Sully

I have had to reply to d4dev comments like this: I was not blaming all immigrants for a lack of skills. I am sure some have great skills and others not so great. I have stated all along that businesses decide who gets the jobs and economic conditions determines how many jobs are available. But if this statement above were true than all available jobs would go to these amazingly superior immigrants, obviously that is not the case and I think we can both agree that there are many reasons for unemployment. But its suprising to me that some people do not believe that these immigrants should have to face the realities of finding work like the rest of us Canadians.

No s#$t we know this already, but Palestinians can thank their leaders for the killing of innocents. Israel's intentions are not to kill innocent, but it will happen. In that part of the world its C'est la vie. Sad but true. Yes I expect that they would have billboards and men flaggin the choppers down. So blame the Hamas for locating their operations there. I know you would love the Israeli's to just take attack after attack and sit idle, but I am all for supporting the Israelis in retaliating harder at defined targets. Illegal as deemed by who the UN, hahah the UN is a joke when it comes to dealing with world issues, they are a figure head with no real power. Canada went in illegally to former Yugoslavia, we were really wrong to, not at all. The UN already has too much blood on its hands to condemn any action of Israel (Rwanda) Do you realize that Hamas is not interested in a peaceful settlement with the Israeli's they want all Israeli's pushed into the sea and gone for good. Do you really think that many Palestinians were on the fence about possibly supporting Israel, hahahahah. Hate for Israel is rampant among people over there, killing their muderous leaders is the only thing they can do when everyone wants them dead. No thanks, that part of the world loves violence, and personally thats not my thing. No I do not want to be seated in front of a weapons cache that fronts as a peaceful Ramullah cafe. I do not want to be blown to bits when the Israeli's come to exterminate vermin and bombs that are to be used against them in the future. Sorry I ll take trips to the Caribbean first. Palestine is not on my top ten vacation spots.

For example there are many reasons for unemployment, here in BC there are significant amounts forestry workers, former government employees, and health care workers who will be out of a job. The reasons behind a major portion of unemployment is political (softwood lumber dispute, Liberals trying to revamp our ailing health care, reduction of a bloated government) as well as economic conditions. Being skilled and educated does not guarantee anyone a job, we are all at the mercy of economics (supply and demand) and politics. Those two key issues make a siginificant contribution to unemployment figures.

No worries bout the rudeness thing, its easy for all of us to come off as implying or sounding like something we did not intend. I am looking for a example for you may take me sometime. Cause I wanna bring some proof for ya. The point your missing is that there is obviously a clear distinction between what the two separate identies, Government and Business want. Government wants one thing, business wants another. Immigrants must meet both standards, not just the governments, afterall its the employer paying the wage not the government. And the stuff you keep mentioning about CHANCE it is the same thing all of us face. If I want a better job, I have to compete against people with more experience than myself and most likely I will not get that job. These chances are the same for everyone with equal skill sets. Obviously these immigrants possess lower skill sets or else they would get jobs, do you not see that. Not all immigrants possess such superior training and skills as you seem to imply. Talk to Canadians and see if they have had to face this situation before, once again nothing new, most Canadians have dealt with this issue before. See this is exactly what I was afraid of lowering standards for immigrants to allow them to get jobs. I mentioned this before NO WAY SHOULD ANY CANADIAN support that idea. Its silly and will result in more trouble than its worth. How about making it easier for existing Canadians with skills to get work. I know we need immigrants and yes if jobs go unfilled by Canadian, then great let a skilled immigrant who meets Canadian standards fill that position. NO LOWERING OF STANDARDS AS YOU SUGGEST. Please answer me why you think that an immigrant should get certified easier than a Canadian? Read the papers supply of University grads has outpaced the demand for them, I know I am a recent one. Some industries may face shortages, while others supluses. But overall too much supply right now. Immigration is being allowed for many reasons, if you think its solely for bringing a worker here to pay taxes, I wish. You know how many grannies and grampies make their way over here cause their younger generations are here. Look around those people were not born here, they immigrated, hardly what you would call a skilled worker. Immigration is needed, but I do believe in part that it is somehow believed that immigration is needed to make a country grow. Canada with such a small population and large country feels the need to have more people. Out of the seven top GDP whose has the smallest population?

Hmmmm well lets point out some facts here. 1.) Israeli's are not DIRECTLY targeting INNOCENT women and children, unlike the HAMAS. 2.) Unfortunately you cannot see that the tactics that HAMAS and many other terrorists employ. They locate their operations in the middle of neighbourhoods and citizens in order to spoil an attack from Israel. Thankfully that does not work and unfortunately innocent people will pay the price. Of course the Palestinians do garner support from people like you, cause you only see their side in the fight, you see what they want to see. "Neighbourhoods Attacked" aka Hamas base of operations that they knowingly located in areas of numerous citizens. 3.) How many times have the strikes by the Israeli's resulted in the death of Hamas leaders, lots and that means they are getting results and have every right as a sovereign nation to protect themselves and prevent future attacks. Why don't you go hang out at an Israeli cafe for the afternoon, we will see how enjoyable that cup of coffee is, who knows you could be the next target. Hmmmmm when did I ever mention Hamas hijacking airlines, did I miss something here!!!!!! It does sum it up, if you cannot call Hamas a terrorist organization (very silly if you cannot) then what would you call people who hijack planes. I am very curious!!!!

Hmmmm whats makes the sensible people of this world think that Hamas is a terrorist organization? Hmmmmm tough one there, I can really not think of anything other than the taking credit, time and time again for the suicide bombings of innocent Israeli women and children. How silly of me thats really nothing isn't it........... Oh and I mean how dare we label people who hijack commercial airliners terrorists, all they really want to do is live out their life's dream of becoming a "Steward." Even for those few days of scaring innocent passengers s!@tless, they got to feel what it was like to live a dream. Sounds stupid doesn't it, YES I KNOW, just like many things on this thread.

I personally do not "define" anything, actually the businesses define what it is they are looking for in an employee. I never stated that immigrants are not the best people, nor do I assume they are any better than Canadians. No I do not work for immigration Canada, but I do know that many people do not deserve to be here and many do deserve too. And in many instances yes Tom, Dick and Harry do come in, do not be so naive. Foreign professionals have foreign credentials thats great if you work in that foreign country. But they have to have Canadian credentials and standards to work in CANADA, thats what I am talking about. These professionals have to conform to the Canadian system not vice versa, until then do not expect to work in that field. Tell me how they are not given a CHANCE, state how it is any different looking for a job from an immigrants standpoint, they have every CHANCE I have. I cannot be an engineer if I wanted to, why not, because I do not meet the Canadian Standards for practicing engineering here in Canada, and I do not have my B.Eng from a credible school. Reading through that article you can see many reasons why immigrants do not get jobs. Language skills, education, age, Canadian work experience, wow sounds exactly like the same things I face. Language is not an issue for me cause I was born here and spoke English all my life. Those are obvious valid points on why, if I was an employer, I would not hire an immigrant w/o those skills. No one is questioning intelligence here, just necessary skills to be compentent at a job that someone pays you for. Canada need immigrants, but the businesses have the final say in who they hire, thankfully. I agree that encouraging immigration should be for people who meet the criteria that is asked of by employers not government. Load of crap, the statistics show these people have work, albeit not the dream job they wanted. Therefore are making money and able to pay taxes, thats fine with me, but I am not going to lose sleep over immigrants not getting their dream, sorry I have to worry about getting my dream job first. Now here is where you are dishing out the crap. IF FOREIGN TRAINED WORKERS ARE AS WELL TRAINED AS YOU HAVE STATED. WHY CAN THEY NOT GET JOBS, WHO ARE FILLING THOSE POSITIONS? OH YES ITS THOSE NOT AS WELL TRAINED CANADIANS. I BELIEVE WE ARE AS WELL TRAINED AS ANY GROUP. IMMIGRANTS ARE BROUGHT HERE TO FILL THE POSITIONS THAT GO UNFILLED BY CANADIANS. AND RIGHT NOW THERE ARE NOT MANY GOOD POSITIONS TO BE FILLED BY CANADIANS OR IMMIGRANTS. CAN YOU NOT SEE THE DISCREPANCY BETWEEN WHAT BUSINESSES DEMAND AND WHAT THE GOVERNMENT DEMANDS OF IMMIGRANTS. TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT THINGS. WITHOUT A DOUBT I BELIEVE THE GOVERNMENT IN MANY INSTANCES BRINGS IN TRASH FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD.

No I do not know of any immigrants who are suffering from that problem, but I do know many Canadians who are. So even mentioning second class treatment is a load. There can be many reasons for not being employed at the job we all want. We are all susceptible to economic conditions and thus supply and demand dictate how many jobs that are available. That being said low demand further raises the bar for people applying to those jobs. The company can demand more and more from the applicants which is in their rights, hell if I own a business I want the best people working for me. Yes people move here for the "CHANCE" of a better living, no where can anyone "GUARANTEE" that. Immigrants are not guaranteed a job with security for life, wonderful pensions, a high paying job etc.. Who are you kidding. Secondly if their lives were as suitable to their needs as you make it out to be, then its not our fault they gave that up to come here, do not lay the blame on Canada. Immigrants like the rest of people of Canada have to work at finding jobs too, they are no more special than the rest of us in the job pool. You also state that people migrate here because they "THINK" not because they actually know, once again this is not Canada letting anyone down. And of course people would not move here if it would reduce your standard of living, but whats your point? And I hope that when you state that it is the responsibility of Canada to ensure a fair playing field, that assurance which immigrants already have like the rest of us, NO GUARANTEES, would not cost a cent. I do not want my tax dollars funding a program to benefit someone who has not yet contributed to this country. And also it will be a program that I myself, would not be able to take advantage of. Seems to me like that would make me a second class citizen, now wouldn't it. Whats to comapre, this is an apples and oranges comparison. I am quite sure that Canadian grads, with Canadian degrees, meeting Canadian Standards are more likely to get Canadian jobs, makes sense to me, there is nothing tricky about that one. These grads should get those jobs with high criteria that need to be met. If this somehow seems unfair to you, too bad, cause this is the real world. Lets hope that standards are not lowered to accomadate immigrant standards. If immigrants meet these standards then thats great they will get a job like they should. I think immigrants can fill highly qualified positions if there are no Canadians to fill them. As for you stating most if not all immigrants never get a chance to work in their fields of expertise, thats bullcrap, not every immigrant that moves here would be a great addition to Canada, not every immigrants holds a Doctorate. Lets make that clear. You might not want to read this so turn away, I am going to open your eyes to the real business world. If you are still reading you had your chance. There are no guarantees in life, I know it sucks. You will not always get the job, horrible isn't it. Does not matter what ethnic group or your country of origin, you will still have to meet certain standards before getting a job. The days of being able to walk into a business and walk out with a job are over, along with job security for life. That is the reality that Canadians and IMMIGRANTS will face. As for the support of discrimination, I actually need you to explain logically what that discrimination is before I can say that I support it. Seems like you are dying to call me a racist or bigot aren't ya. As for your last point this is the easiet one to answer. How would I feel eh? Well let me say this just because I feel that I am "A FIRST CLASS ENGINEER" doesn't make me one, I would love to think that I am just the most amazing thing at my position. Sadly the difference between the way we perceive ourselves and the way the world does is vastly different. Secondly this is Canada who cares about someone moving to the US. Lastly Does anyone know when you work at Rotten Ronnies, do you get a staff discount? Cause thats gotta count for something.

d4dev says: Not just that, but when the government starts discriminating between it's own citizens by doling out second-class treatment to immigrants is what makes one's blood boil. All the people that are coming here are qualified professionals. Why should they be receiving this second-class treatment? What second class treatment are you talking about please give specifics. I think that is a load. People who move here are moving here for the "CHANCE", not the guarantee of a better life. I can assure you that these people are not promised great jobs over Canadian citizens as soon as they get here. Just like Canadians who are born here and have higher degrees, that does not ensure you that you will have a job and nor should it. We are all in this together. I do not see any second class treatment by the government at all. I mean we can always make it the case something is wrong when things do not go a certain way, but thats the way things are today. Using the race card is just another excuse for a group who does not like to face the reality of the situation.

Well anything that puts the Liberals in a bad light is A-ok with me. Lets hope it further reduces their support. But as for this being a racist act, its not Pia Shandel (White woman, and please do not make it into a sexist thing) was ousted by another more "suitable" candidate on Vancouver Island. All for apparently some remarks she had made years earlier. Its all about winning and who is most likely to win those seats. The Liberals have had their hands in all ethnic communities, look at the recent scandal here in BC with the mass signings of memberships of Indo-Canadians. The point its all about winning and nothing to do with race.

I know lets somehow relate this Svend Robinson case to Saddam Hussein, lets somehow relate it to Adolf Hitler, lets relate it to the issues of his political views. All I have stated all along is that there was a criminal act on Mr. Robinson's part, he should be held accountable like anyone else, me or you, Liberal, Conversative or NDP. All governments have made some stupid decisions no doubt, whether they be Liberal, Conservatives, or NDP. But when the NDP acts like all things are fine and dandy and say it was only a $50,000 ring, it wasn't like he stole millions. Whats to stop the Federal lying Liberals from using that rationale and say well we only stole hundreds of millions of dollars, it wasn't like we stole billions, which we all know they probably have. But what is so clear cut about Svend's case is that there was a theft involved, there is no denying it, he admitted it and this case should be treated like you or me had committed it. PERIOD.

Hey I hope the lefties are reading the papers or watching the news, seems like the facts are starting to come out about Mr. Robinson. Hope you actually make yourself aware to them, rather than ignore them because they make your guy look bad.

Ahh Maple maybe its just me, but the way I see it you are strengthening my position on the way the left likes to compare apples and oranges. This thread is on Mrs. Robinson, not Mr. Campbell. Anyhoo! Looking at the subsequent messages there is your answer to the Mr. Campbell drinking driving saga. I am surprised that someone like you, someone with obviously an enormous amount of time on your hands, wouldn't actually follow through on reading the whole story and not just focus on the parts you like. Let me pose this question to you Maple!!!! Would you actively support me if I performed the theft that Mr. Robinson did? Hmmmmmm probably not, cause you wouldn't give a damn, you would see me as a regular Joe Blow wouldn't ya. Thats exactly how the rest of us see Svend, just as a regular Joe Blow, who should be held accountable for his actions. Funny how on the one hand you do not want Svend held accountable for unlawful behaviour, yet surprise you want the Liberals lynched. Hmmmm I think I smell something, oh ya its hypocrisy. Its people like you who will set a precedent for making it possible for the Fed. Liberals to get away scott free, with these kind of views. You cannot have it both ways Maple, either you are on the side of the same law for all, or you are above the law because you support the NDP. Make your choice!!!!!

Wow funny how the left gets sidetracked yet again. Hmmmm, lets compare the liberals and conservatives to Mr. Robinson so it pales in comparison. Wow neat trick, but somehow that still does not erase the fact that the man STOLE!!! YES STOLE!!!! a $50,000 ring. Keep comparing apples and oranges lefties. You are sure making your point of how the left thinks and acts on emotion rather than reason and logic. Hey NDP can I borrow that big broom you guys use to sweep the actions of your leaders under the rug.

Not following you on this one. I do not see how the act of theft is somehow lost in all this. Do I think Svend is sorry for what he did, I do, partially. Do I think he should be charged, Yes I do. Does his public career have any bearing on this outcome. Yes it does, but it shouldn't. Here is another politician that is going to get away with a crime that you or me would not, do not kid yourself. The business probably has forgiven him for a few reasons , who could ask for such publicity and advertisement. Also, why would they charge him, when the outcry from the left would be overpowering. The business has its hands tied. They do not want their business boycotted by supporters. This has no real bearing on me, I am not in the position to forgive, he has never represented my views or my vote. Nor has he trespassed against me. Do I think he is a bad man, nope. Good people still make bad decisions which they should be held accountable for. As for your diagnosis of kleptomania, I will leave that to the professionals who diagnose it. But I do not understand all these excuses people are making for him. I also do not understand that he wanted a former MP to resign due unlawful conduct, which the MP did. But he is only stepping aside for the time being, not practicing what he preaches and keeping his staff at arm's length. This was not a small jube jube out of the bulk bin that he stole, this was a $50,000 dollar ring, worth more than most people's cars, or a good years salary. As for the speculation part of the story, I am not fully convinced that Mr. Robinson gave back the ring for genuine reasons, which I am entitled to believe. I believe this because he mentioned that people recognized him and that cameras would have most likely seen the theft transpire. Had he left out those points I would be more likely to believe his conscience brought the ring back rather than fear of being caught. This line of thinking is not mean-spirited or rubbish its called rationale and logical thought. This world is not a perfect Utopia, good people do bad things and those actions should not be candied coated with all things nice and fluffy. I am not preaching hate on this man, course some will see it that way because I do not see it their way. I want what I believe would happen to me, to happen to him. Appear before a judge. If found guilty then so be it, if not than he has proven to the law of the land that there was a rational excuse for irrational behaviour. As for the comparison of Robinson to our wonderful leaders like Dumb and Dumber is silly to say the least. I mean No S%^t these dipsticks are as crooked and corrupt as they come. But thats got no bearing on what Mr. Robinson has done, so lets stick to this case, rather than comparing apples to oranges (stinking, rotting oranges that is)

Is that an online poll, if it is its meaningless, who is more likely to answer that poll someone who supports svend or someone who is against or indifferent. You can throw figures around all day, but the fact of the matter is that if it were you or me who stole that ring. Charges would be laid.

Thats great as long as justice is served!!!

Wow anyone can be in politics these days eh!! Well I guess if there is one party that would be able to capitalize on this woman, its the NDP. I mean it must be good for the NDP to be able to grandstand her and buy the immigrant vote. I do not know why she is vowing to fight for immigrants rights. I mean do immigrants have less rights than the rest of us or maybe more than the rest of us. If you are moving to Canada does it not signify that you are moving here for the improvement to your life.

Well lets hope Svend gets what he deserves. Clearly the facts are that he stole the $50,000 ring. He knew that the people working there would recognize him, he knew that all his moves would most likely be caught on video camera. So its not a far stretch to think that his conscience along with his return to rational thinking (hmmmmm, haaaaaa, doh !!! I might get caught) that made him bring back the ring. This is speculation but who knows maybe the people he stole from informed him he had been caught on candid camera and gave him the chance to confess. Anways, lets hope another politician does not get away with any unlawful behaviour regardless of whatever party they are associated with. Also lets hope that the Svend's decision on seeking medical leave for his stress, does not cloud the issue at hand. The man is a thief. If we start allowing this type of behaviour to persist we are in trouble. There are many people is this world who are under more stress than Mr. Robinson and DO NOT STEAL. I mean if we accept this line of thinking then everyone has an excuse for any of their actions, no matter how heinous. In regards to Black Dogs post: On the issue of the Mr. Robinson and the ring, the others I cannot comment on, nor do I care too. Alliance Fanatic is bang on. I am absolutely baffled by the blindness of many "lefties". I mean I will admit one hundred percent that lefties or NDPers, especially here in BC, are devoted and loyal followers of their leaders. But it also seems to me that this blind devotion leaves many leftists without the ability to use their brain and good judgement. Time and time again I hear the left trying to lynch Campbell for his drinking and driving. Yet a prime example of hypocracy of these lefties deals with a man that was continually voted into office by them and still holds a lot of support even after leaving politics. An honourable, honest, caring and sincere man named Moe Sihota. Please go on the internet and look up this man's history. I am sure it will impress. So I guess its ok for the left to sweep the misdeeds of their politicians under the rug and proclaim the right is out to get them, which is not true, we are just out for justice.......

I do not agree with everything the Liberals have done. But I absolutely agree with the way the Liberals have finally dealt a huge blow to the power of the unions here in British Columbia. Finally the strangle hold that the unions held over BC during the NDP years, has been scaled back. And for all those people who expect economic policies to immediately result in the intended benefits, that is not possible, these policies will take a few years at best. Finally we are starting to see them, investment in BC is moving up and also more people are moving back to BC after a few years of net migration loss. He, the Liberals are not perfect, but a bad liberal government is better than a good NDP government anyday of the week.

Liberals Need to Get Back on Track Without a doubt the liberals need to rid themselves of Gordon Campbell, the guy lacks the charisma and intensity to lead the party. But lets hope that we do not have to face the possibility of another NDP govt. A poorly lead liberal govt. is better than a well run NDP govt, anyday of the week.

Liberals Need to Get Back on Track Without a doubt the liberals need to rid themselves of Gordon Campbell, the guy lacks the charisma and intensity to lead the party. But lets hope that we do not have to face the possibility of another NDP govt. A poorly lead liberal govt. is better than a well run NDP govt, anyday of the week.

I am speaking as a conservative. Personally I would love for the left-wingers to try "practice what they preach". That being tolerant of other peoples views. Time and time again we hear them crying bigot, homophobe etc. when others disagree with their views. Why is it not right for anyone to disagree with their ideas. That being said lets answer those questions that have been posed, albeit logically. There is no real connection or link between how "right-wingers" view the freedom to make money and the freedom of how people choose to live their lives. The poor can become rich, just look at Oprah. The homosexual community enjoys wealth as much as anybody, just look at hollywood. Money knows no skin color, there are Chinese, Arab and Black billionaires (And no one is saying that all people with money are good people). Money knows no boundaries or borders, all people on any point of the political spectrum aspire to be wealthy. People with ambition and drive are more likely to succeed financially in this world, thats the way it is and should be in a free market system. Also there are limits to how people can make their money, people cannot make a product to harm others and profit. People cannot operate and make a profit in the slave trade here in Canada. These are just some of the many examples of offences that right-wing minded people agree, should be outlawed. Now as for the debate on homosexuality, this is a different matter altogether. As a conservative, I could care less what people do with their lives, as long as I am not told how I should feel about a particular subject. But when I am being called a homophobe because I do not endorse gay marriage. Well so be it, I could care less. But I ll tell you why I do not endorse it. I have always viewed marriage as between a man and a woman. Why shouldn't I have that view? I do not doubt that a homosexual couple loves each other any less than any other couple, I do not have any problem with them having a legal union. But not all traditional views have to change. We are not an "enlightened society" because all traditions must evolve with time, some are timeless like marriage. I am sure that the term marriage was given and created for the symbol of love between man and woman and should always remain sacred in that respect. I am young and open minded at 26 years of age, but no where does it say I cannot hold strong the values that have been passed down to me through my family and my view of society. Here is the chance for the gay community to start fresh and create their own unique view of the union between that particular group in society. Just don't threaten our view on marriage, thanks.