Army Guy

WOW, now that is the answer isn't , don't like what you here, it's time to pack them up and ship them off.....

I'm very disappointed at our PM performance at the NATO conference, He announces that Canada has NO plans to double our defense budget as we agreed to, infact we signed onto the agreement, an agreement we no longer have ANY inclinations of living up to....what does that say about Canadians…. Justin is having a spat with the leader of the free world,and instead of acting like the PM he is more like a teenager......I can not wait until 2019 election...... infact Justin is quit proud not only is Canada not living up to the agreed 2 % but we actually decreased our defense spending this year.....deferring once again another 8 bil in purchases until 2030 or beyond...He talks a good game, but he has no intentions to spend anything on DND.....all these new missions he is signing up for will come our of existing DND budgets.....no new funding...ya baby that's supporting those troops …..when are we going to wake up..... Justin had no intentions in keeping this agreement, SO why did he sign on to it....has he kept any of his promises..... https://globalnews.ca/news/3329833/federal-budget-2017-lack-of-defence-spending-draws-fire/

This bulletin has measured per-person federal debt that Canadian prime ministers have accumulated from 1870 to the end of Justin Trudeau’s first term in 2019. By the end of his term, Justin Trudeau is expected to be the largest debt accumulator among prime ministers who did not experience a world war or at least one economic downturn during their tenure. The only other two prime ministers to increase federal debt without fighting a world war or experiencing an economic downturn are Sir Mackenzie Bowell and Sir John Abbott who both served in the late 19th century. https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/analysis-of-federal-debt-in-canada-by-prime-ministers-since-confederation.pdf And while I agree with you Harper did rack up an impressive debt, but as I remember it it was mostly spent on economic growth, and at both the liberals and NDP request.....now if we are going to point fingers maybe we should have a look at those liberals, guys like Justins father , Mulroney adjust them to todays dollars and we will see who is really responsible for debt.... https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/analysis-of-federal-debt-in-canada-by-prime-ministers-since-confederation.pdf you don't like the source I can get another if you like.....

you think all those soldiers had a choice ,soldiers stand where they are told to , that's what we do for the man that pays the bills...I've seen fishermen do the same thing when the minister is in town looking for his photo op.....smile for the camera....oh ya did we tell you we care cutting the amount of licenses and lowering the quota this year. put tour arm around the minister will ya, don't forget to smile …..

Are you saying the Cons are responsible for all the debt occurred since 1963.....is that a white lie, or just plain BS I can't tell.

What are our real security risks? and are they are already addressed by our military ?

You mean like going from a traditional peace keeping force to one that was a offensive combat one like we had in Afghanistan....or perhaps you can talk about Mulroney's massive White paper that included NUC subs for patrolling the artic, massive reforms to ground and air powers...Or perhaps you are talking about even larger changes i'm not sure, in any case these were PM's that had big dreams for DND only to find out the cost....No election or being honor bound to the tax payers....they decided , like most topics that never make it to the tax payers until they have been adopted....returning our Nuc wpns to the US did not require any vote, neither did conscription all ideas that were drafted and implemented in Parliament.

Link one author is all over the place, he states now with the soviet union long gone, and yet ex warsaw nations are begging to join NATO for fear of Russian aggression, so much so that NATO has moved in thousands of troops to reassure them it is not going to happen, Some European nations have gone back to conscription because they to fear Russian aggression....Russia is rebuilding and has been for several years now, revamping Naval units, Air units, and ground units, expanding it's military that has a lot of NATO countries concerned....code for scared...not to mention Chinas massive military build up....SO what is it are these threats long gone....because it has NATO, and US military staff worried.... The old myth Canada is never going to get invaded, and yet our nations leaders had huge concerns over the very same thing once the NAZI's took control of most of Europe...what has change since then, well tech has grown in massive leaps and bounds.....making globalization that much easier...Just how large of an invasion force do you think would be required to get a foot hold in Canada....considering our military forces today.....and the state they are in. You see it as Trumps blustering , I see it as a guy that is pissed off his country has paid the bill for peace in our time , and "allied" have been cashing in on this peace bond, the more they cash in the more the US pays.....until NATO is nothing more than a shell....and if it gets to weak, it will no linger be a deterrent, and if that happens how many lives, US service members will have to pay that price...not to mention how many Canadians will be shipped overseas to fight a conflict that we are not prepared for....Why can't Canadians see that.... Europe has been talking and creating a Euro force for years now, and it has been slow going, hard to get them to put funding towards NATO let alone a fully equipped and manned Euro army. Euro nations are going to find our that putting together a Euro army is far more expensive than what they have been paying out now...This also the same concept Canada will face if they decide to leave and go it alone, that it is going to be far more expensive, than what they are paying now... I can remember when the US was talking about withdrawing from NATO due to all the bitching the euros were doing , in the face of US troop reductions, and down sizing....They seemed to be in panic mode, they new they would have to pay for all that protection the US was providing. Where will that leave Canada, it will leave them with the bill that's were...poor US relations, our economy will suffer, Canadians will soon learn They (US) does not need Canada, we need the US....

Today, the story of Sweden is rapidly changing , from a neutral country to one that is pressing to become a NATO member, a country that is already allowing NATO forces to exercise with in Sweden's own borders, and it has also taken part in NATO lead missions such as Afghanistan, Bosnia, etc...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_neutrality Canada has played an important role in most British lead expeditions, Boar war, WWI, WWII, along with the occupation forces of Europe assisting in the rebuilding of Germany, but also as a low tier contributor to NATO including NAVAL, AIR, and Ground forces up until the 1990's....lets not forget about our contributions to a full Brigade group to NORWAY, still ongoing although on a smaller scale. I'd say it is a little unfair to say Canada our role was confined to WWII. Canada does have forces in Latvia, still part of Europe I think....although it is a small role we are still there, Canada could have a much larger role if it had the forces to man it. Lets remember we disbanded an entire brigade group once we left Germany in the 90's . Canada has made up it's own mind on all it's mission it has undertaken, IE we did not take part in the Iraq invasion, although we do have combat forces there now. for the most part our interests foreign and domestic are linked...yes Canadians have made it part of our Canadian identity to be anything but American, but we are more alike than what separates us....and that pisses Canadians off. The last thing we need is big brother telling us what to do....right, or maybe we have reached that point were we need someone telling us ….get you shit together.... Canada has more than one enemy or threat to our nation , I spent 34 years in the military listening to thousands of intel briefs, not one of them listed the USA as a enemy...most if not all listed the US as being an allied, it also listed close allies as being the UK, Australia, New Zealand, all one has to do is look at the defensive treaties we have signed on to and these names will come up over and over....as will our nations threats.... What does a Civil defense force look like, how is it equipped, and what job does it have, how is it funded....Lots of questions...neutrality and a defense force to ensure it stays neutral is not cheap ask the SWISS.

Your quit right and I apologize for my rude remarks...that being said one should also fact check his debating points and provide a source , to avoid confusion , so the reader can confirm facts, provide context to the posters thoughts and ideas, it also further educates the poster and the reader on the subject....

Perhaps you can provide a source ?

It is an expensive token, but one that has to be paid, in order to defend this nation and it's citizens. The CF has not been able to defend this country for dozens of years, and yet it's members work 24 hours a day , 7 days a week to ensure we do have some sort of defense....Afghanistan gave us what little equipment we have today, not much else was purchased for the military for use outside of Afghanistan, exception was those SAR aircraft that Justin purchased. PTSD comes in many forms and has many names, but to suggest that WWI, WWII, Korea produce less numbers of phycological injuries as Afghanistan is Crazy talk...our numbers don't even compare all one has to do is goggle that shit..... JTF-2 is Canada's only anti terrorist unit, it took over from the RCMP in the 90's , as for CYBER, their are military, and CISS, and RCMP units each doing it's thing tracking different aspects of cyber space. One does not have to have an election to change defense policy, or white papers. all that needs to happen is the will to change it, Defense policy is changing all the time....Are you sure you have researched any of this....

Things must be quite around the old tree today, you even got a sense of humor I see, the bad man with the chain saw must be on holidays is he....

I think it is time for the Anybody but Justin campaign …..smash the red vote across the nation....

Considering Germany , Holland, other euro nations were selling LEO IIA4 for pennys on the dollar, practically giving them away, I mean Canada did purchase 85 of those tanks for a song....and that leaves us wondering why we can not sell our tanks which are some 5 models behind those.....even the Taliban had better tanks....

I do understand the difficulty of getting anything done within our government, I also understand that politicians only interest is getting reelected for that second term . That being said good leadership is making those good and bad decisions or popular/ unpopular choices...what is best for the nation, not ones political career....it has been a long time since we have had a PM that put the nation first, or for that matter a good leader... On top of all that there is no will to make this happen, not at the governmental level or at the citizen level at least not with out a major push...which is yet to come....small hints have been constant for decades not only from NATO, the US plus a lot of our allied….Trump has just started with his campaign to bring defense spending up to where he thinks it should be, allowing the US to down grade some of its defense spending like picking up the slack for dead beats like Canada and to use that funding in other areas be it at home or on its own capabilities that they are lacking.... Canadians have been brain washed into thinking we are upholding our end of the defense agreements, liberals go to great lengths to convince everyone we are fighting above our weight....When all the credit goes to our troops , they are the ones that perform miracles with the little resources they get, turning shit into ice cream.....with our politicians , and our citizens taking the credit ….See you don't need more funding.....all those accomplishments come at a cost...... soldiers lives, in Afghanistan when enough soldiers had died we would get new equipment, not before, and then it was only enough to get the job done in Afghanistan, Imagine just for a second, that your boss refused to buy safety equipment until enough employees had died to substantiate the expenditure, and that news hit the media....the country would throw a fit....not in our case... And yet we just paid 4.5 bil for a pipe line, tax payers money, and we did not even blink....we were told it would take another 7 to 11 bil dollars to get built, again no one blinked....liberals have accumulated how much debt in the last 3 years, the PM shits money or at least he gives us that impression, the budget will balance itself....right....so lets tack a few extra bil onto it and renew our military....I'm not talking about expansion but rather keeping status que for now and replace or update all of our capabilities.....ride the liberal wave of endless money to shore....

Another Canadian myth started by the liberals , no doubt in a effort to curb our military spending and you bought it all hook line a sinker....you talk simple logistics, and yet our nation is under attack or under threat everyday by dozens of nations, these attacks do not have to come in the form of assault boats and bombers, but rather cyber, finical, economical , political, and terrorism, even threats of a military nature towards of foreign interests. not to mention threats that are against NATO countries, threats to NORAD, ABCAZ, and other defensive agreements we have signed....Canada has responsibilities to more than just itself...and yet you have mention nothing about them, nor have you asked why are we part of them , do we need them, nothing....your main concern is what conscription....not since WWII have we had conscription....and look what it almost did to the country.... Not only am I willing to spend my tax dollars on it, but also put my life on the line towards defending it....me and millions of other Canadians that have also served think it would be a good idea....since when do we have a choice on what our tax dollars are spent on, I mean I can think of dozens of liberal good will programs that I would rather not spend my share of my tax dollars....And yet you would be content to live under that protection of that military force, criticize it when you wanted, whine and complain about as we do today....because that what a lot of Canadians do, whine and complain about something they have no control over...like taxes, or what the US is doing around the world....I know you don't see that practice being hypocritical , but I do... It's time to deal with it....The US has did everything but scream in your ear, they are tired of lifting all the weight....but as Canadians we will leave it until the last minute and then run around and do nothing.....blaming the US for their actions....Your not grateful….your pissed that they are asking.....for Canada to get it's shit together , how dare them assholes....make me spend money on defense....what it going to be like when they tell us.... Grateful people do not bite the hands that have been doing all the work....

I agree that we should have more presence in the artic, there was a plan by the cons to achieve some of that, by constructing some ARCTIC FOBS, that would have ground troops to patrol, some drones as well as an expanded Inuit Arctic Rangers force..as well as some enlarged southern Bases in Yukon, Nunavut, NWT, etc that would have a larger presence such as fighters, transport aircraft to handle resupply. but that never really materialized , today the defense of the North is a reserve force responsibility, along with some Airforce assets. DND prime concern is NATO/ NORAD commitments still hung up in Europe, NATO is starting to concentrate on the Pacific following the US in lead hence the ABCAZ, America, British, Canadian Australian, new Zealand defensive pack....The pacific is going to require a whole new force make up, ie no more Large Armored formations...Something that is going to take years to get everyone on the same page...

Do you think you are reaching here ? I mean can we count Air Canada expenses towards our NORAD commitment , they after all fly or patrol the skys daily....besides they liberal government has already brainstormed every possible way to extend our % of GDP including creative accounting, trying to get out of our 2 % target.....Immigration was not counted as an example.

What is your idea of a strong military ? in regards to troops numbers, budget . My idea of a "strong" military would be one that is around 125-150 000 troops, with a budget in the mid 40- 50 bil.... The purpose of defense policy is to defend the nation from any hostile action of a foreign government or group...to include invasion, cyber attack, terrorist attack, economical attack, foreign or domestic. To ensure we can enforce our sovereignty, to implement and enforce all of our national laws, and inter national laws, but also to enforce all foreign policies, which include all the defensive pacts and arrangements we have signed onto such as NORAD, NATO, ABCAZ, US /Can emergency response to crises act. not to mention the hundreds of UN charters we signed on to. Todays military can support a few of our commitments but not all at once.

I think there are to many factors to be considered to pin PTSD or other illnesses on one factor, every soldier experiences everything different. And those experience effect his personality, his mental and medical state. The same effects can be seen on Fire fighters, policemen, EMS, etc etc....So ya toughening them up would help...worked for Sparta, in Greece. I often wonder how a settler in the 1800's would handle the stresses of today, would they consider them trivial, I mean considering the lack of law enforcement, health care, medical advances, death was a pretty common thing...are we softer, I think we are, we are now concerned with gender neutrality in our national anthem, taking down statues of past leaders, lets not forget trying to discover which of the dozens of genders everyone is today....back in the day it would be trying to figure out if those approaching people on horse back are friendly, will I have enough crops to feed my family, and if not who gets feed, who does not...

Jacee, that is bullshit and you know it, They're are to many reasons those vets are taking their lives, lack of support from the government , citizens, lack of resources made available to them to treat PTSD, their are shit tonnes of reasons, with no direct proof that it was because it was all for nothing.....if anything it was for the troop on their left and right of you....not because your country wanted oil, or to line their pockets....

Not sure what rank or regiment have to do with the topic, , unless we are pulling our penises to measure who's is biggest....but MWO, and RCR... the question I asked was how do you see our military today, it's strength , numbers, equipment even training. The impression I get is your not familiar with what is happening on the inside, infact a lot of Canadians are not, because if they did I think they would demand change now.... The reason I ask is there is a huge difference between what is actually taking place on the ground, and what is being reported by our government and senior staff of DND. One can not just read a few quotes on the intra net and claim that is what is happening in the forces, or sort of fill in the blanks and assume things are good.....because they are not..I'll give you a few examples, the LAV 6.0, which was a program designed to replace the old and tired LAV III , New vehs were suppose to be ordered, to replace all the LAV III, both battle damaged or destroyed vehs from Afghanistan and what was still being used in Canada. Funding was cut...what happened was the LAV III was in Half, the bottom half was discarded, a new and improved bottom half welded back on, the top half was the same old tired LAV III tech we had in Afghanistan, then it was rushed into service without any trails and evals being done, these were being done while units were receiving the vehs...major problems with tires, brakes, the list goes on and on....It should be noted that the Saudi's ordered over 12 Bil dollars worth of the LAV 6.0, the two vehs are not even close to being the same....we got the cheap of the cheapest version, and this is one of the most modern piece of equipment we have. Our Leo IIA4 we just bought are decades behind the tech curve, Germany now is working on the Leo IIA8, we have NO self propelled Arty, our air defense equipment is in storage, most of our SMP vehs sit in field rusting away, because they are no longer safe to drive, that includes the LSVW, MLVW, HLVW, Yes there are massive purchase projects in the works, PS these trucks were taken off the road in 2013....well over 70% of the fleet , to compensate the regular force raided Reserve force equipment such as the MSVS, with no lift units can not deploy any where, unless it is done with school bus, or civilian tractor trailers.... You want to compare our frigates with what is out there today, the first one launched in 1988, yes they have been refitted, lots of nice little goodies put into them, refitted started in 2007 finished in 2016, yes they are relevant in todays climate, but they are not state of the art, Naval tech moves to fast for that....see Zumwalt class for an example. Our drone force is long gone...used up in Afghanistan, and once they returned , they were no longer supported.... https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/02/28/liberals-drone-shopping-exercise-sets-stage-for-debate-over-lethal-force_n_9341934.html What procurements are happening, the purchase of 18 used F-18 from Australia, what other projects are even close to making it to fruition…..most if not all have been postpone until after the 2019 election... Training has been slashed unless your going on a tour, those that are not on tour get to do very little unit training....lets not talk about battle group or brigade level training a vital aspect of training any army.... I don't want you to take my word for it, I want you to do some research dig into it yourself....and you'll be surprised at what you find...things are not what they say they are on the ground....they never are. How much of the military budget is being returned every year do to restrictive purchase policies making it impossible for not only DND to purchase equipment, but also PWSG who now handles all DND major purchases....Shit we can't even buy sleeping bags for our troops, or things like trucks...Something has to raise a red flag I mean come on it is smacking us in the face and we refuse to look at it....

How do you see the military ? How does your peer group see the military ? I spent a long time serving , talked to shit tonnes of Canadians about many military topics, and for the most part they all sprout the same tune....Yes we support out military, a lot even went out and purchased those bumper stickers " I support our troops" , mostly because they did not want to be called out when it was not popular to NOT support our military....The question is Do they really support our military ? and if so how far do they support them, to the point they want it properly equipped, funded for training , materials and supplies, , would they use they're personal time to say write a letter to there're MP's , start a petition do something of value that would bring light the true condition of our military... I have been to Ottawa, seen all the sites , in and out of uniform, on official duties and non official such as war museum, all the different memorials dedicated to those troops that have died, sacrificed for this nation...All the more reason to state what I have stated... our nation should not just remember those troops on Nov 11, nor should they erect some monument and call it even our military is made up of Canadian citizens that decided to sacrifice everything for very little in return....our part is to ensure they have the training, and equipment to do that job....and we have failed big time...next time we say we support the troops we should ask ourselves , how much.... Not sure where you get your info on our tech or how we are equipped, which is laughable really, we fly aircraft that are coming up on 40 years old, our ships are no better, they army which is considered the best equipped in our military is decades behind most NATO nations, and you could put in a lot of 3 world nations as well. I mean if you want a list I could give you one...a goggle search would provide better results....shit DND web site list everything we have , including the year we purchased it....DND , and our government has pulled the wool over a lot of Canadians eyes....Our military is in trouble, not only equipment wise, but training , and manpower wise, not to mention infra structure wise. Because of all these shortages, we are bleeding off capabilities and knowledge like never before. Canada can not occupy, police. or rebuild anything with it's military, not with out major US support, but lets not talk about those guys....we don't like them....we need them , but we don't like them.....or should I say most Canadians.... the problem with is not the competition for funding , but the lack of will to spend it or use it on projects and programs that will not produce votes.... Canada was never intended to be more than a supporting country, but we are failing in that big time....to the point we need more support than we can contribute....And the US is getting tired of it...they are telling us get your shit together, it's time you pay your own way.....can you blame them....and to top it all off what do we do, poke them in the eye, call them names, war mongers, among other things.....shit I know i'm tired of it....Im not the only service person out there that thinks the same way....

No one on the planet can or does have the military resources that the US of A has, but every nation does have military resources that can be used in any way that the governing power decides....see OKA crises here in Canada, or Haiti, Kosovo , Libya air Campaign, international missions that Canada's military forces where ordered to seek out and destroy our enemies , enemies decided by our politicians .....whether we were the lead nation or not those resources were authorized by the PM. Regardless of what defensive pact we are signed on to, only the PM has the authority send troops and equipment on this missions, he can say no at any time. And your right , most Canadians are happy we don't spend a lot on our military......... for some reason Canadians do not understand the first thing about their military or it's roles it plays everyday on their behalf, Shit most Canadians do give a shit about anything outside of their household or community......This grossly uneducated view has scared them into thinking our military is full of BAD PEOPLE that want to hurt everyone....the same military that could barely handle the Winnipeg floods, or Ice storms, because it is so under manned and poorly equipped..... We should starve it of funds, place them in glass cases with signs that say break only in emergency.....we take great pride making jokes or poking fun at them, we take great pride in watching them struggle to do the tasks we as a Nation "demand" they do, we love to see them fail, we use them as some sort of medical or social experiment to solve other issues like sexual assault in the work place , or women's rights to name a few... we hold them to high standards and wait for them to fall, so we can say "SEE" this is why we don't like you.........This is what most Canadians are willing to give up for their sons and daughters when they join our military......lives are cheap, there is always some kid willing to die for a few dollars , just like there is always some politician ready to take advantage of our cheapness and their career aspirations that can't wait to send our sons and daughters to some world shit hole to make a few political points.... And then when all is said and done, and someone points to all our faults and irony of it all, we as in the people of Canada go on the attack....failing to see the larger problem....being the people..Our politicians are always going to place our military into harms way...…...We are not going to change that "ever"..... Our sons and daughters are always going to sign up on the dotted line to serve this great nation, we are never going to change that either.....So why can we not sit down and tie them together, force our government to properly train, equip, and fund our military, and hold our government responsible every time we deploy them. It is all a pipe dream...… because that Sir takes to much effort, we would rather slag Americans for pointing out our faults, and continue burying our sons and daughters because we are cheap sons of bitches….