Conservatives keeping list of Jews

[xul]

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national...c8e&k=58596

Unsolicited mail that seems to comes from lists people keep makes a lot of people nervous. The fact that the Tories are keeping lists of Jews is rather disturbing.

I think that Ms Kofman felt offensive with the mail because this mail hinted that she was born in a Jewish family so she was predestined to inclined to support Israeli or Jews and their religion.

Just as if one day I immigrated to Canada and became a Canada citizen, but Canada government sent me a card to celebrate China National Day, I might also feel it is an offensive. That don't mean I must not love China when I become a Canadian Citizen, but it means I have the right to not be supposed to destine to love China or support China just because I carry Chinese genes in my cells.

So I think that the best way a politician to express concern to his voters is to present himself in their gathering. In a gathering, he knows the topic of the gathering and so he knows what is the standing of everyone, so he can speak more lovable.

Edited October 21, 2007 by xul

[capricorn]

So I think that the best way a politician to express concern to his voters is to present himself in their gathering. In a gathering, he knows the topic of the gathering and so he knows what is the standing of everyone, so he can speak more lovable.

For Canadian politicians, being "lovable" is called being "inclusive".

[jdobbin]

So I think that the best way a politician to express concern to his voters is to present himself in their gathering. In a gathering, he knows the topic of the gathering and so he knows what is the standing of everyone, so he can speak more lovable.

It would appear that Conservatives have decided that Muslims are not one of the groups they want to reach out to with cards of salutations.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/071021/...rvatives_no_eid

Prime Minister Stephen Harper's religious holiday outreach to Jewish households apparently does not extend to Muslim individuals, say a half dozen national Islamic organizations.

Six different Muslim groups, including some of the largest in the country, all say they are not aware of any Muslim households receiving holiday greetings from Harper for Eid, which was celebrated last Saturday to mark the end of Ramadan.

"They dropped the ball on this one. Maybe next year," said Sameer Zuberi, director of communications and human rights at CAIR-CAN, the Council for American-Islamic Relations Canada.

The apparent oversight - on which the Prime Minister's Office declined to offer any comment - seems to belie Conservative assertions, voiced repeatedly in the House of Commons by MP Jason Kenney, that the government believes in "celebrating all of our cultural communities' holidays and important dates."

The issue is a sensitive one for the Conservative government.

A national newspaper reported last week that internal Tory documents show the party is heavily wooing certain ethnic communities but believes 21 per cent of visible minorities groups are not "accessible."

[ScottSA]

It has to do with information gathered about you without your consent. How was the information compiled? How is it stored? Can you get your name removed from a list? Can the list be corrected for mistakes? Can that list be accessed by others or shared? For example, can employers get access to your religious information? Presently, they can't ask for it in a job application but can they get it from groups such as the Tories who data mine?

My "religious information" has been pasted on these boards innumerable times. I'll tell anyone who asks. Obviously if some of Harper's nefarious henchmen are lurking hereabouts scooping that information, with the intent to follow it up with a happy "believe-in-God-but-not-really-Christian" Day card, I'm not going to start an endless thread about my fears that I'll be scooped in the night. Now, having wasted far far too much time in this silly thread, I'll depart. Farewell...wave to the trucks when they pull up in the night.

[jdobbin]

My "religious information" has been pasted on these boards innumerable times. I'll tell anyone who asks. Obviously if some of Harper's nefarious henchmen are lurking hereabouts scooping that information, with the intent to follow it up with a happy "believe-in-God-but-not-really-Christian" Day card, I'm not going to start an endless thread about my fears that I'll be scooped in the night. Now, having wasted far far too much time in this silly thread, I'll depart. Farewell...wave to the trucks when they pull up in the night.

If your private information is of little concern to you, perhaps you'll post your actual name, address and phone number here. After all, what's there to worry about?

[scribblet]

Oh gee, now this group is complaining because they didn't get one, and oh my, guess what - the Liberals send out cards too

Six different Muslim groups, including some of the largest in the country, all say they are not aware of any Muslim households receiving holiday greetings from Prime Minister Harper for Eid, which was celebrated last Saturday to mark the end of Ramadan, which they contend means that Prime Minister Harper's religious holiday outreach to Jewish households apparently does not extend to Muslim individuals. Sameer Zuberi, director of communications and human rights at CAIR-CAN (the Council for American-Islamic Relations Canada), said, "They dropped the ball on this one. Maybe next year." The apparent oversight -- on which the Prime Minister's Office declined to offer any comment -- seems to belie Conservative assertions, voiced repeatedly in the Commons by MP Jason Kenney, that the government believes in "celebrating all of our cultural communities' holidays and important dates." Several Muslim organizations said they received Eid greetings from Mr. Harper, but none knew of any individual households that got similar greetings. Others said they knew of Eid greetings sent to Muslim households by Liberal MPs Ottawa Sun page 11 et al

[jdobbin]

Several Muslim organizations said they received Eid greetings from Mr. Harper, but none knew of any individual households that got similar greetings. Others said they knew of Eid greetings sent to Muslim households by Liberal MPs Ottawa Sun page 11 et al

Muslim households that received mail from Liberal MPs were on a list they consented to because they were either Liberals supporters, Liberal members or had joined Liberal mail lists. They also identified themselves as Muslims according to Garth Turner.

The same cannot be said for lists the Tories have put together that are not done with consent.

[Rue]

Man oh Manashevitz. This really sparked a debate with you gentiles.

Listen every one be calm. Politicians do what they do. They try get votes. So if they pander is anyone surprised? Oh come on. They all do it. Pandering to potential voters is part of the game. Always has been. always will be.

You want pandering, come to Mississauga where we have this idiot former member of Parliament who never missed an opportunity to pander to here Palestinian-Canadian constituents with specific buzz words and now continues the same as an alderman trying to get into position to replace the Mayor when she dies.

Ethnic pandering. What never heard of it before?

They all do it. All of them. Equally.

Now this Jew says calm down. If you don't like the card throw it in the garbage. Of course politicians want your vote. Puhleeze.

Me I see nothing wrong about it. Yes it is potentially a privacy issue, but I think Leafless is right. I think all that happened is someone went down a list of electoral voter names and thought if it sounded Jewish, send them a card. What is the big friggin deal?

Its no different then kissing babies or when you see all of these idiots go for photo ops and put on yamachas or turbans or other religious attire.

Its a multi-cutlural state and they try acknowledge people's religions. It may be ethnic pandering but its also being polite and thoughtful. Its both. Take your pick.

I agree with you gentiles. What next we get offended when a politician sends a Christmas card?

Oy gevalt enough. Its just ethnic pandering. You no like, throw in garbage lady.

I actually think you gentiles did a great job debating this and presenting both sides of the arguement.

[ScottSA]

...you gentiles...

...this Jew...

...you gentiles...

...you gentiles...

I always wondered why some people in the west look at Jews as outsiders. I've always defended Israel as being an outpost of western civilization in a sea of barbarism. Apparently that's not on, eh Rue?

[jdobbin]

Man oh Manashevitz. This really sparked a debate with you gentiles.

Listen every one be calm. Politicians do what they do. They try get votes. So if they pander is anyone surprised? Oh come on. They all do it. Pandering to potential voters is part of the game. Always has been. always will be.

You want pandering, come to Mississauga where we have this idiot former member of Parliament who never missed an opportunity to pander to here Palestinian-Canadian constituents with specific buzz words and now continues the same as an alderman trying to get into position to replace the Mayor when she dies.

I have said several times that I have no problems with parties that want to promote themselves with ethnic communities. I do have problems with profiling without consent. I have problems with lists that are gathered for constituent response that are migrated to electioneering lists. I have problems with lists that you can't ask to be removed from or ask to find out how they were compiled.

This is an issue of privacy and not one of ethnic pandering in my view.

[xul]

I always wondered why some people in the west look at Jews as outsiders. I've always defended Israel as being an outpost of western civilization in a sea of barbarism. Apparently that's not on, eh Rue?

Sounds like that you consider Israel as a pawn in this multi-world chess, always being deployed in front of King, queen, knights and castles to keep out and bear "barbarism" cannon balls for those civilized "upper" chessmen? How cruel you did to the Jews who live in Israel and bear bombing everyday?

[xul]

For Canadian politicians, being "lovable" is called being "inclusive".

All politicians around the world have to be inclusive all of the people under their ruling unless they want their country consumed by conflicts between different groups(races, religions, poor and rich, or women and men ) of people. I think this is mainly their jobs.

[ScottSA]

Sounds like that you consider Israel as a pawn in this multi-world chess, always being deployed in front of King, queen, knights and castles to keep out and bear "barbarism" cannon balls for those civilized "upper" chessmen? How cruel you did to the Jews who live in Israel and bear bombing everyday?

I have absolutely no idea what you just said.

[xul]

Politicians do what they do. They try get votes. So if they pander is anyone surprised? Oh come on. They all do it. Pandering to potential voters is part of the game. Always has been. always will be.

I think you are right. I live in China for 40 years and have never received any card from politicians and government except several fine bills for parking car in non-parking area. So Canadian would be cheerful for they can get a card from politicians though sometimes it is a wrong card.

[jbg]

I have absolutely no idea what you just said.

At least he said something after 20 pages, where I thought everything there was to say on this subject has been said.

[jdobbin]

At least he said something after 20 pages, where I thought everything there was to say on this subject has been said.

If privacy is no concern to you, perhaps we could publish your name, address, where you work and what your religion is here. Afterall, what could happen?

[jbg]

If privacy is no concern to you, perhaps we could publish your name, address, where you work and what your religion is here. Afterall, what could happen?

If someone's name is publicly available and identifiably Jewish, that is different from posting, to the general public, information about me. Remember, Harper sent a Holiday card; he didn't publicly divulge information about them.

[jdobbin]

If someone's name is publicly available and identifiably Jewish, that is different from posting, to the general public, information about me. Remember, Harper sent a Holiday card; he didn't publicly divulge information about them.

We have no idea how the Tories collected information. We have no idea who they divulge their information to either. If all the forum members just sent you a card to your home address, would that be harmless or would you be concerned how they collected that data and who they might share it with? Would you want your name to be so freely available? Do you want people to make a profile of you without your consent? Would you like the option of getting off a mailing list or a phone list?

[Rue]

I probably have a CSIS file that is at least 150 pages longer then most peoples,

We have no file on you.

[Rue]

I think that Ms Kofman felt offensive with the mail because...

this post has been deleted at request of C. Anthony

Edited October 23, 2007 by Rue

[Michael Bluth]

....or she is simply bored with not enough going on in her life. Sounds like she needs to get layed. Sorry to put it in such crude terms, but in this case I really believe that.

We have no idea how certain anti-Harper activists collect their information. We have no idea who they gave it to. Perhaps they are working with the KGB to bring down the lawfully elected government. We just don't know!!!

[Rue]

So it was, and compliments of yourself. Thanks for pointing out my slippage. It is a flogging I deserve for keeping this ship afloat. (heard that MB?)

So let's get on with the complaints. I much prefer the arbitration of complaints from parties personally offended rather than the rantings of Marlene Jennings.

Hey quote me too! I like to think of myself as the Dudley Laws of the Jewish community only I have no beard or beret and my comment is;

"For fuck's sake, throw the card out if you don't like it."

[Rue]

I think the political agenda of Kofman is to resuscitate the Scary Harper mongering. She sound like a non-Conservative diehard whose loyalty clearly belongs to another party. And I wouldn't be surprised to know that she is on the payroll of that party.

If you received a well-wish card and you want to find out where they got your name, would you go straight to the media?

Wooooh..... scary. Harper knows everything.

You think Kofman is doing it for Haloween?

Andy Kofman back from the dead.

[Rue]

What exactly isn't true about the thread title? Are the Conservatives not keeping lists? Are the people on those lists not Jewish? My very first post stated that unsolicited mail based on your religion is disturbing.

If the Liberals were reported for mailings like this, I'd be equally upset. In fact, I've said they should have faced charges for releasing information to the media and polling companies last leadership campaign.

If you have a problem with the title, you should report it. But what exactly are you reporting? That it isn't true? That you think it means something else? Even in the first post, it is indicated that the list isn't a hate list. It was list to garner favour in the Jewish community.

However, it is a list compiled on people who never consented to have their information used for unsolicited mail. Worse, they have no idea how the list was compiled.

As a Jew I do not have a problem with this at all.

As a poster I think your points and your posts are great and bring up some very good points about privacy.

But sorry, on this one I think the person who turned this into a tempest had an agenda. I may have stated it crudely but I question her agenda. I think she has one.

In this country I have the absolute right to throw such cards in the garbage. I appreciate your point if information is kept on me illegally. But I really do think in this case there are no sinister lists being kept on Jews.

I think all politicians pander. Its what they do. There is nothing sinister about it.

I do appreciate the privacy issues you raise. To me those are a different issue and I take them seriously but for heaven's sake, if someone wants to acknowledge my religion in a positive way I will not get my kosher colon in a twist over it.

[jdobbin]

....or she is simply bored with not enough going on in her life. but in this case I really believe that.

I don't know why this woman has become the sole focus when the article itself has three people in it. Subsequently, there have been others as well who wonder how lists are compiled.

Your remark crosses a line and is inappropriate for this forum.

Edited October 23, 2007 by jdobbin