVety to help sell the government’s contentious child-care policy, and on budget day he was the personal guest of Finance Minister Jim Flaherty in the Commons’ vip gallery.

But McVety and others on the religious right are equally convinced that Harper is one of their own. “We’ve got a born-again prime minister,” trumpets David Mainse, the founder of Canada’spremier Christian talk show, 100 Huntley Street. They see him as an image-savvy evangelical who has been careful to keep his signals to them under the media radar.

Harper's church:

East Gate Alliance Church, the unlikely evangelical congregation that Harper attends.

Halfway through the service, Pastor Bill Buitenwerf, who prefers a dark shirt and tie to his clerical collar, finally lopes to the pulpit, counselling his flock not to lose heart when the forces of darkness close in. “There’s moral degradation everywhere,” he begins, rhyming off a list of evils, including abortion, which he plans to protest at a right-to-life rally on Parliament Hill later that week. “It can be discouraging when we try to make a difference in our government,” he says, then catches himself. “Now, I’m not saying anything about our current government.”

East Gate is a member of the Christian and Missionary Alliance, founded in 1887 by a Prince Edward Island–born preacher named Albert Simpson. Infused with a zeal for faith healing and more aggressive evangelizing abroad, Simpson’s breakaway sect was part of what divinity scholars call the holiness movement, which agitated for a return to Methodism’s reformist roots. Now, with more than four hundred thousand members in two thousand churches across the continent, it’s considered squarely in the evangelical mainstream. According to its Statement of Faith, adherents believe the Bible is “inerrant” and the Second Coming is “imminent.” Women are still not accepted for ordination, and a position paper on divorce does not mince words on a related matrimonial subject. “Homosexual unions are specifically forbidden,” it decrees, “and are described in Scripture as manifestations of the basest form of sinful conduct.”

so is it safe to surmise the silence from Christian Harper supporters is self-enforced silence so as not to allow readers here, and lurkers, to understand that Mr. Harper and a rather large faction of his followers are in fact fanatic Christians??

large article worth reading.

Boy, I feel so much better now knowing Hagee, adores Harper, and see's him as one of his own, and it is also good to know religious fanatacism lurks anywhere at all in an alleged.

democracy.

In this case silence appears to speak volumes.

Edited November 15, 2007 by kuzadd

[scribblet]

Well what do you want me to do about it?

See you are the one bringing it up. If this is what Mr. Hagee says then I disagree with him. There, what else do you want me to do. I can't tell him what to say. I don't understand, am I supposed to want him executed? What's the deal here Kuzadd? I mean as a Christian I obviously disagree with a lot of things people say, but how can I stop them from saying it. Alot of people say a lot of things. I dont know the man's email so I can't really theologize with him.

I wondered what the point of this is also, I've heard of Hagee, but I never watch him... who cares what he says, just flip the channel.

[margrace]

I wondered what the point of this is also, I've heard of Hagee, but I never watch him... who cares what he says, just flip the channel.

From the above quote it is easy to see why people are unaware of what is going on. Our own family votes the way these people advise. There is at least one close member who has mental problems, I think they stem from a lot of fear over family relations and beliefs. This is serious and we should pay attention.

[jefferiah]

Yes it can.... and it should, IMHO.

No it shouldnt. You think because you consider it con-artistry and not worth anyone's buck it should be illegal. I agree with your assessment, but what you fail to acknowledge is that people will want the right to put their money where they want. It won't be only the people making money who will complain Cybercoma. It will be people who want to pay for the product and who want the right to buy that product regardless of what you or I think. And that will make you sound like an idiot when you say you are doing it to protect them from being conned.