fellowtraveller

No , i mean an actual free vote where backbenchers and Cabinet are free to vote however they choose. All the previous Liberal votes on same sex marriage were partially or entirely whipped. I understand the Liberal cabinet was whipped for the death penalty vote too, in what - 1965? Got any actual examples of totally unwhipped free votes jdobbin? Post WW2 would be good. Give me that simple 'look at the record'.

Q: Why does Stephane Dion wear wooden shoes? A: Because it keeps the woodpeckers away from his head.

The thing Dion most needs to emulate from Kerry is the Giant Hair.

That's probably why CBC Radio 3 is popular with the download crowd. They put it on their Ipods. Canadians are still a little slow when it comes to Sat radio, MPs and the like. People are listening to CBC programs when they want, where they want and how they want now. Maybe in Winnipeg, but in Edmonton last year they were about 14th overall on radio, and dead last in TV networks. Maybe it is because Manitoba is a socialist heartland, and people there like their pablum pre-chewed? Hard to say. Whats easy to say is that , defined by numbers of listeners across Canada, is that if CBC was a commercial network it would have closed about 30 years ago because it has few listeners/viewers and no purpose overall.

Is OlyWest the hog processing deal in Brandon stolen from Edmonton a decade ago?

Harper : 1 Fundies: 0 The best part was how Harper forced/shamed Dion into allowing all his MPs a free vote. Has this ever happened before to the Liberals? An actual free vote?

Sorry, but you just lost all credibility, right there. If you can't find a quarter , you're clearly not in Alberta. I suggest you put down the bong, go the nearest corner, and check the street signs. You may well realize you're in Chicoutimi or Timmins.......

Regarding the OP, I can say with some smugness that this has unfolded exactly as I predicted. Nicely finessed by Harper both through the whackjobs on the fringe of the Tories, and through the House. Say goodbye to this issue, you'll never see it again. A bonus though is that Harper basically forced Dion into an unwhipped vote by the Liberals, a first for them on this topic. The LIberals voted against Same Sex marriage twice in the Commons en masse, then the Cabinet were whipped in the last 'free' vote. Just one week in, and already Dion is Harpers bitch. Lovely.

An emphasis on the environment file will help his election chances. When Harper and other Albertans point out that CO2 emissions climbed 30+% while Dion was Environment Minister, he can always retort that Alberta oilsands/oil patch activity accounted for roughly 75% of that increase. If we could only get them to use scrubbers. After Dion makes that nonsensical retort, is he also going to: a) deny that Alberta was part of Canada during his tenure as Environment Minister, just as it is now, and deny that along with that 75% came greatly increased prosperity for his own government? Truly, one can only hope and pray that Dion engages in this type of argument. Harper will eat him alive.

So what? Few if any of the people he needs to convert to his cause were watching CBC, because so few people actually watch CBC. It reminds me of Rex Murphys CBC Radio County Checkup. 98% of callers suppport whatever left wing softball much Murtphy presents because the audience comes with the network. Same same here. 2.a. Millions of Candians are not the Leader of the Opposition and potentially the Prime Minister. Madame Jean, as defacto Head of State, acknowledged this reality. The longer he waits to renounce the dual citizenship, the worse it will get for him. b. Then he needs to demonstrate his undivided loyalty immediately, with action. Talk is cheap. As is so often the problem with people that have spent their entire lives as academics and politicians, M. Dion is unable to recognize the situation for what it is. His worldview is not shared with those he wishes to rule. The longer he waits, the more it will cost him politically. c. John Who? I would venture that 80% plus of Canadians could not recognize John Turner as a former PM, much less care what happpened with his citizenship.

Really? What do you think they would do, other than flail their arms about and shriek platitudes? Shut down the energy industry? Not likely.....

I just have to disagree with that. Dion and Kenneday (part of the loyalist team) made a pre-aranged deal with each other that they would support one another to secure their votes. Insiders were the only ones allowed to vote, not 300,000 party members which would have changed the outcome. When 6 of 8 contenders are going to Rae for support, that should sent everyone a message of what was going on. Dion won due to typicall, Liberal inside deals and corruption. It could have been Kennedy just the same. (lets not forget how several months back Dion and Kennedy were spotted in a Toronto resturaunt having dinner together). They have learned nothing, and now they will pay the price for the willful ignorance. In typical Liberal style, a minorty spoke for a majority and special interest got it's way. That's fine for now, but not when there is a cou within the Liberal party possibly led by Stronach. Mark my words. Last night proved that nothing has changed within the Liberal party. There is no way anybody but Dion could have won. Kennedy has not been around long enough to have enough internal debt in the party to make him a serious contender. Ignatieff, Kennedy, Rae are all semi-wildcards, hard to control and that just will not do........ The Liberal Exec would have no interest in any electoral process that does not include them being the kingmaker.

Sure there are some rich farmers. I grew up semi-rural as I'd like to describe it, I had farmers as neighbours in both Ontario and Alberta. I'm not really a 'city-slicker'. I don't see what the deal is about millionaire farmers and how that changes the fact that Stelmach sounds simple-mind in his talking, lacks political acumen and is way way way out of his league. I just absolutely love this stuff. That is how Kleins opposition - and it was huge from the first day he promised major change in Alberta , then did what he said he would do- kept losing and losing and losing to him for over a decade. By deciding the aw-shucks demeanor was all there was to the man, they gave him a lead they could never overcome. Two days into the Stelmach reign - same thing. First rule in war and politics: underestimate your opponent at your peril.

Newsflash: let that rant die, Morton lost. Lost badly. The center held, and held easily.

No, Rae lost because he represented a bit of a wild card and the Liberal National Executive wanted a safe candidate, part of the Old Guard. Which is what they got and in doing so they have made a grave strategic error. Rubbish. How can you say that when exactly the opposite was demonstrated just yesterday in Alberta? Morton attempted to hijack the process by selling memberships to every churchgoer in Alberta. It worked for one ballot but didn't result in anything other than his third place finish, which was as good as he was ever going to get. Why doesn't it work? Two Reasons. First, there are a finite member of one-issue people. They don't attract others to their cause because they are clearly obsessed. Second, once the existence of the one-issue whackjobs is confirmed, it attracts a much larger number of centrists which easily outwegh the whackjobs. How much evidence do you need? Just review the voting results in Alberta yesterday for cionfirmation that your theory is simply not valid. Look to the results in Montreal to confirm that the delegate system is the one that is corrupt and easily manipulated by the party elite. After all, their man won......Quelle surprise.

Harper should engineer an election soon, by spring at the latest, to take full advantage of the non-event that Dion represents. Harper will need a theme or topic to bring his own govt down, perhaps the stonewalling of his accountability act in the Senate? That might tie into another theme working in his favour, which is national unity. I know Dion is supposedly a big unity hound, but he won't be able to overcome the general distaste for him in Quebec. Using this as an election theme will also help Charest in the upcoming provincial election, and help keep the pressure on both the PQ and Bloc, both of whom I see as in trouble and increasingly desperate.

Dion was elected because he is less hated than the other candidates. It was the "anybody but iggy" combined with the "anybody but rae" movement. Sorry, but I disagree. Dion was elected because he was the safest candidate. Period. At a moment when the Liberals urgently needed to take a bit of risk, to truly renew their party, to expunge the stain of the sponsorship scandal, to look outside Quebec for a leader, to present Canadaians with the promise and expectation of a new day - they chose the Old Guard, and rather a dull member of the Old Guard at that. Which I predicted 3 months ago. The Liberal National Executive engineered this non-coup, and by doing so have made a grave strategic error. One thing is certain: Harper and his posse are partying hard this weekend. They were just handed a majority and should get Mr. Dion in front of the electorate pronto. What makes it worse for the Liberals is that not only will Mr Dion and company be handed their asses in an upcoming general election, but they are likely going to be stuck with him for another loss after that......

A vote for Morton is a vote for Jesus. Which is why he lost, and never had any real shot at winning. Give Albertans some credit, please.

Hard to disagree with anything yoy say here Betsy.. Everybody was yapping - CBC commentators front and center, they know where their bread is buttered- about 'renewal', moments after they elect the very guy who is the most old school, the most old style Liberal of the Final Four, the person with the most links to everything that got the Liberals booted in the last election. Harper and crew must have partied hard last night......

In 50 years the historians will have placed Chretien at or near the top of the list of Worst Prime Ministers of Canada. His speech just confirmed that he is no statesman, accepts no responsibility for his role in the demolition of his own party, bears grudges against Martin, and brands him as a sarcastic asshole as a little bonus. Nothing new, really.

Sorry, that is a complete misread of what has happened. Morton mobilized the God Squad and not many others. The second ballot comfirmed that completely. He'd have more luck organizing a new church than a new political party.

I think he is going to be an excellent Premier. Dinning would have been too business oriented, and Morton far too socially conservative. Albertans recognized both those realities, and Ed is the winner.

Which is more democratic and egalitarian? $5 and anybody can vote for the leader of the party? Or months of sucking up to everybody locally to get elected as a delegate, then being obliged to spend a few thousand bucks flying to Montreal?

Outstanding results so far. If that stays the same, Stelmach will win because nobody from the Morton camp will have Dinning as second choice. All Stelmach has to do is finish first or second and he is in. It will be refreshing to have a Premier from somewhere other than Calgary. And Morton would have been a disaster in several ways. This is playing out exactly as I predicted here a few days ago. I also predicted Dion would win for the last three months. Yippee for me.

Dion will win for one very simple reason; he is the safe, traditional style Liberal candidate. On an aside, I have been laughing out loud at the completely over-the-top, fawning asslicking coverage of the Liberal convention by the CBC. Last night Newsworld featured updates every 15 minutes of an empty auditorium, nothing happening, nobody there except CBC. Classic stuff.