dub

i don't understand the second part of your sentence, but here is a chance for you to learn something about the situation: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsourc...ace/recogn.html

what? i never said that. i'm not sure what you're talking about.

whatever? alright. it's your own choice to declare ben-gurion's words as 'whatever', when it doesn't suit your version of history. it seems like they accepted the borders of the partition plan? you're lying.

heh. the death of the people have been well documented. you're sounding more and more like holocaust apologists. you are a disgusting person, DoP.

the reports keep coming and the apologists keep making excuses.

JERUSALEM (JTA) -- Israel's blockade of the Gaza Strip has left "1.5 million people in despair," a Red Cross report said. The report, released Monday by the International Committee of the Red Cross, says the blockade of the coastal strip is preventing Gaza from rebuilding six months after Israel's military operation in Gaza. Many homes were damaged or destroyed in the operation. "Gaza neighborhoods particularly hard hit by the Israeli strikes will continue to look like the epicenter of a massive earthquake unless vast quantities of cement, steel and other building materials are allowed into the territory for reconstruction," the report said. It called on Israel to "lift import restrictions on spare parts, water pipes and building materials such as cement and steel so that homes can be rebuilt and vital infrastructure maintained and upgraded." The report also criticized the blockade for denying appropriate access to health care for Gazans. "Health issues in Gaza are often politicized and patients find themselves caught up in a bureaucratic maze," it said. "The procedures for requesting permission to leave the territory are complicated and involve both the Palestinian and Israeli authorities."

that's fine. blame me for not accepting the report. you always have an excuse.

13 israelis died. over 1000 palestinians died. it makes sense if you weren't in denial of israelis atrocities.

reality: When Pinhas Rozen (Israel's first Justice Minister) demanded that Israel's Declaration of Independence should cite the country's borders. Ben-Gurion objected, and both exchanged the following points: ROZEN: "There's the question of the borders, and it cannot be ignored." BEN-GURION: "Anything is possible. If we decide here that there's to be no mention of borders, then we won't mention them. Nothing is a priori [imperative]." ROZEN: "It's not a priori, but it is a legal issue." BEN-GURION: "The law is whatever people determine it to be." (1949, The First Israelis, p. xviii) Ben-Gurion clearly never believed in static borders, but dynamic ones as described in the Bible. He stated during a discussion with his aides: "Before the founding of the state, on the eve of its creation, our main interests was self-defense. To a large extent, the creation of the state was an act of self-defense. . . . Many think that we're still at the same stage. But now the issue at hand is conquest, not self-defense. As for setting the borders--- it's an open-ended matter. In the Bible as well as in our history, there all kinds of definitions of the country's borders, so there's no real limit. Bo border is absolute. If it's a desert--- it could just as well be the other side. If it's sea, it could also be across the sea. The world has always been this way. Only the terms have changed. If they should find a way of reaching other stars, well then, perhaps the whole earth will no longer suffice." (1949, The First Israelis, p. 6)

are you saying the video posted about the palestinians and the settlers, a lie? i don't get your statement.

what? this report is done by amnesty international. the proof is here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs...gaza_report.pdf read the report, then comeback to me with what you think and how you reject the report.

what open air prison? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1GDQYafAV8 MORE pallywood!

i usually post them when you do. for one, israel never accepted the 1947 partition plan. they have never accepted it because a partition plan has set borders and israeli has never accepted any of the UN border lines. not the 1947 border and not the 1967 border. there. i showed you.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8128210.stm

listen man. look at the settlements. they're spread all over the place like cancer. the point of the settlements is not to create a buffer zone between the border. please, you're not convincing anybody. i'm sure even you don't believe this. there was never a map released by any party. washington institute for near peace blah blah is in the same league as CAMERA. lets look at what the jewish virtual library has to say. check out the 'israel only' highways the west bank into pieces. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsourc.../cd2000map.html i don't believe you. no sane person would accept living in cantons with its border, air and water controlled. it's not a state. it's an open air prison. sure it would. because israel has been so giving so far. it seems like majority of palestinians refuse to roll over and die as you suggest they should. you're advocating for the palestinians to accept the bullying and whatever israel is willing to give.

lols meaning that you acknowledge spreading half-truths and misinformation? touche, krusty.

more pallywood: check out those child actors. yeah, that's right! no school for you!

the settlements are 'not' near the borders so i'm not sure why you keep going back to this. tell me why you keep repeating this. go look at a map of the settlements before you respond with the same thing. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/2...-palestine-poll the cantons i talked about was in the west bank. barak's proposal meant that the west bank would be cut into 4 cantons with israeli controlled highways separating them. wait for what? you think the palestinians would accept what natanyahu has said? or even barak had offered? they're not going to accept it. i'm optimistic that this pace will not continue. especially not with the growing opposition by jews and israelis and the rest of the world against israel's treatment of palestinians. it remains to be seen how obama will handle this situation, but so far, he's said the right words. but like always, actions speak louder than words. trounced me how? no one has shown me that israel has accepted any UN mandated borders. not the 1948 border and not the 1967 border. if you can show me that they've accepted the border, then please, by all means, surprise me. it took a while, but apartheid south africa was finally defeated. it won't be much longer until it happens. as mentioned before, with the growing discontent of jews and israelis, the world and the shifting of power around the world, things will change for the best.

? of course they did. arafat was considered by the palestinians as their leader. the PLO was recognized as the government of the palestinians. majority of the palestinians, then and now will accept the UN mandated 1967 border. last i heard, hamas was in favour of negotiating based on the 1967 border.

the settlements are not situated along the border. they're situated in sporadic locations in the west bank and achieve no such thing as a buffer zone. sense of urgency? it's been like this for the past 60+ years. coming to a peace deal is something majority of palestinians want. again, they've accepted the 1967 border in the past and israel has done nothing. not sure why you continue to make excuses for these illegal settlements. no matter how you look at it, they're illegal. not true. the only offer that they've had was a proposal by barak, which was never in writing and the proposal was for the palestinians to live in cantons. meaning that they would have to live in 4 areas with israeli controlled highways separating the cantons. not to mention no control of the airspace, borders and waters. yes, this is the best offer israel has given. sad, isn't it? now you have the current government whose stance is even more ridiculous than sharon's. see above about this proposal. israel never accepted the 1948 border. in fact, israel has never accepted any border line. even if you look at their textbooks, the country of israel includes the west bank and gaza and all of jerusalem. just because israel is not willing to give a lawful and reasonable offer, it doesn't mean that the palestinians should accept shit. bullying is not going to win anyone over.

that's the problem. palestinians (arafat and the PLO) recognized israel in 1988 and again during oslo. i'm glad that you're against the settlements. that's a start. it's too bad the israeli government is controlled by ultra right wing people who rather see the continuing of bloodshed rather than following international law and reducing problems just so they can achieve their goal of 'greater israel'. the videos in this thread about the settlements are a small indication of what these settlements are doing. these settlements cost israel billions of dollars every year. they are one of the biggest problems, no matter from which side you look at them.

it's kind of you to recommend expanding the settlements at a slow rate but the settlements are illegal. not sure why you're recommending breaking international law at a slow rate. in 1988, palestinians officially recognized israel and the UN's resolution and israel did nothing in return. what steps has israel taken? before you say 'gaza', i will have to tell you that despite the expensive settlements that left gaza, the illegal settlements have actually annexed more land in the west bank during that time. oh and lol @ the palestinians stalling. that was definitely the howler of the day.

canada also recognizes that the israeli settlements are illegal and 1967 border drawn up by the UN. both of which israel does not recognize. do you support canada's official stance or israel's?

so more of the same. everyone knows suicide attacks are wrong and should be condemned. luckily, there hasn't been one in a while. everyone also knows that rockets fired towards cities are wrong, whether they kill someone or not. it's illegal and it's wrong. i don't see anyone here disputing this. regardless of what the other side does, all sides should follow the law. israel has failed to follow numerous resolutions by the UN (the very same UN that helped create it). this has been going on for the past 60+ years by continuing to increase these illegal settlements which is one of the biggest problems in the conflict. the settlements neither help israel's security or help the peace process. you should stop making excuses for it. surprise me for once and avoid failing at being balanced.

maybe not 'religiously'.