Moonlight Graham

That's pretty neat Shaw, thanks for the link!

As you say, the problem exists far beyond the lack of food. It is development of so many things that is needed. Political (liberal democracy? or democracy more compatible with their own cultures?), government/institutional (can't do much without a capable bureaucracy), economic (duh), health, education etc. Having studied international development and Africa in some detail, to me the greatest thing individuals and governments in the West can do to help sub-Saharan Africa is to end our exploitation (especially economic) of these countries, and to put them on at least an even playing field with OECD countries in terms of trade. We exploit our power over them by forcing them to agree to trade terms which are greatly to our favour and little if not detrimental to theirs. It's the same across virtually all developing countries. We also need to end the vast subsidies such as those we give to our agricultural industry that allows us to sell these goods much cheaper than those in developing countries, thus destroying their competitive advantage in agriculture...and leading many countries such as those in Latin America to turn to growing drug crops just to make a living because it remains one of their few areas of competitive advantage. Our governments also put garbage preconditions on foreign aid and debt-relief, forcing economic and political reforms in the donors interests, and stipulating that money used for foreign aid must be spend on products/companies from the donor countries (we have to make a profit on all this "aid", right?). Citizens in the West need to wake up and pressure their governments to stop this B.S. We don't have to pay to feed these people, we just have to give these people a fighting chance to attain the ability to feed themselves.

Maybe, but i get bonus points for starting a thread on my apathy! Maybe it's not all apathy. Maybe, like people have said, it's that people have heard this same old song again and again. Some truth to this, but i would argue against that in this particular case since a famine by definition means the scale of hunger and death is much greater than the usual constant trickle of deaths in Africa. I think much of it is indeed apathy because this famine doesn't affect us in the West. They live or they die, it hardly changes anything in our lives. A major reason why hardly any of us have heard much about "Africa's World War", the Second Congo War in the DRC, which has killed more people than any other conflict since WWII, over 6 million people. How many people have even heard of this war, let alone the scale of its destruction? How many even give a shit? I also think it has to do with the fact that many of us just don't understand this region properly. We know much about North American politics, European politics, even some about Latin America and Asia, but Africa is not in the news much or most other media comparatively so its culture, societies, and politics are mysterious to us so we have little to authoritatively say about it.

3 replies in this thread, 145 replies in the Oslo thread. Smell the apathy!

Finally read up on the Cut, Cut and Balance Act and the BBA amendment. A bit of a joke i'd say, spending cuts...yet zero cuts in defense spending? It looks like a means for Republicans to hammer through an amendment making it much harder to raise taxes. A super-majority? Ya like that will ever fly. The debt problem has nothing to do with taxes or spending by themselves, but simply spending more than tax revenues bring in. Any debt-reduction will obviously need cuts in spending AND increases in taxes to be most effective. Does it take a rocket scientist to figure this out? Why does this have to go on ideological lines? Just fix the problem logically.

Jews only make up 1% of the Canadian population. Support would be for their campaign money and powerful lobbying, not so much ballot numbers.

Jobs such as what?

Thoughts? Interesting article here that argues the famine is a man-made crisis, not just an "environmental emergency", that could have been avoided:

The jobs Canadians are losing to developing countries are mostly low-wage jobs with no education needed. It takes minimal training to work on an assembly line or answer phones at a call center. OECD countries have the edge in technology, money, and education. With R&D, and we have the educated people to do it and rich people to fund it. I see no end in sight with our edge in smart, educated people to run businesses and create new products and put up the money to invest in these businesses/products. OECD countries will provide the brains, developing countries will continually provide the "brawn" in manufacturing as well as other crappy jobs Canadians would rather not do compared to other more creative and satisfying jobs. Canada has entered a post-industrial, information economy.

I never said all were that way. My point is there are many kinds of people on social assistance, ya there are some that are lazy and who try to beat the system or who spend their cheques in wasteful ways, but I would call that an argument for possible reform and not an argument against social assistance. In Alberta they had a call-in number for people to report their neighbours etc. who were wasting their welfare money on ridiculous things or defrauding the system. It was very popular lol. Go sexually molest your kid to the point where they run away and tell me how they turn out. I bet I volunteered at a food bank for 2 years and worked in a community agency that had a food bank for a year. I bet you haven`t been to Barbados.

`The poor are lazy` is a garbage stereotype. Yes there are some lazy poor people (as there are in Barbados too). There are also poor people in Canada who are physically or mentally disabled, many of them elderly. Or poor people who were sexually or physically abused as kids, ran away from home, dropped out of school, lived on the streets for a while or went through foster homes without much of a hope in hell...and certainly wouldn`t in a country without those evil social programs. If anyone here thinks the majority of people who are on social assistance (aka welfare) are lazy, go to your local food bank and listen to the stories of those people and it will have you eating crow real quick.

I don`t know about Canada specifically, but generally go look at the correlation between income and infant mortality within countries, then look at the same between different countries. The correlation is there, and there`s a lot of peer-edited scholarly research on it. Stats don`t lie. Here you go: link Here`s one abstract: and another:

There`s a huge difference between Marxism and social democracy. Based on what research and statistics exactly. Go look at the neoliberal policies of Reagan in the 80`s and then go look at the increases in homelessness and the gap between rich and poor in the same period, which many scholars attribute in part to his policies. You may want to also study the Great Depression.

Ahaha. Different outcomes than the article the OP is refering to, which is likely this one: http://www.thespec.com/opinion/columns/article/565049--latest-oecd-figures-confirm-canada-as-a-public-health-laggard Some different stats being looked at, but some seem similar or the same. Oh who, oh who shall we believe?

interesting topic, but not a very unbiased source. The article sucked.

There are a vast number of possible or almost certain consequences to consider if Canada were to leave the UN, or if te UN was disbanded altogether. I think most if not all of the people here calling for Canada to leave the UN and/or have the UN entirely dismantled have seriously considered and researched what would occur if this were to happen.

Born in the USA, Hungry Heart, Born to Run, Glory Days, Dancing in the Dark, I'm on Fire, Streets of Philadelphia, Secret Garden, that's just off the top of my head. He's had a bunch of hits.

Few things annoy me like the declining population = extinction argument. I'm pretty sure any species that has been on this planet for the last tens of thousands years has declined in numbers at some point, then increased, then declined again, then...

Thanks for that explanation. Do you still have the full article you can send me? Such a fascinating subject!

From the article quoted in the OP: I don't quite understand what this paragraph is saying, ie: Why? Did the natives plant trees? The euros? And for what reason?

Completely out of line Shady. Never judge a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes...or at least know the whole story.

I don't use any of the above either, except for the occassional caffeinated cola soft drink (don't drink coffee, tastes gross). However, despite your claim, they are not equal in their toxicity/health benefits. Doctors claim that drinking coffee every morning has basically no negative impact on life expectancy for the average person. (saw this on 'Doctor Oz' lol). Cannabis is far less harmful than alcohol. You can't OD on marijuana. Just looking at the negative health consequences, alcohol should be illegal and marijuana legal.

Looking at "breeding" pragmatically i see two opposing arguments. One can disagree with you and say more gay people or same-sex couples would be better because it would slow global population growth (as many argue the earth is already overpopulated, which i would also argue). On the other hand, more same-sex couples in a country like Canada is a negative in that it's argued we need more young people to replace & support the aging babyboomers.

Am I the only one who thinks 'Hey Jude' is probably the most overrated song ever on the radio? It's so ordinary, i love the Beatles but man that song does nothing for me, except maybe when the "na-na-na-na" comes in.

How can you not like the songs Back in Black or Hells Bells? Very similar to the great ones you mentioned. But ya, Van Halen before and after David Lee Roth was a big change, very different singers.