tango

GO TrueMetis! GO TrueMetis! GO TrueMetis! Fascinating, isn't it! And we know so little ...

Too bad. You are wrong. This isn't First Nations seeking input. This is our governments seeking to fulfill their legal duties. I'll take a small wager on it though! And I do wish you'd actually read my posts before responding.

Why shouldn't they be paid? Everyone else at the table is paid. They need professional expertise to review the applications. They are First Nations governance and they are paid for their work, like everybody else. Who the hell can afford to work without pay? Give your head a shake! How much do municipalities charge for reviewing development applications? How much does it cost the the provinces to review/approve development applications? Of course they have to be paid. I say the provinces are not acting in good faith if they are not ensuring that funding is available to facilitate consultation.

Interesting ... and did you notice who was not saying anything? The province ... just laying low ... though facilitating the 'consultation and accommodation process is their responsibility. Those are legitimate costs. It has to be funded, and it isn't clear at present. Obviously, there's going to be a struggle between the municipalities/prov/feds over who's going to fund. It's just political posturing. It isn't resolved entirely here in Ontario either, but it is the province that has to step up to the plate, though they may try to recoup some of the costs from the feds. Of course, municipalities charge exactly the same kinds of fees when they take development applications. Same thing, really. Excuse me for doubting. I momentarily forgot about provincial evasion of responsibility. It's their strong suit. eta - Upon reflection, I actually think this is a wise strategy by the First Nations: Money up front, and you governments fight it out! Otherwise, they're stuck holding the bag as usual, with no funding.

What "municipalities"? When? I don't believe it. The province (Crown) is responsible for facilitating the consultations, including arranging the funding. People do have to be paid for their time: The industry reps are being paid, the provincial reps are being paid. Why would the Indigenous governance reps not be paid? That's ridiculous. And it's likely they would have to hire someone extra, as does the province, since they are not staffed for that - It didn't exist in the past. Granted, the province of Ontario has dragged its feet until the courts ordered them to do it, so there may have been some anomalies along the way. However, that isn't how it really works.

BC was in the thick of it as soon as Sec 35 was in place, because there are no treaties there so there is less need for debate about whether rights exist. The Supreme Court rulings re 'duty to consult' all came from BC. It's more complicated here in Ontario, and I believe perhaps the developers of this generation are more accustomed to having their own way here, so it's more contentious, perhaps. Certainly no engineers here would have learned about Aboriginal rights in college/university, and likely still don't. It's just beginning to be forced into their consciousness. I would guess - maybe stereotypically and if so then someone can correct me - that the Alberta contingent wouldn't be too receptive.

oops

Please provide a reference for that, because I don't know what you're talking about. Actually, it is the provincial governments that are responsible for the costs, assuming they are the ones that want to approve a development/mining/logging etc operation.

Considering the topic of this thread, I should think that's obvious. It's important to all Canadians, if we are to understand how Sec 35 of our constitution (Aboriginal rights) and the laws derived from that came about, like the duty to consult with Indigenous Peoples about development on their traditional lands.

Ya, incredible similarities. Stonehenge is the same kind of 'circle' as found at the 'mound people' locations. http://pages.interlog.com/~gilgames/cahokia.htm # "Woodhenge": an ancient astronomical device, also called a "sun-circle" (in the upper-left) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mound_builder_(people) Mound Builder is a general term referring to prehistoric inhabitants of North America who constructed various styles of earthen mounds for burial, residential and ceremonial purposes. These included Archaic, Woodland period (Adena and Hopewell cultures), and Mississippian period Pre-Columbian cultures dating from roughly 3000 BCE to the 16th century CE, and living in the Great Lakes region, the Ohio River region, the Mississippi River region.[1] While the prevailing consensus since the 19th century has been that the mounds were constructed by Native American tribes still extant at the time of European colonization of North America, none are aware of the civilizations that produced the mounds. Research into this culture is strictly archaeological. Nobody knows ... nobody speaks ... but they are still here.

I'm not trying to prove that. I don't know. I'm just providing information about the established civilizations in North America prior to 'contact'. I found this statement fascinating: At its height, around A.D. 1200, it had about the same population as London, England at the time, with over 10,000 people. There are many other 'mound people' locations too. And there are the petroglyphs in Ontario http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dgarneau/indian6.htm 1,000 B.C. The Ojibwa are believed to have created rock carvings in Petroglyphs Provincial Park, Ontario starting about this time. Joe Lister suggests; "Actually, the glyphs were made by the Iroquois peoples who inhabited the area long before the Ojibwe arrived. The Ojibwe from Curve Lake Reserve help to caretake the area, and hold ceremony there, but they do not know any of the stories that the images represent. The Iroquois, on the other hand, do know the images, and can tell the stories behind most of them. For instance, our creation story is there, with Sky Woman birthing her twins." I just think we should be willing to learn about and understand the cultures that existed here, before we 'interfered' with them. There is a whole lot more to their story, and ours, than we are 'encouraged' to know.

Well ... another topic derailed, and we can't even blame benny. Too bad. It's important, but apparently understanding the current legal situation in regard to aboriginal rights is too threatening to some.

Tell your own story.

On a more interesting topic ... did you check this out yet bonam? http://pages.interlog.com/~gilgames/cahokia.htm

You are not doing Indigenous people any favours, Griz. Stop pretending to speak for them, please. It's offensive.

I'm not sure what Griz's game is, but I know he is not aboriginal. Maybe trying to make them look bad, though?

Ancient North America There were hundreds of towns and cities all over ancient North America. Three were exceptionally large: Cahokia, Illinois; the Moundville Complex, spread out on the Black Warrior River in Alabama, and Etowah. These were simply the largest. There were many other important centres, as well as countless smaller towns and villages. Cahokia's ruins lie on the Cahokia Creek near Collinsville, Illinois, U.S.A. At its height, around A.D. 1200, it had about the same population as London, England at the time, with over 10,000 people. All of these sites were characterized by massive mounds of earth, remarkable constructions that must have taken many thousands of work-hours to produce. There was a long history of cultural development in the American mid-west and south. The "Hopewell" culture complexes of 100 B.C. - A.D. 600 gave birth to the magnificent Missippians, who were at their peak when the Europeans arrived. These urban and agricultural centres were destroyed when the Europeans arrived in North America, but the descendants of their builders have survived to this day. ... Things to note: * "Woodhenge": an ancient astronomical device, also called a "sun-circle" (in the upper-left) * Artificial reservoirs * Roads linking the city to outlying areas and other towns * The palisaded (walled) "downtown" enclosure * Temple complexes (reminiscent of Mesoamerican civilizations in Mexico and Central America) * The "port", with boats and cargo canoes * The ball-court, where various games were played (for sport or ritual) (also reminiscent of Mesoamerican civilizations in Mexico and Central America) * The clusters or neighbourhoods of houses, showing some kind of clan, family, trade or other social-unit sub-organization, indicating a type of complex social structure * The endless sea of farms, the wide extend of agriculture and areas under cultivation http://pages.interlog.com/~gilgames/cahokia.htm There is lots of evidence.

A laugh: http://farmreview.ca/images/uploads/2.jpg Today's news from the site: A commentary on behalf of the National Farmers Union Ontario By Grant Robertson We Ontarians have an addiction to garbage. If you have ever traveled outside the province it is not hard to see how poorly Ontario is at dealing with waste. In Ontario we seem to have come to the conclusion that we have lots of ‘vacant’ rural land so we can throw our garbage in a really big pile, throw soil over it and forget about it. more ... http://stopdumpsite41.ca/

This is racist: report ignore

First you should look in the mirror to see what a disgusting fucking racist pig looks like!!

Do you know a plumber who can fix the whole town's sewage for free? They have no money to pay for it, and the feds won't help. Seems to have something to do with the mining development. Does your plumber make house calls to Attiwapiskat? http://www.maplandia.com/canada/ontario/ke...t/attawapiskat/ http://wawataynews.ca/archive/all/2009/8/6...by-sewage_17818 Maybe read up a bit before passing ignorant judgment. 'Indian' Affairs is responsible for housing - part of the agreement when they were forced onto 'reserves'. You can tell the quality of 'housing' INAC provides. Housing designed to kill, imo.

We can't make our own laws without the Queen's consent. Is that clearer? And just to shake things up a bit ... The Queen/GG is also the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of Canada. These are all safeguards to protect us from ill-intentioned and corrupt politicians.

DAMN! I thought it was too civilized around here lately!

uh-oh! # Start the Benny virus article or add a request for it.

Sheila rocks! Some people ask to be choked ... BABY!