Conservatives keeping list of Jews

[jdobbin]

No. But I'm not going to kick up a fuss about it.

What would you kick up a fuss about? Companies and organizations have been getting into quite a lot of trouble for collecting and keeping a lot of data that they really have no business having.

[jefferiah]

Mr. Jefferiah feels that the Liberals are trying to exploit a measly greeting card for political gain.

[sharkman]

Well I've got a newsflash for you dobbin, the government has thousands of lists of people organized by many different criteria. During the last tax season, you yourself gave the government a great deal of your very private information on income, investments, charitible donations and how much you gave to the Liberal party last year. It is not an invasion of anything. Also,you are making an assumption typical of yourself, which is that this 'list' is based on religion when the story you have linked clearly says it is based on family name, or culture.

Either way, you don't have anything here. I noticed your story, more of a hatchet job, never bothered to get a response from anyone who liked getting a card from the government. Since there is no attempt at balance, this tells me it's probably an attempt to get the Liberals off the front pages for a while. It might work for a day or two, but the smell coming from that party can not be covered up by simply getting people to look in a different direction for a while.

[jdobbin]

There is no privacy violation if the source is a publicly available directory.

I think you are incorrect about that.

[sharkman]

Once again, they did not collect religious data on her. Because had they done so, they would have known that as she herself says, she is not religious!!!!!

At the end of the day, this comment trumps all.

[jdobbin]

Well I've got a newsflash for you dobbin, the government has thousands of lists of people organized by many different criteria. During the last tax season, you yourself gave the government a great deal of your very private information on income, investments, charitible donations and how much you gave to the Liberal party last year. It is not an invasion of anything. Also,you are making an assumption typical of yourself, which is that this 'list' is based on religion when the story you have linked clearly says it is based on family name, or culture.

Either way, you don't have anything here. I noticed your story, more of a hatchet job, never bothered to get a response from anyone who liked getting a card from the government. Since there is no attempt at balance, this tells me it's probably an attempt to get the Liberals off the front pages for a while. It might work for a day or two, but the smell coming from that party can not be covered up by simply getting people to look in a different direction for a while.

And the privacy act prevents the government, companies and organizations from using data for purposes for which it has no business knowing. Even lists based on name or culture can be violations of the privacy act.

Something as simple as the change of address card that Canada Post gives out have had to be changed to conform to the privacy act.

[ScottSA]

So you don't think organizations that collect your data on religion to use for whatever purpose is a violation of the privacy act?

What do you think a violation of the privacy act entails?

If I'm not mistaken, the privacy act does not preclude information found in the public domain. To date I have never yet been arrested for using the phone book. But really Dobbin, this is a pretty transparent "soldiers in the streets" thread, don't you think? I mean really; "Conservatives keeping lists of jews?" Could you possibly make it sound more sinister? To my knowledge, Hitler didn't keep track of the Jews in order to send greeting cards, and I don't think Harper is planning to make people wear yellow stars, do you?

[jdobbin]

I thought Jews wanted their religion to be normalized like the Christian religion according to the articles I have read around the time of Christian Christmas.

I think they simply picked Jewish sounding names off of the voters list and mailed out some cards.

It could be they confused the name 'Kofman' with the more Jewish name 'Kaufman'.

It doesn't matter how they gathered their information. The issue is they tried to sort information based on religion or culture and used it for their own purposes. They had no business gathering that type of information of people who didn't consent to let that information getting out.

[jdobbin]

If I'm not mistaken, the privacy act does not preclude information found in the public domain. To date I have never yet been arrested for using the phone book. But really Dobbin, this is a pretty transparent "soldiers in the streets" thread, don't you think? I mean really; "Conservatives keeping lists of jews?" Could you possibly make it sound more sinister? To my knowledge, Hitler didn't keep track of the Jews in order to send greeting cards, and I don't think Harper is planning to make people wear yellow stars, do you?

The phone companies require you to consent to having your number publicly listed under the privacy act. They charge to keep your name unlisted.

It doesn't matter the good intentions of the Conservatives, it matters that they keep a list of names of people who have not consented. It matter what type of security is provided over that information. It matters where they get the information from. It matters what they intend to do with that information and who they share it with.

[old_bold&cold]

Any person walking up to me in the street and saying "Merry Christmas", is invading my privacy and also is impling I am christian. Do you think I should file a complaint? How dumb does something have to be before you know it is just politics played by the worst type of people, and the worst type of party. Please keep making this more then it is, because right now. I can see past liberal voters, sighing in wonderment as to why they ever entertained the idea that the liberal have changed from the past. This does sound like something I would expect from the liberals and Dion.

It just goes to show you that Liberal support comes from the worst side of the community, where wishing some one a happy holiday is an act of invasion of privacy. Only a liberal party would stoop this low, or because they have always been at the bottom, I should say climbed this high, from the gutter.

Edited October 8, 2007 by old_bold&cold

[jdobbin]

Mr. Jefferiah feels that the Liberals are trying to exploit a measly greeting card for political gain.

I'd be unhappy if the Liberals or any other party collected and used this type of data.

After what happened with TJ Maxx, the issue of security of data and what data is collected has drawn a lot of attention. They clearly had data they had no business having. Worse, their security left people vulnerable so that not only their credit information was released but data on social security numbers, phone numbers and a variety of personal data was collected as well.

Edited October 8, 2007 by jdobbin

[jdobbin]

Any person wlking up to me in the street and saying "Merry Christmas", is invading my privacy and also is impling I am christian. Do you thin I should file a complaint? How dumb does something have to be before you know it is just politics played by the worst type of people, and the worst type of party. Please keep making this more then it is, because right now I can see past liberal voters, sighing in wonderment as to why they ever enetertained the idea that the liberal have changed from the past. This does sound like something I would expect from the liberals and Dion.

It just goes to show you that Liberal support comes from the worst side of the community, where wishing some one a happy holiday is an act of invasion of privacy. Only a liberal party would stoop this low, or because they have always been at the bottom, I should say climbed this high, from the gutter.

The person walking down the street has no personal information on you. A greeting on the street where the person doesn't know you from Adam isn't a violation of your privacy in a legal way.

Have you absolutely no concerns over what data is collected on you and whether the government or companies should be using it for purposes other than it was intended?

[geoffrey]

She hasn't done a FOIP request for her information yet so I'm sure she's even much less concerned than you are. This is an attractive thing because you can reference the CPC to Nazi's. Unfortunately it's really a bunch of hot air. She said she may have been in a Jewish directory once, that's all they need.

If she feels so threatened by our little police state or whatever you have it, she can request that all information on her be sent to her. She obviously doesn't feel threatened at all.

[sharkman]

Any person walking up to me in the street and saying "Merry Christmas", is invading my privacy and also is impling I am christian. Do you think I should file a complaint? How dumb does something have to be before you know it is just politics played by the worst type of people, and the worst type of party. Please keep making this more then it is, because right now. I can see past liberal voters, sighing in wonderment as to why they ever entertained the idea that the liberal have changed from the past. This does sound like something I would expect from the liberals and Dion.

It just goes to show you that Liberal support comes from the worst side of the community, where wishing some one a happy holiday is an act of invasion of privacy. Only a liberal party would stoop this low, or because they have always been at the bottom, I should say climbed this high, from the gutter.

Excellent points, I think the Liberals are getting really desperate and this shows it.

And Dobbin, I have never given the phone company consent to use my name number in the phone book. I also have never given my consent for businesses to use my phone number for telemarketer puposes, which let me tell you is FAR more annoying than a holiday greeting card. You are plain wrong, which is clear to everybody in the room except you.

[jdobbin]

Excellent points, I think the Liberals are getting really desperate and this shows it.

And Dobbin, I have never given the phone company consent to use my name number in the phone book. I also have never given my consent for businesses to use my phone number for telemarketer puposes, which let me tell you is FAR more annoying than a holiday greeting card. You are plain wrong, which is clear to everybody in the room except you.

You do consent to the phone companies for them to use your data for their purposes. It is the fine print when you register to get a phone.

Here is an example of the consent you agree to when you sign on.

http://www.mts.ca/portal/site/mts/menuitem...0000408120aRCRD

[old_bold&cold]

The person walking down the street has no personal information on you. A greeting on the street where the person doesn't know you from Adam isn't a violation of your privacy in a legal way.

Have you absolutely no concerns over what data is collected on you and whether the government or companies should be using it for purposes other than it was intended?

I probably have a CSIS file that is at least 150 pages longer then most peoples, and yes they probably know way more about me then the laws allow, but there is nothing I can do that will change that. And especially if they were only wishing me a happy holiday, I would not in any way get uptight about that. people who do get this uptight over this need mental health checks, and since you say you are so troubled about this, may I suggest you get one yourself.

You and I both know that you are only blowing this into something, because you want to further the liberal cause, but you have gone way too far and are now only hurting that cause with each and every post in support of this garbage that you make. No one is going to agree that a simple wish of happy holiday has anything more henious to it, then what it actually is. Why would you even try to post this here. It was stupid whenit was in the paper and even more so now here in the forums. Talk about dumbing things down. Well this has definitely bottomed. Shame on the Liberal party for this waton misuse of the media and an insult to the thinking voters. You should go wash after you post this dirt.

[jdobbin]

She hasn't done a FOIP request for her information yet so I'm sure she's even much less concerned than you are. This is an attractive thing because you can reference the CPC to Nazi's. Unfortunately it's really a bunch of hot air. She said she may have been in a Jewish directory once, that's all they need.

If she feels so threatened by our little police state or whatever you have it, she can request that all information on her be sent to her. She obviously doesn't feel threatened at all.

You're correct in saying that a complaint has to come from an individual pertaining to this mailing.

I haven't made any reference at all linking the Conservatives to anything other than keeping lists on people based on religion or culture and using it is probably a violation of the privacy act.

[jdobbin]

I probably have a CSIS file that is at least 150 pages longer then most peoples, and yes they probably know way more about me then the laws allow, but there is nothing I can do that will change that. And especially if they were only wishing me a happy holiday, I would not in any way get uptight about that. people who do get this uptight over this need mental health checks, and since you say you are so troubled about this, may I suggest you get one yourself.

I see no reason to personally attack.

CSIS is a government agency that is mandated with collecting data. Having said that, they are subject to the privacy act as well. They are forbidden from releasing data that is unrelated to their security mandate.

[ScottSA]

The phone companies require you to consent to having your number publicly listed under the privacy act. They charge to keep your name unlisted.

My point is, as you must surely know, that this information came from the public domain and as such cannot possibly be a violation of the privacy act. You know it as well and are simply trying to whip up another lynch mob.

[maldon_road]

What would you kick up a fuss about? Companies and organizations have been getting into quite a lot of trouble for collecting and keeping a lot of data that they really have no business having.

I think my MP sends a Christmas card to everybody. Even if he doesn't my name and address is on the voters list which is accessible to all parties. He has a right to write to me. In fact he does every month - a pamphlet full of Liberal BS. A Christmas card hardly seems odd to me.

[jdobbin]

My point is, as you must surely know, that this information came from the public domain and as such cannot possibly be a violation of the privacy act. You know it as well and are simply trying to whip up another lynch mob.

A phone number comes from information you consent to have out there.

Both the Conservatives and the Liberals have gotten together along with other parties to support the "Do not call" list to close the loophole on privacy that this blanket consent leaves open.

Keeping a list of people based on religion and culture collected from data you have not received consent to collect is a violation of people's privacy and of the privacy act.

No political party should be collecting such data without consent.

[jdobbin]

I think my MP sends a Christmas card to everybody. Even if he doesn't my name and address is on the voters list which is accessible to all parties. He has a right to write to me. In fact he does every month - a pamphlet full of Liberal BS. A Christmas card hardly seems odd to me.

The MP has your mail based on the Voter's List. Under the Privacy Act, you can ensure your name is not on that list and still be able to vote. Your name appears on the list because you have consented.

A Christmas card that comes to you doesn't come to you as a result of the MP knowing or having some sort of list indicating you might be a person who celebrates Christmas. The card comes to you as a constituent that has consented to receive mail. You can opt out of that personalized mailing by not being on the Voter's List, not being a party member or by contacting the mailer to have your name removed from the list.

Edited October 8, 2007 by jdobbin

[ScottSA]

A phone number comes from information you consent to have out there.

Both the Conservatives and the Liberals have gotten together along with other parties to support the "Do not call" list to close the loophole on privacy that this blanket consent leaves open.

Keeping a list of people based on religion and culture collected from data you have not received consent to collect is a violation of people's privacy and of the privacy act.

No political party should be collecting such data without consent.

That's nonsensical. If it's in the public domain its freely available. If someone doesn't want to get a Happy Sheep Shearing card or whatever, and it's important enough to make a fuss over, then they can probably call and ask to have themselves removed. Your claims about what political parties "should" do and not do may be wonderful opinions, but they are not reflective of the law, which is what you're trying to link them to. It is not unlawful to collect information in the public domain. You don't need permission to open the phone book, or to sort through publications in the public domain to compile information. Companies do it as a matter of course.

[jdobbin]

That's nonsensical. If it's in the public domain its freely available. If someone doesn't want to get a Happy Sheep Shearing card or whatever, and it's important enough to make a fuss over, then they can probably call and ask to have themselves removed. Your claims about what political parties "should" do and not do may be wonderful opinions, but they are not reflective of the law, which is what you're trying to link them to. It is not unlawful to collect information in the public domain. You don't need permission to open the phone book, or to sort through publications in the public domain to compile information. Companies do it as a matter of course.

Your personal data is not in the public domain except where consent is given.

Your information is in the phone book because you have consented to have it there and allow it to be used by others.

Government, companies and organizations are subject to the Privacy Act when collecting data. Several companies have gotten into trouble for acquiring information without first seeing whether they had consent to do so.

[Wilber]

Some people get quite offended by Christmas mail that comes unsolicited and personally addressed.

That's what shredders are for.

Your title for this thread is beneath you, or at least I thought it was.