Wild Bill

Ah, the end of the article tells the tale! "As of July 2009, the federal government has not committed any financial support for the CETI and the agreement between Ontario and Manitoba for the first phase of the CETI is not publicly available. No public steps have been taken concerning a Manitoba-Ontario power grid since June 2005." So ntohing'd been happening! Still, I see your point that at least some Manitoba politicians did indeed have some vision. Meanwhile, we've been suffering under Dalton McGuinty, who prefers to buy power from solar panels on rooftops at 80 cents per Hwh instead of completing the deal with Manitoba' Have some pity for us!

I think you might be just a bit off the mark. No one is saying that the Liberals are racist and only pick French leaders. It only seems so because so often even their English leaders have come from Quebec. Even this is not fair evidence of bias, since for decades now the bulk of Liberal support has come first from Quebec and then from Ontario and the rest of English Canada. It would have made little sense to try to pick a suitable leader from the western half of the country when they had so few members from which to choose! The Liberals were really an Eastern only party for decades and not all of the east either! Central Canada with Ontario and Quebec is more like it. This despite their perennial claims to be a national party, implying the Tories and then Reform/Alliance were not! The fact is that they have a long standing policy of alternating between French and English (or more properly, non-French) leaders. After Ignatieff it's the turn of someone from Quebec - as simple as that!

I can't say. Conawapa appears to just have been a generation project, not a delivery one. I'm an Ontarioan and I have no idea what potential there was to export that power to the States or to western provinces. All I know is that there isn't the distribution network necessary to get Manitoba power to Ontario manufacturing. You could have a great Manitoba generator and a hungry Ontario motor but with no extension cord between them you won't get very far! The question of course is, who would pay for those lines? If Ontario was hungry enough to buy and Manitoba anxious enough to sell something could have been worked out long ago. However, it wasn't then so it isn't there now!

I find it interesting that everyone in this thread so far has only thought about american cops crossing the border into Canada. Has no one considered that there are American crooks who come up here smuggling coke and guns, dakking back south of the border before our cops can nab them? That there is human smuggling going on from Canada into the US? That children are kidnapped and taken across the Peace Bridge from time to time, even if usually by a mother or father wanting to ignore a court custody order? If this is a 2-way agreement then a cop or a Mountie could just as easily cross south into the USA, especially if he was in pursuit of some felon or suspected felon. There are many border towns where right now a Canadian cop must stop on his side of the border and radio the Americans to take up the chase, losing valuable time. Surely this agreement would be a good thing?

Before Manitoba can sell power to Ontario we're gonna need some transmission lines! And Ontario's manufacturing base needs to recover a lot as well. I've seen articles suggesting that the recession has helped McGuinty as he keeps closing coal-fired plants, since if we were running at typical levels we would have a 20% SHORTFALL in electricity! Getting power from Manitoba should have happened 40 years ago but hey, who expects politicians to have any vision?

Urban polls, maybe. I'm not so sure about rural, southwestern and northern Ontario. I'd love to see a breakdown. I'm sure he'll do well in the GTA, especially since he's campaigning as if that's all that matters! However it turns out, I'll be very interested in the geographic breakdown. He may win, albeit with a minority but I'm betting he'll be a premier for big city folks ONLY! I don't expect he'll do that well in Caledonia...

Few would argue that there may be physical differences in the brains of people of different political persuasions. However, you seem to be implying that liberal is good and conservative is bad! This is purely a subjective opinion. If you were a conservative you would likely think the opposite. The truth is that both viewpoints have merit in certain contexts. To think that you are right and everyone else is wrong is simply illogical righteousness! Perhaps the physical arrangement of your brain not only makes you a liberal but blinds you to the possible validity of any other point of view.

Actually Jack, just because I think one guy is a goof doesn't automatically mean I must think the other guy is a genius! I think we are sliding into a hole and we don't have ANY leaders who know what to do about it! The difference is, I think Hudak will slow the slide a bit. McGuinty on the other hand couldn't find his own butt with a searchlight! The problem with politics is that it depends on the thinking of the majority of the people. As a group, we have more voters raised on Oprah and Dr. Phil than Richard Feynman, or even Penn and Teller! Sometimes people have to make mistakes before they can learn. We've made some grievous mistakes, from moving our jobs out of the country and thus ruining the buying power of our markets, to believing that governments actually know what they're doing and can fix anything. We're overdue for a reality check but it's not going to happen this election, or maybe even for 2 or 3 more. When it comes it's going to hurt, badly! However, it will likely smarten people up, putting us back on the right path.

No, that was MiddleClassCentrist's implication!

I have found that in general, people with high school or less education tend to be more practical. University graduates of the past couple of decades seem to be less so, MUCH less so! Also, older people grew up in a time when a university was truly for the advancement of knowledge and not just a certificate-mill towards getting a job. Perhaps that would account for the differences in their politics.

I realize that price relief was not your focus,Waldo. I just accepted your premises as given and extrapolated as regards how that would affect pricing. As for thinking of the kids, I've heard that before and always take it with a grain of salt. If you challenge some politician's premise and he tells you that we must wait for the next generation or more to see it proven I can't help but feel he has merely dodged the hook! If he turns out to be completely wrong it will be too late to change any outcome! What's more, he won't be around to face the consequences of being wrong or perhaps, even lying! No, I much prefer more immediate proofs, or at least detailed predictions that can be examined to see if they are likely. If the predictions are "over my head" then I make a character judgement of the source. That has also served me well over the years!

Ah, I believe I see your point. You're saying that even though the expansion of refinery capacity was all in the States it still doesn't matter as long as we can hold out for another 20 years, at which time the predicted increase in electric vehicles will drop the need for gasoline to a point within our refinery capacity. You're probably right! Still, I was hoping for some relief for myself before I die. Your scenario means that refining will still remain a convenient bottleneck to justify higher prices - a disconnect from too close a link between the cost of crude and the pump price. Also, by the time we hit 2030 many of those refineries will be a lot older and may be closed rather than rebuilt and forced to be brought up to the new standards. So those of us still running on gas will pay through the nose and those of us using electricity will likely be in the same boat, thanks to McGuinty. Gee, isn't it great to be Canadian? It always seems to mean fresh air, the cry of a loon on a lake and a big coffee table book by Pierre Burton that was subsidized by our taxes. It never means that we get a break on the roof over our head, the cost of our food or of the goods we must buy! Hell, even the keystones of our identity are expensive as hell! Have you priced Canadian Maple Syrup in the grocery store lately? Not meaning to thread drift but it seems that being Canadian really means just to pay more! Gasoline is one good example.

Interesting. In your first source the union is CUPE, made up of government workers. In the second it's a tradesman's union. I don't think that is a union the asbestos workers belong to either. Have you any data from the actual workers in the asbestos mines? If they were to suddenly lose their jobs, how many workers and their families would that be? I imagine that the mines are in outlying areas. What would that do to the viability of the towns where the workers live? In other words, your sources are from people who are not in the slightest affected by the thought of closing the asbestos mines! It's very easy for them to take the stand they've taken. Perhaps you have some polling information that will show us that the asbestos workers wouldn't mind losing their jobs, that it would not close down their towns or affect the voting patterns of the Quebec electorate as regards to the ruling party in Ottawa? These factors are pertinent. Frankly, I can't see anything pertinent in your cites. Perhaps you could enlighten us further.

Sadly Capricorn, many folks do! They lead with their hearts and not their heads, running on faith and not evidence or reason. They'll re-elect McGuinty and when the lights go out they still won't blame him! It will either be simple bad luck or all the fault of Mike Harris.

You obviously haven't got the faintest shred of a clue about Amiel's childhood and early life, do you? One would have to be completely and totally ignorant to have written the paragraph above! Once again, simply unbelievable!

Waldo, it seems to me that the private sector stopped building refineries about the same time as governments instituted new "green" laws that drove the cost of construction up far beyond costs in other countries. We used to have a large refinery in Oakville owned by PetroCanada that was closed in the 90's, since refurbishing and overhauling would have made it subject to the new regulations. Is it fair to ignore the political factor? If governments truly were in the oil market to protect "the little guy", which was the public justification for the Liberals to buy up all those private companies at prices top secret to this day to form PetroCan, shouldn't we expect them to build some refineries as a lever against private sector gouging? So many people today are so quick to vilify Conrad Black yet they have never even heard of Maurice Strong! Remember, please be civil! As I said before, I respect your knowledge and truly would appreciate your answer. Just not if I have to pay for it in "crankiness"! :angry:

Capricorn, you know me better than that! When I said I'd judge him on his own merits, who says I'd judge him kindly? You may recall that more than once here on this board I have stated that after he denied the town of Caledonia the protection of Law and applied it racially and unequally against protesters of either side, I would sooner vote for a pedophile than McGuinty! I believe a pedophile would likely have a better sense of ethics and responsibility. McGuinty makes Machiavelli look like Bob Rae!

Quite true, Shady! Of course, no other party wants to incur the wrath of Quebecois voters so they will bitch at Harper to lead the way. Notice how the Opposition has yet to make any definite statement of their own. They just use their proxy support groups instead. It's the usual hypocrisy of politics. The Tories would have done the same thing if they were in Opposition. Still, if either the Liberals or the NDP would declare themselves I would find it easier to hold some respect for them. I won't hold my breath, of course. Meanwhile, once again Quebec gets away with something that no other province would.

This might be appropriate, at least for an Asian comparison. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-07/teens-in-u-s-rank-25th-on-math-test-trail-in-science-reading.html "Fifteen-year-olds in the U.S. ranked 25th among peers from 34 countries on a math test and scored in the middle in science and reading, while China’s Shanghai topped the charts, raising concern that the U.S. isn’t prepared to succeed in the global economy. The Paris-based Organization for Economic Cooperation & Development, which represents 34 countries, today released the 2009 Program for International Student Assessment. For the first time, the test broke out the performance of China’s Shanghai region, which topped every country in all academic categories. The U.S. government considers the test one of the most comprehensive measures of international achievement." No doubt it's all Mike Harris' fault...

Wasn't Dalton the guy who wanted that plant in Oakville in the first place? I do remember much controversy about his decision to close the coal-fired plant in Nanticoke. The town didn't want to lose the jobs and suggested converting the plant to much cleaner natural gas. McGuinty was adamant that Nanticoke had to be closed, period. Oakville was supposed to provide the lost capacity. I saw some figures the other day that showed that the fact we have been in a recession and Ontario's manufacturing activity is far lower than in boom years has saved Dalton's butt as far as blackouts and brownouts. If we were running at normal consumption we would have had a 20 PER CENT shortfall! That's huge! Maybe Dalton is secretly working to keep Ontario in a recession! We keep hearing about more capacity from the nukes and from Niagara Falls but somehow it never seems to come on line, or at least not in the amounts he's been promising... Could you imagine the effect if suddenly half the car owners switched to electric??!! What does Dalton think we can do, buy batteries in bulk at Best Buy?

For once we agree, Topaz! I'll judge McGuinty by his own merits any day of the week! :angry:

Well eyeball, I agree with your position and laud you for having taken it! You prove there is one "leftie" who thinks a bit. I can't help but wonder if sometimes you feel a little lonely...

Yeah, I guess it does. Also, apparently the vote is only for local councils anyway that have no real power. It's a symbolic gesture but one thing's for sure, this ethical oil thing has rattled the Saudis! I've never understood how the western left can champion these extremists, preferring Saudi oil over ours when Saudis deny women basic rights, kill gays and generally ignore if not outright despise virtually all the values that the Left claims to hold dear! It tells me that most of the Left is made up of yammerheads who really have no idea what they believe in or the character of those they choose as their 'heroes'. Or their 'villains', for that matter. Who cares if some Islamist rulers executed some gays when George Bush wants to increase university tuition and destroy the planet with evil carbon just for the sheer, unadulterated joy of it! It's really quite mad, when you think about it.

To me, this is a bogus question. Who cares about the percentages of people who believe in any particular "sky fairy"? Hopefully, in this country people have the freedom to believe in any cockamamie thing they want! A better question would pertain to what specific accommodations are involved and in what context? For instance, if a person needs to take 5 minutes 5 times a day for a quick prayer, what's the problem? Smokers go for a quick smoke. Old guys like me need a pee break fairly frequently. However, if we are being asked to accommodate religious services of any kind in a public school, I would say NO! That's why it's called a public school! If you want to bring religion into a school, then have a religious school! Don't change the public one! It's interesting that we have only had these disputes come up in the last few years, despite having decades if not centuries of immigrants of various faiths and persuasions come into our society's schools and workforce. One cannot help but wonder if some folks have an agenda...

I'm still wondering, AW. If a woman's testimony in court is only worth half that of a man, does that mean the Saudis intend to give women only half a vote?