joan

Again you bypass the point: Valid sales, leases require that payment be made, or the property reverts to the original owner. The people who leased/bought Six Nations land never made payment, so the land reverted to Six Nations long ago. The Confederacy is now in the process of informing the residents of the Haldimand Tract and their municipal governments of this fact. See, the government is caught in a deceitful web of governments' own making, and refuses to address either possible outcome: - If they say the lots were legitimately sold, they have to provide the money (in today's currency, with compound interest) - If they say they were not paid for, Six Nations owns the land outright. - As for leases, the outstanding payments are HUGE, and the Ontario land deeds are invalid. For example, for one portion of Brantford the outstanding leases amount to $252b in today's money, and compound interest has to be added to that, according to a recent ruling of the Supreme Court. This is the dilemma our governments find themselves in due to Canada's consistent pattern of illegal acts in regard to Aboriginal land. Six Nations can bankrupt Canada all by itself, if that is what they chose to do. Instead, they are working with governments and residents to arrive at mutually acceptable solutions. The difference is that this time the balance of benefit will be theirs, not ours, for a change. I am quite certain, for example, they will not kidnap and torture and murder our children. We should be thankful they are decent people not inclined to revenge, and not inclined to the devious and hateful things our governments have done to them. They are better people than we are.

http://www.rrj.ca/issue/1991/summer/125/ From behind the tarpaulin, Mohawks-and a band of renegade journalists who have ignored army pressure to clear out-watch the shadows of soldiers fixing their bayonets for the first time since they replaced the Surete du Quebec (the provincial police) 17 days ago. Major Alain Tremblay, commander of C Company of the Royal 22nd Regiment, yells, "I'm not going to fuck around here. I have a military job to do, and I'm going to do it," and orders his men to "lock and load," a euphemism for "prepare to fire." Harry Oakes, an Akwesasne Mohawk known as Beekeeper, orders the Warriors to do the same. Then, as quickly as it starts, the confrontation stops. Robert Skidders, a 53-year-old American Mohawk known as Mad Jap, tells the Warriors to cool it. And they do. This incident erupted less than 24 hours after the retreat-on orders from the: army-of a couple of dozen reporters, photographers and camera operators to a vantage point behind a shoulder-high wall of sandbags half a kilometre from the firing line. Lieutenant-Colonel Pierre Daigle explained that journalists "were simply getting in the way." But the journalists behind the wire stayed there in defiance both of the army and the example set by their more compliant colleagues. They were determined to provide an independent version of events in the Mohawk camp. Without them, as it turns out, the Canadian public would never have known what really happened the night the Oka standoff nearly became a shooting war-the time that came to be called the Night of the Bayonets.

simply nonsense :lol: There is no law to support that.

You are missing the point: They are correcting our injustices against them. And our law supports them, because injustices were done. It is as simple as that. Only problem is our governments won't admit it, won't tell us. But somebody has to tell us, because they are not waiting for our governments anymore. Acknowledgment of their jurisdiction, a say in development and a share in revenues. Could be as simple as that too, all across the country, but our governments have other agendas than settling any of these claims, imo, like preserving the billion$ dollar 'land claims industry' and covering their own a$$e$.

Hmm ... a bit harsh, perhaps, but a point well taken that there certainly is a problem with that. I hope the public and police (OPP2006) reaction is changing that ... Nobody wants that, except maybe sicko predator types, of whom even one alive is one f*predator too many, imo.

This strikes me as a bit over the top, charter. just saying ... It's about bridges, not guns. holitoot! chilax!

They were 14 year old girls. Go back in your hole, eh?

Of course, and mine too. We can't discount that there is very good reason for downsizing our rampant and ghastly plans for expansion, given that land in the intensification areas ... the 'Places to Grow Act' in Ontario ... the Haldimand Tract ... is now in dispute. You may be right about the large houses transferring within families from boomers to their echo-boom. However, there aren't as many of them, and even fewer in front and behind them: http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census06/a...rts/chart13.htm It isn't just condos, smaller one story houses too. Lots of people prefer other things to do instead of house and yardwork, like walking, lawn bowling, sailing, traveling, etc. There will be a variety of choices, but the demographic tells an interesting story for housing, I think, and for retail too, come to think of it.

I'll look forward to your evidence on that. However, there likely will not be as much development as was anticipated and already approved: Some kinds of development are not on the Haudenosaunee plan, and have stopped (Douglas Creek Estates, Walmart, Edwards Landfill expansion with local landowners, Hagersville, York, action in Brantford). I am so glad they have done this. There is rampant undesirable development ... SPRAWL on the greenfields out there, in a watershed that was full to capacity 10 years ago (GRCA). It's disgusting, UNNECESSARY, soon to be WHITE ELEPHANT development that nobody wants, and nobody wants to look at. It is disgusting, as I said. Caledonia is a jewel waiting to be cut properly and burnished: A paradise for retirees who want to look down at the beautiful river and town and green and rolling countryside that is the valley of the Grand River, and walk a block to the old downtown, to the river trails, riverside, or drive 15 min to Lake Erie beaches, sailing. I could go on ... but you get my drift. They need to do what we all need to do: Scale down, intensify, use the brownfields, restore buildings, downtowns (stop demolition.). GET PREPARED for the baby-boom downsize into 1 level accommodations with all conveniences and amenities nearby. Currently the bulge year itself is 42-43 years of age, likely already in family homes, and their parents are still too. However, the parents are leaving them in increasing numbers for the next 20 years, and the shadow of the baby boom will be a horrible glut of such houses leaving ugly scars on the land that was ... maybe crack houses of the future? :lol: imo, there is room for lots of development of the right kind. I think it's great that Haldimand County Council is putting a trail from Caledonia to Lake Erie. That will be very popular, and will draw/keep the people who need more intensive housing: the young and the 'elder'. -edit to add- I believe this is David Crombie's direction. The trail ... restoring bridges ... other options for development. Point being, I guess, it isn't a race for the most or the money, but a quest for the best for the people and the earth, and I totally support that. So we will have to agree on appropriate measures. More is NOT better. Innovation will get a big shot of 'motivation', I expect.

You miss the point, noahbody: They never gave up ownership of the land to the government: The government only acted as property manager. The land was and is theirs. No I don't think the leases and mortgages are available online as they are part of the negotiations. However, it is a pretty standard clause that the property reverts to the seller if the buyer defaults (and they virtually all did.) Six Nations is currently conducting an information campaign up and down the Grand to inform people that the land belongs to them. I don't see anyone even trying to stop them. The government knows the truth. They just don't have the guts to tell us.

No I do not believe it reflects on the military. However, their lack of response to it does say something. I am not anti-army or police. I support the troops, the police, etc., most of whom do their jobs well. When they don't, though, it is a travesty. However, it is the response (or lack of) from higher ups that I question. I don't know if any of you watched the Senate hearings about RCMP Commissioner Zacardelli, but I'll tell you it was both extremely distressing and disheartening, and encouraging at the same time. Zacardelli lied his face off, twisted words, told partial truths, etc. His next in command called his bluff, called him a liar, and all the officers in the crowd guffawed in agreement. It is a case of "the front line is ok but the management SUCKS". However, I believe that kind of corruption does filter down to the 'line' and gets imitated there. The soldiers at Oka were far out of line. We were told nothing about it. I wonder if the girls had died ... would we have been told that either? I doubt it. It is not the people, it is the systems that are ingrown and corrupt, and all still carrying on the same way they did in the 20's 30's and 40's when Canada's ethnic cleansing campaign was in full swing. Only the OPP have had a wakeup call.

Wild Bill, you need to do some research on 'systemic racism'. W NEVER hear the truth about our government's actions against Indigenous Peoples. If you want the truth, you have to go looking for it. The government won't tell the truth. The police won't tell the truth. The media won't tell the truth. We all know that we have a lot to lose to their legitimate land claims. Is debt to another jurisdiction a good excuse for a sustained campaign of racist propaganda? Or should we perhaps be trying to work things out amicably since we all have to live here?

I am sure she would be happy to show you her xrays. Really, Wild Bill, I would believe her before you anyday. What a hateful thing for you to say. I can assure you, they would prefer the land in its original condition. However, unfortunately most of it is pretty contaminated. We have been paying nickels and dimes compared to what our true debt to them is. Do some research, lad. That is a silly argument. :lol: Ya right! the old "let's call them terrorists" lie. What a poor excuse for a well-informed person you are, wb: Drowning in mainstream media trash, and believing it? Well I am sure you are not missed. You are not "concerned". You hope something bad does happen. However, there has already been a backlash in Caledonia, a bunch of white supremacists and hangers-on repeatedly coming to town at invitation of a few local racists, to try to provoke violence. That has been dealt with by the police for now. The normal people in Caledonia just go about their business. There is no 'huge groundswell of opposition' against Six Nations: Just the same few nutbars and their 'masters', and no decent person is interested in being associated with them. As for your support of 'settling the land claims' ... Anyone who truly supports that does not support our governments methods, because they lack 'good faith'.

:lol: :lol: only in your dreams!

Did you even read what I wrote? We don't pay them anywhere near what we owe them. Get a grip and save your whining for when we have to pay what we truly owe them. No guilt here ... when you acknowledge the truth, the guilt goes away. It is only those who try to keep themselves in denial who feel 'guilt' because they know they are wrong but won't admit it to themselves. The truth will set you free! :lol:

What is interesting, and disturbing, on this topic is that the federal government IS free to direct the activities of the RCMP, where the Ontario government is NOT free to direct the activities of the OPP. Evidence: OPP Oath I solemnly affirm that I will be loyal to Her Majesty the Queen and to Canada, and that I will uphold the Constitution of Canada and that I will, to the best of my ability, preserve the peace, prevent offences and discharge my other duties as a Commissioned Officer, faithfully, impartially and according to law. RCMP Oath I, ............, solemnly swear that I will faithfully, diligently and impartially execute and perform the duties required of me as a member of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, and will well and truly obey and perform all lawful orders and instructions that I receive as such, without fear, favour or affection of or toward any person. So help me God. The RCMP owe allegiance ONLY to those who give them orders (and who that is is not defined), whereas the OPP have an individual obligation of loyalty to the Queen (including the Queen's Treaties) and to uphold the Constitution, independent of any orders they may be given. The RCMP is in need of a major overhaul, and clarification of their responsibilities to protect the freedom and rights of Canadians, because right now, OUR rights are overridden by any orders they receive from anyone 'above'. I do not believe we are protected from dictatorship. Harper controls the RCMP and the army. So did every other Prime Minister.

No the point was you want your family's land back, and for that you have just as much right as Aboriginal people, IF you have lawful evidence of ownership, as they have. I am not sure what the rules are for membership in Indigenous Nations. You might want to check it out before you make a hasty decision to go that route.

Actually, no, we live on their 'dime': Canada's economy is ENTIRELY dependent on resources from Indigenous land, from which they get NOTHING. We have been nothing but thieves and parasites since we landed here five hundred years ago. You are mistaken.

The developers are convinced. Some searched their titles all the way back and found that their "titles are not clear": There are no documents of transfer of land from Six Nations to the Crown in the Ontario land registry. Developers are already doing business with the Confederacy, have been for over a year, LOTS of them. Think about how many developments are going on in the Haldimand Tract ... a huge number, and most of them are already doing business with the Confederacy, now through the HDI. However, the developers are under no obligation to tell you or me or the public about their business so we do not know how many, what they paid, what their agreement is, etc. The developers can take the HDI to Canadian court if they wish, now or later. I heard the developers have been informed by their lawyers that they will lose, though, because Six Nations claim is legitimate. The land belongs to Six Nations, not to Ontario, not to Canada, not to Cambridge, Kitchener etc.: The land belongs outright to Six Nations. They don't want to put us out of our homes, but they do want acknowledgment from our governments that the land is theirs: A say in development and a share of revenues from their land.

Well, that's a good one too! If you watched both parts of the movie, you heard one of the girls tell about being thrown off the bridge. The thing Canadians have to get through their thick heads is ... We have been travelling, building, etc. on land that is not ours. They have allowed the bridge to operate on their land for decades, but it was not convenient for them to do so at the time of Oka, so they closed it. Canadians have to get over thinking they are being 'inconvenienced'. We are not being inconvenienced: We are finally being told the truth about who owns the land rights.

Dropout rates are down to 50% and dropping fast, postsecondary rates of enrolment and success are up greatly. Half of the population in our colleges are mature students with families, both Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal. Having kids young is no deterrent to education. The population is young because the Elders died young as a result of abuse and trauma in the residential schools. They are rebuilding their population and will continue to do so. Your ignorant and stereotyped comments only show you know nothing of the topic, and have nothing intelligent to say, so why bother?

You are right about all of that. Traditional knowledge is something we have not paid enough attention to, and we can benefit greatly from that. In the Haldimand Tract, this issue is not mining or logging (though it is elsewhere), but development. The process the Haudenosaunee Confederacy has put in place involves reviewing all development proposals in comparison to their own population expansion and economic development needs, as well as environmental issues. They will approve, change or halt developments to be consistent with their plans. They also negotiate a share of revenues, or a flat rate for revenue sharing. Revenue sharing is a huge issue right across the country, as Indigenous Peoples get no share of the resources taken from their land. The government is not negotiating these revenue sharing agreements in good faith, just refusing to consult, or dragging things out and hindering them in any way they can.

Link please? I believe you are exaggerating. They wouldn't lay them off, just reassign them where necessary.

The land was surrendered to the management of the government on condition that they arrange sales and leases and put that money into Six Nations Trust fund. If a mortgage or lease was in default, that land reverted to Six Nations. Almost all went into default, and reverted to Six Nations ownership long ago. The surrender is irrelevant because it was voided by the government's noncompliance with the terms - failure to lease and sell the lots and collect the money for the benefit of Six Nations. Now, I don't know about you but if I contracted with a property management company and they failed to account for the money, I would be certainly be entitled to void the agreement!