Peter F

so zealous in condemnations of facism and nazism? Really? and my posts that lead you to that conclusion are? and I don't shrug 'carelessly'. I've read Mein Kampf too. That doesn't make me a jewkillingNazi....or maybe it does?

Sex? Hell, they just got to walk down the street holding hands.

See? Its easy-peasy. and ya...sellin like hotcakes according to this Oh lookie! Not a reference to Ice-cream cones!

I am required to show what you didn't? You googled "Mein kampf arabic" and - surprise surprise - got a bunch of images in arabic re Mein Kampf. I googled "Mein kampf english" and surprise surprise got a bunch of images in english re mein kampf. If you can show evidence of mein kampf being a best-seller in palestine - turkey etc, then do so.

Mein Kampf is a bestseller everywhere - not just arabs

Who's enslaved in Quebec again? It doesn't because those are not my views.

Hello? I live in Canada, not the USofA circa 1852. Actually they can. And if they couldn't I wouldnt say that was worth killing 600,000 people over. Well? Start the killing then!

I think army guy is trying to link to this: Terry Glavin blog

Good. No need then for 600,000 dead and whole regions to be devastated.

Is the example for Quebec something to avoid or emulate?

Well what can be said? I disagree and think things are just fine the way it is. Ok. replace "utter areshole" with vicious terrorist. The point remains the same. explains what? That Canadians can be arsehole's? This is news?

No. You said thier citizenship should be revoked because of what they did and have done or maybe are doing as Canadian citizens. Citizenship can be revoked by the state if you gained it through decietful means and if the truth had have been known then citizenship would never have been granted. I am a Canadian Citizen now. I got that citizenship through legitimate means. I am also slowly turning into a big detriment to Canada and Canadians ... and hell just the world in general. And when I finish the transformation and have become a complete and utter arsehole, that Canadian citizenship will still be legitimate. Some-ones going to have to show that the Khadr's lied to citizenship and immigration in order to get citizenship. Once granted then Canadian they are and shall be no matter what kind of crimes they commit afterwards.

and I've been living off the government teat since the day I was born. So what?

Certainly, that is true. But O.Khadr did not commit a 'war crime'. What is it the Americans call him? Unprivliged combatant' or some such. War crimes can only be committed by 'privleged' combatants. ie: those giving orders or those recieving and carrying out orders as part of the armed forces or auxiliaries , acting under the authority of a state. Such people cannot get Canadian Citizenship, except through lies and other fraudulent means. Once that is revealed then Canadian citizenship is revoked since, if the truth had have been known, citizenship would have never been granted. Since Omar Khadr was not acting as a member of the Armed Forces of a state (even in the remotest degree) he could not commit a war-crime. Murder he can commit. Or Conspiracy. Or Attempted murder. Even multiple counts of. And he could have been shot on the spot at Khost- and in fact, was. But, like me, Omar Khadr was born in this country and his parents were Canadian Citizens at the time of his birth. Now perhaps, his parents lied and defrauded the government in order to get Citizenship. In which case thier citizenship can be legitimatly revoked. In which case I have no Idea what happens to thier childrens Canadian citizenship. But before that can happen it must be shown that they bullshitted the folks at citizenship and immigration But if the parents didn't lie-cheat-and-steal back in, what? 1985 or something, to be granted Canadian Citizenship, then there is no revoking it no matter what kind of despicable persons they may become afterwards. And if they became arseholes afterwards, then Omar Khadrs citizenship stands - just like Paul Bernardo's - and just like mine.

It takes more than somebody saying something to toss Canadian citizenship. They were Canadian citizens. The government did its duty to its citizens by evacuating them. Canadian citizen-ship doesn't come and go. What sort of rules would you like put in place? Shall Canadian Consuls conduct little tribunals before giving aid to those with Canadian citizenship to determine wether the supplicant is 'truly' a Canadian? What has been the claimants 'contribution' to Canada? Or, perhaps, as you suggest, such inquiries should be left to "those that are contributing to this country" . Shall we draw up a list of such citizens? Had them posted at gangways to dispute folks with Canadian citizenship? "Your passport means nothing. Who scored the winning goal in the final game of the 2005 Stanley cup? Thats right! Ruslan Fedotenko. you're in." We Canadians already get to decide these things and these things are decided through the tried and true methods of good ol' politics of wich the exchange we are having is part. And these things are not done on a ad hoc basis - or shouldn't be. As I would had I have been in thier boots. There is nothing wrong here. The kid needs medical attention he gets medical attention. We cannot refuse such things just because we despise his parents...or even him for that matter. He's a Canadian citizen - He gets the candy. I can understand that many folks want to see them punished - somehow, somewhen. But if we can't find them guilty of anything in a court of law why should we demand our government ignore due process and punish them anyways. Thats what this is all about. In a nation with Security Certificates and Terrorism laws We can't even charge them with anything. No charges- No trials - No verdicts - No punishment. Simple as that. And thats the way it should be. Thus politics. Perhaps, with enough lobbying, a future government will enact such laws. I certainly hope not. Sure there needs to be a line. I think there is already. Murder is illegal. No exception for Murdering an American. And no exception for doing so in another land. No exceptions for the murderers political/moral/religious beliefs. No exceptions for the organization the murderer belongs to. Conspiracy to kill others is illegal too. So is Attempted murder. If all we hear about widdle Omar is true then we will have charges- trial - verdict. There is no need for working ourselves into a knot about his or his Mom's citizenship. How could it possibly be any other way and still claim we defend our values?

Jerry's right. Assuming the Federal Courts order survives the SC I cannot see how the nations Foriegn Minister is being shackled to any significant degree. The government wont be Locked and Loaded when they ask for OK's repatriation. All they will be required to do is say "please send Mr Khadr to Canada". Thats it. Nothing more. At wich point the Americans could very well pull the rug out and say "sure. He'll be landing in Toronto tomorrow", sending this government into a dither. Or, they can give this government a break and say "Nope."

The point is Moot... Well lets see...Some Canadian citizens shouldn't get healthcare in Canada if they spend alot of time out of the country. Wich ones shouldn't is dependant upon their opinions and beliefs. specifically whether those opinions and beliefs bug your butt or not. I think I got right.

This is funny. I live here and have collected welfare and healthcare, and secretly I hate your guts. Yet, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that! Except for immigrants - then its very wrong.

Means absolutely nothing to me. It seems entirely pointless to me. You are suggesting we revoke thier citizenship for being unliked by you. Their citizenship is, or at least should be, as inviolable as mine. Once granted the state should not be using the permanent threat of removing it whenever the hell they feel like. There is no need for the state to be lording it over immigrants. Who knows what unscrupulous government functionaries will be able to do with the weapon of 'citizenship'. Once they got it they keep it. And why is that a big deal?

So effing what? No kidding?

Wrong. I want him back. And I'm 100% Canadian. Grapple with that!

I don't think so. If they are granted Canadian citizenship then Canadian citizens they are. They get to be charged in Canadian courts for thier crimes - just like every other Canadian citizen - and if found guilty they get to be incarcerated in Canadian prisons - just like every other Canadian citizen. and until imprisonment, they get to travel where-ever they want for whatever reasons please them - just like every other Canadian citizen. Removing thier citizenship means absolutely nothing.

Just to bring you up to speed on not-so-recent events since October 28 2008: see Decision of Federal court in case of Khadr vs the PM CSIS etc of April 23 2009 and Decision of Federal Court of Appeal re Federal Courts decision linked above of August 14 2009

Major Frakt, USAF, oral argument before the military commission on Defense motion to dismiss all charges against Mohammad Jawad. 19 June 2008. From ACLU snip...not deserving of a snip, but rules are rules (for the written motion see US Military Commissions - jawad 6/17/6008 – Defense Motion to Dismiss Based on Torture of Detainee, Motion Number - D 008) Motion denied.

I suppose I can fit the bill as one of those who defend him - but I do not defend his actions. OK's actions were his actions; no defense required. He did whatever he did and didn't do whatever he didn't do. So the question is what did OK do? Who knows? I don't know and neither does anyone else....well, except the US government I guess, since they say they have the evidence to support their charges...and OK himself. It is my view that we must await the actual trial to reasonably determine these things. Nevertheless, terrorist or not, I would indeed be fine with his return to Canada. Either to incarceration as a terrorist (like the terrorist Hicks being allowed to return to confinement in Australia) or to freedom as not-a-terrorist. Of course which condition will be determined by an American Military Commission. Or possibly the third condition is the USofA releases him to Canada upon request. In which case I'm ok with that too. Are you suggesting that Papa Khadr's children should be refused medical treatment because of what Papa khadr did? Supposedly did, I might add? Who gives a shit what Papa Khadr did or didn't do? Everybody gets medical treatement required whithout regard to what their parents have done. On my dime too! I have absolutely no problem with that. And surprise surprise it applies in the good ol' USofA too!. Its called compassion and is a virtuous thing. Tolerance/intolerance is neither here nor there.