jefferiah Posted October 9, 2007 Report Posted October 9, 2007 We all get unsolicited mail, true, but not everyone keeps a database of our religious affiliation. Some poeple even feel Well, apparently the Conservatives didn't keep a database of religious affiliation either since the woman herself said "SHE WAS NOT AN OBSERVING JEW" Quote "Governing a great nation is like cooking a small fish - too much handling will spoil it." Lao Tzu
jdobbin Posted October 9, 2007 Author Report Posted October 9, 2007 Well, apparently the Conservatives didn't keep a database of religious affiliation either since the woman herself said "SHE WAS NOT AN OBSERVING JEW" It would appear they were keeping a database of probable religious affiliation. In any event, it was done without consent. Quote
jbg Posted October 9, 2007 Report Posted October 9, 2007 http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national...c8e&k=58596Unsolicited mail that seems to comes from lists people keep makes a lot of people nervous. The fact that the Tories are keeping lists of Jews is rather disturbing. I disagree. I think it's high time that the Liberals in Canada and Democrats in US stop taking Jews for granted. The Conservatives need to show Jews that they are welcome and wanted in party. Reagan and Bush did that in US for Republicans.While Jews don't have good numbers, they tend to be literate, and tend to vote in high numbers. Good supporters to have if you ask my opinion. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jbg Posted October 9, 2007 Report Posted October 9, 2007 This thread is stupid in the extreme and is nothing but a liberal tactic to start shit. It is dumb and mean spirited and an insult to everyone who thinks for themselves. As for how addresses got to be given, hell I am sure that I have had my address given to all kinds of differing religiuos organizations, and I do not complain at Christmas that I receive unsolicited Chirstmas cards from jewish store owners or from the MP for my area. If I did not want it I can throw it out. I would not run to the opposition party and claim that these people are keeping track of christians. That only happens in the dirty liberal tactics room now doesn't it. Scarey, scarey liberal backroomers, you know the guys who taught Chretien all the dirty tricks, still there trying to suck the tit of the tax payers, ready to again screw them over if given half the chance.Jdobbin is a poster of good will so that goes a bit far. Again speaking for myself though, I have an identifiably Jewish name and in an identifiably Jewish profession. I don't get apoplectic when a non-Jewish judge wishes me a happy Rosh Hashonah. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jdobbin Posted October 9, 2007 Author Report Posted October 9, 2007 I disagree. I think it's high time that the Liberals in Canada and Democrats in US stop taking Jews for granted. The Conservatives need to show Jews that they are welcome and wanted in party. Reagan and Bush did that in US for Republicans.While Jews don't have good numbers, they tend to be literate, and tend to vote in high numbers. Good supporters to have if you ask my opinion. It isn't the reaching out that is the issue, it is the issue of privacy and databases that I find concerning. Clearly, there are people who found being on a mailing list based on their religion where they gave no consent an issue. Quote
Michael Bluth Posted October 9, 2007 Report Posted October 9, 2007 I am sorry JD but you can not have it both ways. It is obvious that the whole posting has a liberal slant and the things it implies are also done with a liberal slant on it. But everyone here knows this and yes they are riled at you, who usually is not this hard headed, but in this case you are wrong and need to just accept the fact that maybe this thread and its implied title was not the best choice you could have made. As for the body of the post you made, you may now want to get away from it, but yes it is very hard to do. OB&C there is no use pursuing this issue. Had the vast majority of posters here started a thread with such an inflammatory and unfounded attack aimed at one of the parties the thread would have been shut down or at least had the title changed. However, this thread has survived and the op hasn't received a public warning for starting a thread of this nature. I do find this thread heartening as the majority of the posts in the thread, aside from the 1/3rd of the thread posted by the op, have taken offence to the tone and nature of the thread title and the original post. Quote No one has ever defeated the Liberals with a divided conservative family. - Hon. Jim Prentice
jbg Posted October 9, 2007 Report Posted October 9, 2007 I do find this thread heartening as the majority of the posts in the thread, aside from the 1/3rd of the thread posted by the op, have taken offence to the tone and nature of the thread title and the original post.Again, I thoroughly disagree with the OP's premise, but it is a worthy topic for discussion. Unfortunately, the carveup of society into ethnic groups is a fact of life. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jdobbin Posted October 9, 2007 Author Report Posted October 9, 2007 Jdobbin is a poster of good will so that goes a bit far. Again speaking for myself though, I have an identifiably Jewish name and in an identifiably Jewish profession. I don't get apoplectic when a non-Jewish judge wishes me a happy Rosh Hashonah. But do you have concern about people gathering data on you based on information that you have not consented to give? Would you be upset if someone at an organization got your unlisted phone number to call you to wish you an happy Rosh Hashonah? Would you be concerned about how that data was found out? Is there no limit to what data you are prepared to have people gather about you? These are all important issues. After the TJ Maxx incident, both government and private people started to be concerned about how data is gathered and stored. Questions were raised about security and at what type of information was gathered. Understandably, TJ Maxx has been slapped down hard for what happened to them and for what information they kept. People rightly have asked why they had some information beyond credit information in the first place. Worse, officials and private individuals are taking the company to task for failure to protect personal data. As a lawyer, you are probably very aware of what you need to do to protect personal data. In one of my professions, I have to keep a seven year record of my clients. I have to keep the data in a secure place and I have to properly shred it when it is no longer needed. I cannot share this material with others without client consent. I cannot and should not record data that is not pertinent to my client's file. I don't think political parties or anyone for that matter should be collecting data on people that have not consented to have that information revealed. A holiday message sent out in a general mailing to people who have consented to be on the Voter's List or who have consented to have undressed mail are not the same as those targeted in a mailing campaign based on information gathered and kept on lists without consent. Quote
jbg Posted October 9, 2007 Report Posted October 9, 2007 But do you have concern about people gathering data on you based on information that you have not consented to give? Would you be upset if someone at an organization got your unlisted phone number to call you to wish you an happy Rosh Hashonah? Would you be concerned about how that data was found out? Is there no limit to what data you are prepared to have people gather about you?My phone number is listed. My last name is not a secret, and identifies my religion rather well.Nothing you've told me about what the CPC did troubles me in the least. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
fellowtraveller Posted October 9, 2007 Report Posted October 9, 2007 Man, is it ever hard to get lists of Canadian Jews! This one took almost 1 second Quote The government should do something.
Guest coot Posted October 9, 2007 Report Posted October 9, 2007 Wow. I've never seen such contempt for other people's wish for personal privacy. Quote
scribblet Posted October 9, 2007 Report Posted October 9, 2007 Is it okay if the Liberals and NDP keep such 'lists' as well ? Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
Shakeyhands Posted October 9, 2007 Report Posted October 9, 2007 (edited) Is it okay if the Liberals and NDP keep such 'lists' as well ? Its not ok for anyone to keep these sort of lists. http://www.privcom.gc.ca/legislation/02_07_01_01_e.asp#004 my gut says this is just further courting of the Jewish demographic for the purpose of a fall election. Edited October 9, 2007 by Shakeyhands Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
jdobbin Posted October 9, 2007 Author Report Posted October 9, 2007 My phone number is listed. My last name is not a secret, and identifies my religion rather well.Nothing you've told me about what the CPC did troubles me in the least. So consent is not an issue for you? You believe it is okay for a complete profile to be kept on you about you, your wife, your children without any limitation at all? It doesn't concern you in the least? Quote
jdobbin Posted October 9, 2007 Author Report Posted October 9, 2007 Is it okay if the Liberals and NDP keep such 'lists' as well ? I have no idea about the NDP. I have never seen a mail out from Liberals to people based on their religion that was compiled without consent, do you? And if they did, I would be against it. Quote
jdobbin Posted October 9, 2007 Author Report Posted October 9, 2007 Man, is it ever hard to get lists of Canadian Jews!This one took almost 1 second These are people who have identified themselves as Jewish publicly. People who wish to remain private should not have lists compiled about them for a profile without their consent. Quote
ScottSA Posted October 9, 2007 Report Posted October 9, 2007 These are people who have identified themselves as Jewish publicly.People who wish to remain private should not have lists compiled about them for a profile without their consent. What a tempest in a teapot. What a mountainous mole hill. What a...well, anyway, this kinda fell flat on its face, didn't it Dobbin? Quote
fellowtraveller Posted October 9, 2007 Report Posted October 9, 2007 These are people who have identified themselves as Jewish publicly.People who wish to remain private should not have lists compiled about them for a profile without their consent. How do you know that- how do you know that they've identified themselves publicly at all? By the way, every place you have a loyalty card - like Blockbuster or Safeway or Petro Canada or Air Canada -as well as every credit agency - has a profile on you. Quote The government should do something.
old_bold&cold Posted October 9, 2007 Report Posted October 9, 2007 (edited) I have no idea about the NDP. I have never seen a mail out from Liberals to people based on their religion that was compiled without consent, do you? And if they did, I would be against it. JD my mother received a letter way back from Chretien, for being a cancer survior, for 50 years since the batlle against it was fought. She did not make a fuss and actually had the warm fuzzies for a few moments of the day about getting this. Even though she hated the man as PM. So I would wonder just how many privacy issues that would have broken by your standards, but for her and most others, it is not even a minor issue. She may well get one from Harper when she reaches 90 or even 100. This kind of thing is done all the time by all the parties. do not even think that the Liberals never did such a thing, as it is not true. Edited October 9, 2007 by old_bold&cold Quote
Pliny Posted October 9, 2007 Report Posted October 9, 2007 (edited) I have no idea about the NDP. I have never seen a mail out from Liberals to people based on their religion that was compiled without consent, do you? And if they did, I would be against it. Are Union members automatically put on the NDP mailing list. I had two family members working for the summer in a Union shop and they started getting mail from Jack Layton. They must have unwittingly signed away their privacy. Edited October 9, 2007 by Pliny Quote I want to be in the class that ensures the classless society remains classless.
jdobbin Posted October 9, 2007 Author Report Posted October 9, 2007 How do you know that- how do you know that they've identified themselves publicly at all? By the way, every place you have a loyalty card - like Blockbuster or Safeway or Petro Canada or Air Canada -as well as every credit agency - has a profile on you. If you feel some of them have not stated their religion, I suppose you can go do an edit now. To be encyclopedic, an entry has to be verifiable from some other source. You can slap a "citation needed" if you feel it doesn't. You consent to a loyalty card and they have to follow rules as contained in the Privacy Act about what they gather, who they share it with and how they store the information. The list compiled by the Tories wasn't some loyalty program that people signed on for. Quote
jdobbin Posted October 9, 2007 Author Report Posted October 9, 2007 (edited) Are Union members automatically put on the NDP mailing list. I had two family members working for the summer in a Union shop and they started getting mail from Jack Layton. They must have unwittingly signed away their privacy. When I worked in the public sector, the small print on the union package I got said that the union would use my information to send me political and informational literature. I was able to contact the union and under the privacy act, I could opt out of that mailing. Edited October 9, 2007 by jdobbin Quote
jdobbin Posted October 9, 2007 Author Report Posted October 9, 2007 JD my mother received a letter way back from Chretien, for being a cancer survior, for 50 years since the batlle against it was fought. She did not make a fuss and actually had the warm fuzzies for a few moments of the day about getting this. Even though she hated the man as PM. So I would wonder just how many privacy issues that would have broken by your standards, but for her and most others, it is not even a minor issue. She may well get one from Harper when she reaches 90 or even 100. This kind of thing is done all the time by all the parties. do not even think that the Liberals never did such a thing, as it is not true. I know the Liberals have shared information with polling companies and the media. I believe they should have been charged under the privacy act. I have no idea about the circumstances of your relative and who gave the party that information. If it was without her consent, it was a violation no matter how warm and fuzzy it was. Quote
jdobbin Posted October 9, 2007 Author Report Posted October 9, 2007 What a tempest in a teapot. What a mountainous mole hill. What a...well, anyway, this kinda fell flat on its face, didn't it Dobbin? I believe we allow too much personal information to used by companies, governments and organizations. It is an invasion of our privacy and in many cases, it makes us vulnerable to identity theft and other types of fraud. I don't think any of this should be done without consent no matter which party, no matter who is doing it. Quote
Michael Bluth Posted October 9, 2007 Report Posted October 9, 2007 What a tempest in a teapot. What a mountainous mole hill. What a...well, anyway, this kinda fell flat on its face, didn't it Dobbin? Absolutely, that's why 1/3rd of the posts in this thread are his. Gotta keep the hate going somehow. Quote No one has ever defeated the Liberals with a divided conservative family. - Hon. Jim Prentice
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