Wild Bill

Then why do any work at all? Why not just give everyone a government cheque and have it trickle all around to pay everyone? Are you suggesting that we don't need REAL jobs providing REAL goods and services? Are you suggesting manufacturers can ignore cheaper imports and give their workers raises even while their sales are drying up?

There is a protocol to these things. A Mayor is supposed to ask the Premier of his province. A Premier asks the Prime Minister. Going the other way makes the lower level functionary appear ineffective. Of course, in this case it would appear that they were!

That's not what has been said at all, Peter! The problem is that Quebec's wants are dramatically different from those of TROC. The NDP and the CPC both ironically have the same problem. How do they please Quebec and at the same time not tick off their support in TROC? In the case of the CPC, some would say it is frankly impossible and therefore not worth the effort! That of course is a moot point in itself. Some would disagree. I sense a bit of bitterness behind your words, Peter. Correct me if I am wrong but I get the impression you feel the CPC SHOULD consider Quebec relevant! While I would agree with you that would be the more desirable situation it would seem that the realities of today might be making that impossible. The CPC is starting from SO far back with Quebec that they would have to become almost an NDP clone themselves to increase their suppport in la belle province. This would be political suicide for them as far as keeping votes in TROC. Perhaps ignoring Quebec for the nonce while waiting to see if their desires change would be the most pragmatic course.

CC, the West is the only region that is making money! The rest of the country is TAKING money! Harper can't do much for Quebec, because they only care about support for artistes! He can't do much for Ontario, because McGuinty the genius is in the way. That leaves the Maritimes. Newfoundland is doing ok for itself with the new oil boom. The other provinces depending on the fish and so far Harper hasn't figured out a way to make them breed more and survive to maturity. So just what specifically would you have him do?

You get paid for this? Back in the late 60's when these ideas were just getting started we young folks of the time spent many weekends doing this for FREE! Times change and so do values, I guess...

Jack, I don't pretend to understand all the ramifications of changes to the law about unions but one thing I do know - we are going to keep losing jobs no matter what new laws might be enacted! That being said, can you name any instance in the last decade or so where having a union had saved jobs? Can you name any instance where having a union has attracted new employers to any town or region? Where having a union has CREATED jobs? Seems to me we're arguing politics on the deck of the Titanic...

August, you keep saying that somehow Harper not having support in Quebec will negatively influence Ontario voters. What do you base this on? Myself, I've lived here all my life. I don't know ANYBODY who gives a damn what Quebec thinks about Harper or much of anything else, for that matter! I truly don't understand where you got that impression. I understand WHY you keep saying it! As a Quebecois yourself it's a hard thing to accept that your province may no longer be as relevant on the Ottawa stage as before. Still, that doesn't mean you can pass off unsubstantiated opinion as fact! Especially to those of us who live here! How would you respect the opinions of those of us in TROC as to how Quebecers think about how Ottawa treats Saskatchewan? Oh sorry! I forgot! Quebecers would never even think about Saskatchewan!

Well, both Saddam wars, for a start. How long did the Kosovo thing last? Or Libya? True, America has enjoyed a huge technological advantage but then again, that is their protection, is it not? The Saddam wars were a good illustration of the folly of using vast numbers of cheaper units. Look at how many tanks Saddam's Elite Guard had in place, yet they were simply blown away like so much chaff by a smaller but far more technologically advanced American force. Somehow, equipping Canada with lots of obsolescent planes seems just about as dumb to me!

Yet a prolonged full scale modern war will likely never again happen,MB! Today's wars are "come as you are" affairs. They tend to be over in weeks, if not days. If you don't have superior forces, you lose, period and end of story. You don't get a couple of years to build up, like Canada did in 1939. It's "shock and awe" quickly followed by "oh crap!". It's just old style thinking, my friend!

I think that sort of argument is limited by the actual technological difference between the two weapons in question. How about vast numbers of Spitfires against F-35s?

So which of the other two parties do you think could command more than 50 % of the vote?

While he may not have gotten a clear majority of the popular vote, he STILL outpolled the "other guys"! There were even fewer people who preferred any other party. And that's a good thing! Our FPTP system protects regional interests. All the proportional representation schemes I have seen tend to destroy them. Allowing politicians to pick extra MPs from their OWN list goes even further in destroying democracy!

CC, you are dodging the man's question! Anybody with hair in their ears can say "I think this is no good!". Without a viable alternative, that can't get you anywhere. You end up with no choice at all. It takes far more brains and effort to come up with something better. If you want to admit that you really don't want us to have anything then just say so! If you want to just shoot down an option and leave it to SOMEONE ELSE to come up with something that meets your approval then you really aren't offering anything positive at all.

Apparently, the owner spent over a million dollars in repairs. He has only owned the mall for a few years. This sort of deterioration takes longer than that to become apparent. The mall was also duly inspected by the responsible authorities, at HIS request! Everyone said things were just fine! I wouldn't be too quick to hang the owner. We should wait for an inquiry, assuming McGuinty actually appoints one and lets it operate honestly.

No CC, SOME Canadians will be pissed, not all! If your views were the majority Harper would never have gotten his majority. If enough people change to your viewpoint by next election he will lose it. I really get irked when someone thinks his POV is somehow automatically the majority even if reality contradicts him! If the left wants to convert more folks to their POV for next time, it might be an idea to lose some of the arrogance. Frankly, THAT can piss possible converts off!

Well Peter, you might be right but somehow I don't think so. Your situation sounds like an exception rather than the rule. What's more, we are talking about entire populations here! A mathematician friend once told me that intelligence is a constant divided by the number of people in the group. So the bigger the group the less intelligence it will show. Surely all of Quebec and TROC would not show very much intelligence in a separation negotiation at all! As for the Reform Party, we will never know! At the time they died their support had grown very strong in the West and had numbered several million voters in Ontario. They had less in Quebec in those days than Harper has today! Those were different times, with different demographics. It was Harper's strength in Ontario that put him over the top into a majority. Could Manning have done the same if given a few more years? We will never know. Whatever, I think it safe to say that Joe Clark and what was left of the PCs at the time could never have done it!

You are likely quite correct, Cpl! During the first separation referendum Trudeau stood out from the pack of appeasers and told Quebecers point blank that if they choose to be out they were ALL the way out! No EI. No Old Age Pension. No Transfer Payments. No baby bonus, no pass ports, no common currency - no nothing! Quebec could expect no more from Ottawa than Ireland or Botswana! This is probably what turned the tide against separating. The BQ has always liked to pretend that a separation agreement would be painless and easy - that no Quebecer would be hurt! TROC would be obliged by common sense to make a "nice" deal. As if separation would not be emotional on both sides! Whoever heard of a divorce agreement worked out with no fury? Hopefully if there is yet another referendum another Trudeau will appear to make the situation plain. Any party in power at that time would be stupid in the extreme to not realize that if they don't appear to stand agressively for TROC's interests and not Quebec's they would be committing political suicide. After all, once separated Quebec would have no seats to offer any party at all!

I can't argue with a blind partisan, eyeball. You remind me a lot of my Orangeman grandfather...

I'm surprised that no one so far seems to have pointed out that outside of Elliot Lake itself, no one seemed to have noticed or made any decisions until after the weekend! One would think that the need for heavy equipment would have been perfectly obvious immediately after the collapse. Shouldn't it have been ordered in within MINUTES of the disaster? Or at least a couple of hours? This is the real issue here. Maybe the site was to dangerous for rescue workers, maybe it wasn't. Maybe whoever made the decision wasn't qualified. Whatever. Maybe someone should have made decisions much more quickly. If autopsies show that a victim or victims lived in the rubble for a couple of days before they died then heads indeed should roll!

Topaz, sometimes I seriously wonder if you live on a different planet! Harper is governing EXACTLY like the old time PC party of Mulroney's day! Precisely the opposite of what you claim! If anything, it would have been a Reform government that would have been far more transparent. One of its basic principles was for MPs to vote for their constituents and NOT just the way their Whip or the PM told them to! You just don't ever seem to fit the actual facts with your arguments. Instead, you go with what you like! You liked the old PC party so if Harper does something and you don't like it, then he must not be the same as the old PC party, EVEN WHEN HE DOES THE SAME THINGS! I'm sorry, but I just can't follow your reasoning at all, in any way. Since the parties merged I have seen virtually NOTHING of the old Reform/Alliance in the ACTIONs of the present CPC! I have seen ALL KINDS of things done exactly like Mulroney or even Clark would have done and DID do, on many an occasion! I suggest you open your eyes more often and look at the world as it really is and see people for what they actually DO!

Here again I think you are making an assumption, August.I agree with you that there are regional feelings among voters but I think they are strongest in Quebec and not nearly as strong in TROC. What's more, you seem to be saying that Harper's loss of support in Quebec somehow serves as a bad example to other regions, resulting in a loss of seats. August, I believe that the average guy in TROC doesn't give a damn if Quebec doesn't like Harper! Or if Quebec doesn't feel it has been given enough as a region! They view Quebec as not just a separate culture but a society that has rejected TROC in their heart anyway! Why on earth should someone outside of Quebec give a damn for a people who don't appear to care about HIM? You have to live and socialize "on the ground" in TROC to understand the popular sentiment. The more Quebec has shouted "We are different" over the years the more TROC has taken this to mean "We are not part of you!". That TROC voter would care very much about HIS region but he certainly doesn't care about if Quebec is happy! To be fair, he likely doesn't care about any other region in the country all that much either. In fact, since Quebec has worked so hard to be thought of as "special" instead of "one of the guys" it could be that Harper will actually get increased support if he is seen to be standing up to Quebec! Quebec has a reputation of always making demands and being given more than other provinces. Even simple things like road signs irk TROC Canadians. In Ontario, we have had bilingual signs on the 400 series highways for decades. Yet when any Ontarioan goes to Quebec he immediately sees that it is not reciprocated. Sure, there is a long, convoluted explanation about why Quebec has to do this to save its culture but the average Ontarioan doesn't buy it. He simply thinks that Quebec gets away with it because the party in power in Ottawa is trying to pander for their votes. Sorry if I sound cynical, August. I don't altogether approve of my own view either. I just think its more accurate than YOUR view of how the typical voter feels who lives outside of Quebec!

BH, I've teased our friend August about this before. He doesn't like to admit it but he does have the typical Quebecois "isolated" viewpoint, in that they often have as much idea about what people in TROC think as those people know about Quebec culture! Quebecers are used to having a great deal of influence on whichever party is ruling in Ottawa. I don't think they properly appreciate their new situation. That being said, I envy August for living in a province with great beer and people who truly know how to have fun and party! They make many Ontarioans look like incredible "tight-asses"! :P

I dunno August. His numbers were dismal in Quebec last election and so was the Liberal Party. Yet he pulled off a majority! I don't follow your reasoning that his numbers in Ontario and/or the Maritimes will automatically drop because so much of Quebec doesn't like him. This is an assumption on your part, perhaps based on previous experience. As someone who has lived in Ontario since he was very small I don't share it. I think Quebec may have overplayed its hand! It has always been much more socialistic than the rest of Canada. I could see the NDP staying strong in Quebec but making no gains in TROC. I have already posted on this topic in another thread. I think Harper is not doing this for himself. I doubt if he thinks he can win more support in Quebec without skewing more to the left and losing more in TROC. No, I think he genuinely wants the country to stay united and fears a rise in the fortunes of the separatistes, when the PQ takes on Charest's liberals next provincial election. Whatever, these are interesting times.

Punked, maybe I'm misunderstanding you but it sure sounds like you expect a leading edge aircraft to be perfect in all respects with all bugs worked out not just as soon as it is in production but before that, while the prototypes are being tested. More than that, you seem to expect that there should never be any need for such real world testing - that even the aircraft prototypes should be perfect as soon as the parts from the machinists' benches are first assembled into an airframe. Or have I indeed misunderstood you?

I guess you've not had a lot of business experience. First of all, competition will drive prices between different stores down. Second, if there was a monopoly agreement between all the grocery players (which is illegal and a golden opportunity for some MP to look like a hero by helping bust them) then people would just continue cross border shopping! The domestic stores would have no choice but to pass along the savings. Here's a pertinent link: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/02/21/f-cross-border-shopping-numbers.html "$4,924,000,000 — Amount Canadians spent in the U.S., third quarter of 2011 (up 8.5 per cent from the third quarter 2010) $72 — Average spending per person per same-day trip by Canadian visitors to the U.S., 2009" That's just about 5 BILLION DOLLARS! What's more, StatsCan can only work with declared numbers. Care to guess how much more product is never declared?