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............... Many of the people we have as clients are incapable of working at even the most menial jobs. You forgot to include those with mental and physical afflictions. Also those who are single parents who can't afford daycare for their children as there are too few places for them. The safety net, often doesn't cover basic monthly expenses. Some of our clients spend over 90% of their income on housing which leaves VERY little for necessities. Example, one woman pays $450.00 in rent which leaves her less than $100.00 for her other expenses. Last time I checked there is no way that you can survive on that little and have any quality of life. There are very few geared to income dwellings so those who are childless are stuck finding accomodation on the free market. With winter coming I am doing my usual scrambling to get donations of used warm clothing for our clients. ............. ................. I could go on but I'm sure you will come back with some rhetoric that will blame the victim as opposed to the perpitrator. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> An excellent post from someone who works on the front lines.... and knows what reality is for a large segment of our population......

Out of curiosity, what does this have to do with the topic of the thread... If you want to start a new thread it's really simple....

And every time I read someone blame Mike Harris for long waits in public healthcare I thank them for demonstrating the blissful ignorance of youth. Assuming you are in fact young, and not the victim of some sort of brain damage affecting long term memory. If which is the case, my condolences. I think you've got a real bad case of the blissful ignorance that you speak of. While I can't be sure of the "blissful" part, I can be sure of a severe dose of the "ignorance" part. The laying off of thousands of nurses, closing down how many hospitals, didn't that affect health care or waiting lists.... and then when Harris wanted to get re-elected, he actually boasted about spending more money than any previous government on health care... because he gave party-friendly construction firms huge contracts to tear down hospitals and build new wings onto them.... Our health-care dollars were going to patronage construction contracts.... and we ended up with less doctors, nurses, and real health care...

It's rather amazing that this "indepth analysis" could somehow not even mention the decline in the Canadian dollar at or about the time of the NAFTA agreement. The fall in the dollar made "buying Canadian" and having components manufactured in Canada extremely attractive to American industry. Now that our dollar has risen significantly with respect to the US dollar, Canadian made goods will be less attractive to the USA. I think we can expect a shift in the balance of trade due to the recent rise in our dollar. Had our dollar maintained its pre-NAFTA value, I think we would have already seen the effects of NAFTA that we can expect to start seening any day now...

When are parents and the kids going to take responsibility for their own actions and quit blaming it on everyone else. Mike Harris had nothing to do with it, poor upbringing, lack of values, ethics and integrity have more to do with it. No amount of social programs and basketball courts will prevent actions like this if there is no solid grounding and teaching in the home. I'll agree somewhat about the parents, but after I address the main theme.Mike Harris had everything to do with it. Supposing, in your neighborhood, the police no longer policed, and made it publicly known.... "We aren't going into that neighborhood anymore". If the crime rate escalated in your neighborhood as a consequence of the police action (or lack thereof), nobody would be surprised. However, following your logic, we should blame the parents of the criminals responsible for the escalated crime rate..... not the police (or lack thereof). In reality, the public would blame the person(s) responsible for the withdrawl of police services from the neighborhood. Similarly, Mike Harris's cuts that removed guidance counsellors, and reduced staff to the point that there's no-one left to monitor the halls, etc... created an environment for the witnessed criminal behaviour to flourish.... As for parents, they should be more responsible for their kids' actions. And further, teachers should be empowered to deal with problem children in their classes.... and there needs to be enough staff in the schools to deal with what really happens in schools....

Toro.... How can that much of a return help anyone... that's exactly McQuaig's point. However, 30 Billion dollars is a considerable amount of money, which could make a huge difference in delivey of the emergency room services if it were applied to health care. At $6 Billion/year, everybody could get a new toaster oven and some towels. However, if you were naive as you suggest, you might consider that this much money could pay for 50 thousand new emergency room doctors (paying each of them $120K/yr)... And that would make a huge difference to how long you waited in the emergency room. Or how about, more practically, 10 thousand new doctors, 20 thousand new nurses, and a whole bunch of modern diagnostic equipment. But I guess you know that spending the money on all these doctors and nurses is really a clueless thing to do with money when everybody could get a new deluxe toaster oven instead... I imagine that either the CPC or Liberal party would be looking out for sharp thinkers like yourself.....

Maybe it had something to do with the fact that the classes that used to hold the "Basic and General level" students were removed when Mike Harris cut their funding, an so the advanced students are in the same classrooms as the "challenged" kids..... Directly linked to Mike Harris's cuts..... See above for why the blame lies with Mike Harris... Directly at that... So should we get the funding back for these "special classes" or was Mike Harris right ???

I think it is more likely that he is a right-wing (aka Conservative) looking to get elected.... under the guise of a "Liberal"... You'll note the the "left wing commies" arent the warmongers... It's the right wing .... (I was going to answer your "left-wing commies" comment with "right-wing facists", but managed to subdue the urge)

When you call him "intellectual", is that "George Bush" style intellectual ???

I think you'll find that what Canadians dislike about these men is something they all have in common.... The represent the ultra-right CPC party (or constiuent components) that advocate right-wing tight-money policy that does not benenfit most citizens....

I find these pre-election goody handouts quite tiresome, however, my question is where are the Conservatives? Why aren't they out there grabbing media attention with policy annoucements? Why are they letting the Liberals get all of the attention? I don't think we'll hear the CPC party's real objectives until after they get into office....

And if the Americans had this attitude when young Amar Bose came to the USA... He still owns 51% of the Billion dollar business he built... that ships around the world... and let's not forget the thousands of well-paid people in his employ... How about the recently deceased German immigrant, Klaus Woerner who built up an automation business with his own hands.... and it's a multi-billion dollar Cambridge Ontario based company, Automation Tooling Systems.... His business employs a whole lot of 'skilled' Canadians who otherwise might not have been employed... and exports to every country in the world... Should we keep these kinds of immigrants out in case their wives don't get good jobs.....

That's right. Mulroney's GST got money out of everybody's pockets, and it was and remains to be a great revenue generator. However, even though it comes out of everybody's pockets, business gets all of theirs back... So Mulroney found an excellent way to tax the public, and not business. .... really... Buying votes with our money instead of delivering services for us with our money... it is appalling... I think the calculations are based on five year totals. This is usual for federal government spending estimates. Enough for some fluffy bath towels and a hairdo, and a bottle of scotch...

They came from the necessity to find cash to pay for his big tax grab... that decreased taxes only for the wealthier citizens of the province. I remember well when Harris was running for office, his wagging his finger at the camera saying "not one penny from education"... So that he wouldn't be called a liar, the Conservatives came up with the "province wide testing" designed to show that Ontario schools were substandard. I don't know if you are old enough to remember these tests, and some of the examples of questions from the test that made it onto the news because they were so ridiculous. They didn't make the "mentally challenged" who are babysat by our school system write the test, but their average (0%) had to be included in the provincial average. Then they did all kinds of bogus comparisons, like comparing Ontario science students with students from a "British school", not mentioning that the particular British school was exclusively for near-genius students... The whole thing stunk.... And all this so that he could break his promise... because he had to reform the school system... And he did only one reform in the first year.... he removed a half of a billion dollars from the school system budget... Now that's really working to fix our school system... I think it is you, Argus, that is in the state of confusion.... Vote for Argus's CPC party to "disembowel the teaching staff", "engage in mass firings of qualified teachers", "slash their salaries and benefits"... You forgot to mention security and guidance counsellors... but then again, I forgot... They all went with Mike Harris's school reforms...

I'm sure most reasonable people like yourself, would only question these ridiculous grants,not all grants. This thread brings to mind Brian Mulroney's use of "the Wealty Banker's Wife".... Showing how rich people got family allowance cheques too, and that was just outrageous.... Rich people getting free taxpayers money... and using this justification, cut EVERYBODY's family allowance.... most notably, the people who needed it.... If you're on a trail to say all these programs should be cut because there are a some questionable ones, then you are going down a bad and dangerous path... Not all benefits can be measured in dollars....

Harper has stated numerous positions on numerous occasions on moral issues. Just look back a year or so on his party's stand on abortion... They were going to bring in a bill ..... and the public reacted negatively... so they adapted... The "party" wouldn't bring in the bill, but they wouln't stop a private member's bill... nudge, nudge, wink, wink... and the public still didn't like it... so it became... The party wasn't going to pursue any such bill.... tell me August, what's the latest story... What do they feel is necessary to say so that they can get elected and implement their agenda... whatever their agenda really is...

You're suggesting that our usage of oil be regulated by pricing. There are probably more important things than price that should determine our useage/conservation of this limited commodity. Nimbo-Neutrino technology could be a replacement technology in the future, but it doesn't exist now, and so it is not an alternative we can depend on. It is nice that you're optimistic, but it has to be balanced with a decent sized chunk of reality.... Allowing the status quo as far as our energy supply provides no incentive for innovation. Current energy policies are driven solely by greed.Waiting for some time in the future to change our policies is probably not the best course of action. When you're free-falling from the aircraft isnt time to start thinking about parachutes. You have to use just a teeny bit of foresight... or the consequences could be devastating....

A bit of a credibility problem here... Actually... not worth even answering this one.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What .... paying 2 million dollars for a CAT scan machine scares you? Car mechanics are spending more than that to have state of the art diagnostic equipment in their corner garages, and it generaly pays for itself in less than two years. WE HAFF TO TALK, ERR!! I think you'll find that a CAT scan machine is a LOT more than 2 million dollars. And if they were 40 million dollars and necessary, then I still suggest that our government set their priorities in the proper places and buy the machines, not the votes. I don't need the fluffy towels or toaster oven that badly, but should I require chemotherapy in 15 years, I would be glad to have the facilities, and look back at my big sacrifice of a few hundred dollars per year and say it was worth it. Selling our country out for a few hundred dollars per taxpayer is inexcusable...

neo = new. This is a "new" Conservative party... it is not the old Progressive Conservative party, as it was taken over... Evidence to this... Joe Clark says people should not vote for the new conservative party. Flora McDonald, one of Mulroneys top ministers is a card-carrying NDP, because she believes in the party, and the neo, or "new" Conservative party is not even similar to the old Progressive Conservative party. It has been a Progressive Conservative argument, used in Ontario and federally for years.... Maybe you're too young to remember ... Or haven't paid attention...

Oh right. Sure it does. Its only given us unprecedented living standards, an ease of life unheard of at any other time in history, breakthroughs in medicines and other health technology, etc., etc., etc. Life would be so much easier on the fantasy utopian commune, where everybody was happy and we could eat unicorn every day. If you let things grow, grow, grow, without protection for the environment, you will certainly have problems. Think about a fish tank... If you just let everything grow, grow, grow, the algae will choke the life out of the tank.... Like unchecked growth will choke the life out of our planet....

To ModerateAmerican, If I misread you, I apologize... Looking at your post again, it was not really against Canada's position. My response was not an attack at you, but it is how I feel. 'Pologies again, and have a nice day... Err.

I really thought the next paragraph had some merit as well, so I'll post it here: That being the case, (the lack of political experience), it puts the neo - Conservatives on a more even footing with the NDP, who the Conservatives argue, have no experience. They are both in the same boat. But at least the NDP tell us what they would do if elected, so that makes them more trustworthy to the electorate.... Interesting article Shoop.

I take it from your comments that you're trying to pretend you read "shooting the Hippo", which, while it talked about deficits, was more about the right wing's (and Bank of Canada's) obsession with zero-inflation, and what they were willing to do to the majority of the population for the sake of the few. For example, the high interest rates in the early eighty's that forced so many people to lose their homes. This extremist level of inflation fighting was not necessary, and probably did more damage to the country, its economy, and its citizens than can be justified. Maybe you should try reading some of her books, or even her column in the Toronto Star (it's free Shoop)... You might learn something...

I would hardly say "desperate" to blame things on Mike Harris... It's rather plainly obvious the destruction his actions has brought to much of the social fabric of Ontario, not alone its school system. I would say that it is you who is desperate to deflect the blame from it's root cause, and put all the blame on the "blacks from the third world cesspool" as you wrote below...While there might not be "a shred of evidence" that this situation would have been prevented had Mike Harris not gutted the infrastructure at the schools, I wonder if you think crime wouldn't go up if the city of Toronto laid off half of their policemen ??? Or would there not be a "shred of evidence" to correlate the two. ... guidance counsellors were some of the first things chopped due to Harris's wonderful school "reforms". Under-staffed schools don't usually have an abundance of personnel to monitor the halls, etc...

Not to be pedantic, but a councillor is somebody who sits on a council, such as city council. A counsellor is somebody who gives counsel-- advice. I suspect you mean the latter, not the former. What would we do without your keen eye and razor sharp mind... People might have missed my point due to my mis-spelling of the word. Can't get anything past your sharp eyes... I likened cops and councillors in the above quote as people that you would go to when in distress. I wasn't suggesting that they put cops in the school, but really, if the school is that bad, maybe it would be a good idea to put the school on a cop's beat... I wasn't pointing out that counsellors are not cops just for the sake of being pedantic. I don't believe anybody respects counsellors as authority figures. Well, somehow this one slid past you. The counsellors in schools usually aren't supposed to be authority figures or Robocop superheroes, and I never intended to portray them as such. They're there to assist students by talking to them, helping them deal with their problems, recommend mature course of action, etc... Their job would also have them take appropriate course of action on discovering a situation as tragic as that described in this thread... They should not be the cops, but they should know to call them when appropriate...