fellowtraveller

I assume you are talking about proprep in the House of Commons, which I am not convinced is a great idea. Perhaps in an elected Senate. And you are a sly dog with your musings on who it would benefit. It would benefit the NDP of course, which is why they are such big proponents at the national level, but not necessarily elsewhere. They are big proponents except in Sakatchewan and Manitoba, which not coincidentally have NDP govts which would suffer greatly by the introduction of proprep. Pretty convenient. so much for idealism. They like change where it benefits them, then wonder why people are cynical.....

Well looky here! Already, Harper has a convert! His first day at work was not wasted.

Looks like Klein is going to become the whipping boy for the Friends of Medicare. It's mainly because they don't have the courage to take on Quebec, which is undoubtedly the frontrunner in privatized medicine. CCGirl, I know you love to hate Klein, but are you aware that the delivery of medicine in Canada has been almost entirely done by the private sector since 1867? It is not about Klein. Doctors are not government employees, never have been. Chanting 'Save Medicare' quite simply will not, in itself, save Medicare. Insiisting that we somehow magically stick to a wholly publicly funded, publicly provided system (which never existed) is equally ludicrous. Insisting that the current system is the only option is simply a guarantee that it will slowly painfully collapse. The problem is much more basic than money - there will never be enough. Dempgraphics and technolgy are compelling reasons for that reality. It is about getting the most bang for the buck. If that involves more private sector involvement, fine. If it involves less private sector involvement, fine. I wonder if Canada and Canadians will ever really know though, since we are apparently unable to have any kind of coherent, unemotional discussion about the options. Soembody mentioned the NHS in the UK as a possible example. To that, I can only say that you have never experienced the NHS in person. I have, and can state that I'd much rather see an American system than the hodgepodge mess in the UK. I do like the French system, often recognized as the best in the world. We'll likely never get a chance to check it out in any meaningful way in Canada though. The French system has a large element of private sector involvement, as well as user pay/extra billing components. Until we get past the hysteria and wishing-upon-a-star-wistfully-for -something-that-has-never-existed............ maybe not in my lifetime.

The age is too low as is. Shouldn't be a difference, it just shouldn't be 14. I still say it shouldn't be based on the age, rather we need to make sure 50 year olds aren't screwing their 14 year old neighbour. I think justice is best served when it is based on both age and difference in age. What to propose though? Maybe a min age at 15, but not allowing anyone 25 or over to have sex with anyone more than 10 years their junior where the junior is between 15 and 20 years of age. I know it may seem complicated but maybe someone can think of a better way. I could most definitely accept a proposal like that. That is sort of how the current law works right now, with an age of consent of 14 years. If you are a 15, 16, 17 year old and are boinking a 14 year old , and you are a peer of the other person - it is very unlikely that you will be charged with anything. If you are a 21 year old Scout leader - you likely will be charged - but not with statutory rape. The courts in these cases, often use a different charge to reflect the abuse of trust involved. There is no reason that the age of consent cannot be raised to 16 and still maintain the discretion for young lovers that has always existed in Canada. Police and prosecutors and ultimately judges also have plenty of latitude in deciding what is appropriate. But it all starts with legislation - theoretically at least. The main purpose of increasing the age of consent is to provide some discouragement to predators, and how can that be a bad thing?

Interesting that the poll on this thread has slowly shifted over the last few days to fairly accurately reflect the views of Canadians overall: as of now, 52% for same sex marriage, 42% against.

Do you agree or disagree with these ideas? Disagree with both. Thanks for your honesty. A significant number of Candians, inclduing relatively conservative persons like me, see the former as simple common sense acknowledgement of the reality of prostitution, and the latter an acknowledgement that our government is and is seen to be a secular governemnt.

Sure. At $15K per year, that's around $180K cash money. If she worked to 65, that would be a 18K per year payback. And that is the 'noble' purpose of MP pensions, to compensate you for the years you take out of your career, and out of pensionable service elswhere, including self-directed pensions. The idea is not at all unreasonable, but the level of payout may be.

I wonder if normanchateau is ever going to explain why former PM Martin voted twice against same sex marriage?

Arctic sovereignty is about #93 on the priority list of the 'Urban East' in Canada, just ahead of choosing the location of the Lacrosse League All Star game. 7 out of 10 Torontonians could not identify any landmass on a map that was outside their long distance area code. For 9 out of 10, the only map they have ever seen is a TTA routemap. Really, lets get serious here, this is far removed from any urban dweller suckup campaign. But Harper has pointedly confounded his critics who see him as a Bushbot, a Bush clone and obedient to Yankee imperialism. And it only took a few minutes on his first day at work. That should be what worries them.

Sure, but missing 12 years out your pension plan at that age will most certainly affect the pension due to her from the U of A. The time cannot be recovered. It is more than replaced by her Parliamentary pension, as qualified in my previous post. All I'm saying is that some compensation, pension or payout, is appropriate. You'd get some compensation scheme almost anywhere you worked at that level of responsibility, why should an MP get less?

Almost certainly Stephane Dion as interim leader. Do not underestimate McKenna, his experience or ability. He will be a formidable opponent.

Do you agree or disagree with these ideas?

I'm of two minds on MP pensions. The amount of the pension often seems excessive compared to the number of years of service. On the other hand .... using Anne McLellan as an example... She has served 12 years in the House, from age 43 to 55. She left a successful career as a professor to do so - which chopped 12 prime years out of her pensionable service there. Whatever partial pension she might get from her previous career, it is certainly going to be adversely affected - as will her career path overall as a law professor. So maybe they do have an entitlement- though perhaps not so much. Perhaps a compromise would be a straight up, onetime separation payment so they can do their own pension scheme.

This thread is hilarious, several posters arguing about a potential insult... Just think what would happen if there were an actual insult! Oh wait, the answer to that is ...nothing would happen. Doncha just love cyberspace?

Betsy, I understand your concern, but these comments are completely over the top! Polygamists may not fit your definition of what is acceptable in Canadian society, but we are about to discover that they fit the Supreme Courts vision - and our Charter will support that vision. So, may I suggest you campaign for a change in the Charter? Note that it will necessarily require that the recently won rights for gay/lesbian citizens be repealed too. Which is just not going to happen. The case for polygamy is essentially the same case must made for same sex marriage - minority rights. And, if the defintion of marriage MUST be expanded to include various cominations of genders, why shouldn't it alos be amended to include more than two persons? Please note that any argument related to the Bible or tradition is an automatic non-starter. Bestiality and pedophilia will not be allowed, since they don't involve consenting adults. It's that simple. Your comments also imply that their is a direct link between homosexuality and pedophilia, which is simply not true. Certainly some homosexuals are also pedophiles, but some heterosexuals are also pedophiles. Do you also believe that all men are rapists because some men are rapists? Do you believe that all women are promiscuous because some women are promiscuous?

Are you implying or insinuating that gay men are inherently pedophiles? Note that pedophiles prey on both sexes. Note that the vast majority of heterosexuals and homsexuals are not interested in children as sexual partners.

What a discussion - which country has the most overt racism? Clearly it is Canada, since our racism is institutionalized with Indian Affairs, the adminstration of the Indian Act, Health Canada, reserves, boarding schools, the Anglican and Catholic churches and so on. Many of these are happening today, not generations ago. The paternalism is disgusting and beyond insulting to human beings. The very worst place for Firtst Nations discrimination is Saskatoon. Nothing subtle or covert there. Worst of all, the system that has so clearly and totally failed an entire culture continues - nothing has really changed for 150 years. First Nations people face a health crisis, now, that is staggering. Wait, lets blame the dirty Indians for that. It is Canadas Dirty Little Secret, and a dark shadow on all of us.

You noted what the NAMBLA believes, then linked it to polygamy in your next sentence.. That is what I was disputing, as the two are not analogous.

The Can West Edmonton Journal is definitely left leaning. I only read the Grope and Flail occasionally, since the paper - despite its 'Canadas newspaper' claim, is so Toronto-centric. Which means : frequently boring, just like Toronto itself..

Norman, why did former Prime Minister Martin and the entire Liberal Cabinet vote against

But that is a completely ridiculous analogy. Pedophilia is about men preying on children, always. The vast majority of polygamy involves consenting adults. If children of any sex are involved in polygamous relationships, it must be criminalized not because there are more than two persons involved, but because children are involved. To discriminate against a relationship solely because it involves 2+ people is no different than other forms of bigotry.

Another difference between Segal (and any Senator) and McKenna: Segal is a purely political appontment to a legislative body. McKenna is an employee, a civil servant. Harris? Lougheed? How about Ralph Klein, he'll be looking for a job soon?

You know a discussion is going nowhere when people start arguing about what happened in 1760. Shades of the Balkans........ French Croats vs. English Serbs nursing ancient grievances...... sad sad sad.

Good for you, I'm glad to see you engaged and passionate. Can you tell me how much it costs to join the Liberal Party? I definitely want to vote in their leadership race, though I will struggle mightily to choose between Belinda and Sheila. Maybe if it is only $10 or so I could just join twice. not going to dignifiy this with a comment, you are just being sarcastic, so keep supporting your conservatives. My comment about voting twice was sarcastic, the rest is dead earnest. If Stronach and/or Copps runs for Liberal leader, I will join the Party and I will vote for them. It's a legitimate form of political activism, ensuring a Tory win via a Liberal loss. Somebody claimed that Stronach was 'smart'. Maybe she is, but I saw her three or four times on TV this campaign, in all-party forums debating the issues of that day. When the discussion deviates at all from the script, she either clams up or sounds retarded by sticking to a script that is not applicable. Whatever her intelligence level, she does not do well under pressure. She'd be eaten alive in a national election campaign.

Norman, why did former Prime Minister Martin and the entire Liberal Cabinet vote against