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You mean the Palestinians should just submit to the blockade, bombing and other pressure from Israel, and somehow just cease to exist. Ya right.

I think because we know that isn't what happens: http://www.straight.com/article-222933/blog-politics-ubc-employment-study-shows-white-supremacy-still-exists-canada UBC employment study shows white supremacy still exists in Canada By Charlie Smith It was a story the media couldn’t resist: UBC study discovers that employers discriminate against applicants with non-English names.

Resign first, or get fired later. Yes. That's the penalty for defying the ruling politicians. Professional honesty and integrity in the public service are valued only to the extent that they support the party in power. Obviously he (and StatsCan) disagreed with Harper's change to the census, but it's not unusual to be in that situation as a public employee and you are expected to just keep quiet (or resign). I think what was intolerable, and motivated Sheikh's resignation was that Clement stated that the government's decision was due to StatsCan's recommendation: http://news.therecord.com/article/746808 Embattled Industry Minister Tony Clement says the decision to replace next year's mandatory long census with a voluntary questionnaire stemmed from recommendations made to him by Statistics Canada. But multiple sources are telling The Canadian Press that is not exactly what happened. The sources say Statistics Canada made no recommendations and only came up with policy options because they were asked to do so by Clement. And they say the data gathering federal agency did not specifically recommend going the voluntary route. Rather, they suggested that either the status quo or the complete eradication of the long list of questions would be the better way to go, several sources said. The option chosen by the federal cabinet was not at the top of the list of options, the sources said. Instead, StatsCan told ministers if they insisted on going that route, they would have to spend more money and dramatically increase the size of the survey in an attempt to get accurate results. "It wasn't recommended," one source said bluntly. That's partly because Clement's choice to make the questionnaire voluntary while increasing the number of households it is sent to is far more expensive and less efficient, the sources explained. That's not how an increasingly defensive Clement presented his case this week. "StatsCan gave me three options, each of which they thought would work," Clement said Friday. "I chose one of those options, with their recommendation." It was the second time in two days that Clement had hinted Statistics Canada was championing his choice. "They gave me options and we chose one of those options," he told reporters in Ottawa on Thursday. "This is a methodology that Statistics Canada offered to us and if it's good enough for Statistics Canada, it should be good enough for some of our critics." "Options" prepared for politicians, with relevant pros and cons, are not recommendations. It's assumed that they will make reasonable decisions based on the implications of each option. StatsCan's recommendation was to keep the long form as is, or do away with it entirely (the implications of which are HUGE). Sheikh resigned because his agency was being used as a scapegoat for an unpopular political decision. ps...This is one time (of many) that I am very happy to be retired, and anonymous on this board. lol Addendum: http://www.torontosun.com/comment/columnists/l_ian_macdonald/2010/07/22/14796211.html Perhaps there’s a Canadian compromise to be found here. The solution seems obvious — maintain the mandatory aspect of the census, but revise the questionnaire to exclude questions that are invasive of citizens’ privacy. Or alternatively ... leave the long form census as is, and individuals can continue to skip questions that they consider an invasion of privacy. Munir Sheikh, StatsCan Jedi

People will fudge or not answer questions here and there, but that's 'random error' in statistical terms and can be dealt with as the representative sampling still remains valid. However, voluntary responding causes 'systematic error' that is much more damaging as the survey no longer represents a valid cross section of the population.

I guess that's what I'm questioning, and I'm not sure you've proven your case. It seems to be a legal conundrum, since "all of Canada" as we know it now, didn't exist in those days, and the Royal Proclamation contains this clause: upon any Lands whatever, which, not having been ceded to or purchased by Us as aforesaid, are reserved to the said Indians, (underline added) It seems the Constitution still leaves the question unanswered: Can the King/Queen plant a flag and claim land already occupied? Personally, I don't think so. I think that's why the treaties we have with Aboriginal people are so important - because to the extent that they were obtained with informed consent, they are the legal foundation of our settlement here, not the Crown's flag-planting.

In England and Wales, there were almost 400,000 Jedis. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedi_census_phenomenon The Jedi census phenomenon is a grassroots movement that was created in 2001 ... it is believed the majority of self-reported Jedi claimed the religion for their own amusement, to poke fun at the government,[1] or as a protest against the inclusion of the religion question on the census form. Other news reports also interpreted the exercise as a massive practical joke.

This one is interesting: * Public servants shall give honest and impartial advice and make all information relevant to a decision available to Ministers. And yet, the chief statistician felt that to be honest, he had to resign first. And yes, he likely would have been fired for being publicly honest to the Harper government. What does that say?

If a (voluntary) survey is used instead of a (mandatory) census, certain types of people are less likely to respond at all - the rich and the poor, for example, likely younger adults and maybe older ones too, and possibly more recent immigrants/refugees. Thus, the resulting data doesn't represent all elements of the population well and over-represents white middle class middle aged Canadians. There is a selective bias in the data and that can lead to wrong decisions about government program needs and funding, etc.

I could never figure that out ... I mean where is Alberta going to go? Up a creek without a paddle perchance?

I must say ... you've certainly got a burr up your butt. Have you tried colon cleanse? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Combination_enema_and_douche_syringe.jpg

Actually, I was quoting Sec 35 ... Section 35 (1) The existing aboriginal and treaty rights of the aboriginal peoples of Canada are hereby recognised and affirmed. http://www.edu.gov.mb.ca/k12/cur/socstud/foundation_gr6/blms/6-3-2c.pdf ... only to point out that Aboriginal rights were and are existing rights that are recognised in our Constitution, not rights bestowed upon Aboriginal people by Canada nor by the Crown.

I see a man of personal principles and professional integrity putting the job ahead of himself. Harper tried to make this change quietly. Boy, did that backfire on him!

Voluntary form is no substitute for a mandatory one, outgoing head of Statistics Canada says Absolutely right. Clement was implying that StatsCan was ok with the choice, and StatsCan couldn't answer back. Now the Chief has resigned so he can have his say: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/chief-statistician-resigns-over-changes-to-census/article1647348/ "I want to take this opportunity to comment on a technical statistical issue which has become the subject of media discussion," Mr. Sheikh wrote. "This relates to the question of whether a voluntary survey can become a substitute for a mandatory census. It cannot," he said. (emphases added) Now that's a man of integrity! Here's mud in your eye HarperClement! YAHOOOOO!

I'm not convinced that Aboriginal lands and governance can come 'under' royal or colonial jurisdiction, just because the Queen (or our federal government) says so. Our Constitution recognizes and affirms "existing Aboriginal and treaty rights". Those Aboriginal rights don't exist because the Queen (or our laws) said so: They exist because they occupied this land for thousands of years prior and those rights cannot be extinguished, regardless of what our documents say.

LARPers ...? live-action role playing oh ... The possibilities are endless ... kid going to play baseball with a bat or ... omigod ... (street) hockey sticks!! The weapons people carry these days! No wonder the police are scared!

Ahh ... the classic uninformed right-wing scare-monger approach. Where on earth did you get that idea? Out of a box of crapperjacks? We do have rights to live here, you know, according to the treaties. We/our governments have violated the treaties but First Nations peoples have not. I believe they will continue to respect our rights and us as human beings. In fact, I have more faith in their integrity than in our governments'. (Ontario Realty Corp, for example ... need I say more?) The government first tries to settle for financial compensation. However, where land transfers are involved, my understanding of such cases is that it proceeds over time, on a willing seller/willing buyer basis. Some people will their land back to the care of First Nations, for example, and there are other ways of respecting their underlying Aboriginal title that have nothing to do with being displaced.

TimG, on 20 July 2010 - 09:15 PM, said: I think problem is we can afford th $9 billion. The question is are their better uses for the money. This is a question I wish would be asked about almost every government spending project. I agree ... and I also think those questions are asked in budget deliberations. Perhaps what we need, and could have in this electronic age, is accerss to better information about alternatives under consideration. Anybody who wants to can locate and wade through government budget decisions, line by line. But perhaps it's the discussions about those budget decisions that we need more information about. As a government manager, I often prepared for discussion/decision progressive drafts of papers outlining various options along with costing, pros and cons, etc. However, once the decisions were made, only the rationale for the final decision appeared. Perhaps public access to such discussion papers would help people to understand how budgeting process and decisions are carried out.

Really? Is that all it would cost to resolve Canada's national debts relating to treaty issues? To me that seems quite fair, over a period of time. EG, assuming a career of 30 years, that's only about $17 a month in additional taxes. I'd support that.

Toronto Police staged a display of weaponry to demonstrate “the extent of the criminal conspiracy” among hard-line G20 protesters, but several of the items had nothing to do with the summit. Facing criticism for their tactics, police invited journalists on Tuesday to view a range of weapons, from a machete and baseball bat to bear spray and crowbars. Chief Bill Blair, who told reporters the items were evidence of the protesters’ intent, singled out arrows covered in sports socks, which he said were designed to be dipped in a flammable liquid and set ablaze. However, the arrows belong to Brian Barrett, a 25-year-old landscaper who was heading to a role-playing fantasy game when he was stopped at Union Station on Saturday morning. Police took his jousting gear but let Mr. Barrett go, saying it was a case of bad timing. In addition to the arrows – which Mr. Barrett made safe for live-action role playing by cutting off the pointy ends and attaching a bit of pool noodle covered in socks – police displayed his metal body armour, foam shields and several clubs made of plastic tubing covered with foam and fabric. Mr. Barrett said he was “appalled” at the placement of his chain-mail beneath a machete. He regularly takes public transit from his Whitby, Ont., home to Centennial Park to play the game, called Amtgard, while wearing the 85-pound armour and is worried people will think: “Oh my God, that’s one of the terrorists from G20.” Police also displayed a crossbow and chainsaw seized in an incident on Friday that they said had no ties to the summit. When asked, Chief Blair acknowledged they were unrelated, but said “everything else” had been confiscated from demonstrators. On Wednesday, however, Michael Went and Doug Kerr e-mailed a letter to Chief Blair saying their bamboo poles may have been included in the exhibit. As they headed to a picnic to commemorate the 1969 Stonewall riots on Sunday morning, police seized seven or eight of the long poles, citing the G20 summit. The couple had planned to use the poles to fly a rainbow flag and decorate the park. “It makes you wonder what are the other things that they’ve displayed [that] were taken from people on the street that weren’t doing anything wrong?” asked Mr. Kerr, a 42-year-old management consultant. Julian Falconer, a Toronto lawyer representing four independent journalists in summit-related police complaints, called the display of unrelated objects a “public-relations exercise [that] borders on the absurd.” Well ... who needs to bother making the police look silly when they accomplish that all by themselves!! Protest HQ with pool noodles and bubbles anyone?

On that we differ, as I believe there is a better chance that all of the people of Venuzuela will benefit from their resources than there is in both "developing" and "developed" countries, where personal greed and private profit hold sway. ... but we digress from the topic of overpopulation, or lack thereof. On that, I'm inclined to take the optimistic view espoused in the OP, because simple projections perhaps underestimate the power of women and birth control.

Last August Venezuela froze relations with Colombia after the U.S and Colombia signed an agreement to install seven U.S military bases in Colombian territory. Colombia, with one of the few right wing governments left in South America, and a strong supporter of U.S policy, is of strategic importance to the U.S’s interests in South America. http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/5499 Unlike other leaders who succumb to personal greed and sell off their country's resources to enrich a few, Chavez is holding firm against US CIA/corporate invasion. What is your idea of "good leadership" in developing countries?

Good leadership ... instead of the ones installed by the CIA. Agreed. Unfortunately, the green-eyed greed monster raises its head and snaps at the CIA bait ... despite the wishes of the people. not fear any serious reprisals. ?? Study up on Chavez and Venuzuela sometime, and their resistance to US imperialism.

That's a joke ... right?

I think what I am proposing is that we stop thinking someone else (eg labour unions) has to do it, and just start doing it ourselves by changing our thinking ... spontaneous change from the bottom, not organized change from the top. An example ... In my youth I knew a rich woman with 5 houses. She spent much of her time organizing, arranging, overseeing and despairing about upgrades, maintenance and repairs. EG, "That's not the way that shelf was supposed to be built! Tom's Scotch bottles won't even fit in there and that was the whole purpose! It's taken two months to organize this one little job, and now it just has to be torn out and done over!"[Goes back to writing her lists.] Watching her, it became very apparent to me early in life that I NEVER wanted to own multiple houses as I dislike such tasks intensely. Likewise multiple cars, boats, planes and even hoards of clothes. Even the thought of a BIG house gives me the creeps! The rich live behind bars ... who wants it! If the money/status/power hungry people come to be seen as they truly are - sad prisoners of their own obsessions - then perhaps wealth redistribution could take care of itself.

We stuck together and even managed to preserve the ******* way of life back in ***** by sending home a great deal of money. In the US, ******* mobilized to preserve their culture. In ******* neighborhoods, ******* shops and other businesses sprung up. ******* made it a habit to buy from other *******. We kept the money in the community and we prospered. I remember my father would never buy from a 'mericano' (American) if he could by it from an *******. *******-American newspapers were published in major cities, immigrant-aid and fraternal societies were formed --i.e., Sons of ***** etc. ******* = insert name of most recent wave of immigrants So ... does anybody else like to shop/eat in ethnic areas of a city? I believe Toronto's most recent entry to the ethnic tourist-destination list is 'Little Ethiopia'- fabulous food! Funny how that diversity which is feared and reviled by some is celebrated and enjoyed by most. I wonder how many times lictor checks under his bed before getting in? Just wondering ... Is Extreme Racism a Mental Illness?