weaponeer

I am not sure where I fit in, I believe in a strong military, a very tough criminal justice system, abolish welfare for healthy able bodied people & close ties with the USA. However I am not against abortion, don't encourage it, believe in stem cell research, good education, top notch medical care, gay marriage really doesn't bother me and we need to fix the enviornment. I have no idea where I fit in te spectrum....

The truth is more problematic, then a "coverup". Not sure what you are meaning? I am saying that the conflict is real. That it is not a coverup derived by spin doctors for our consumption. Like any issue, you have to read some articles that go a ways back. Goose Bay, Trenton, JTF2. And how Hillier says OConner is suggesting Civilian Defence For Political Reasons. Their is alot of truth in the statement. Likewise, Hillier is being labelled as campaigning for his next job. I am not fond Hillier. But what you are labelling Hillier being biased about, is more about Hilliers attitude then his actual bias. Not that he doesn't have one. But at the end of the day, he used his typical colourful style to speak about cut backs in the 90s. Somethat that other government departments have pointed out in their fields during this same period, without any flare. Hillier has a vision of the military and where he wants it to be. To heck with anyone whom disagrees with him. O'Conner included. Hillier came to see us doing our pre-deployment training. He spoke to everyone, then took us officers aside and had some words. There is not doubt in my mind he is the best General I have ever met in 18 years of service. He is a soldier, not a politician, that makes peole nervous. Canadians in the know are more used to seeing a Baril, or De Chastiline as the CDS, a quiet "lap-dog". Hillier is a combat leader, more in line with the CDS generals that ran the military in the 1960's & '70's, fromer WW2 officers. You cannot believe everything you read in the press. The media is mostly speculation, not fact. Nobody here, or in the media is present at high level defence meetings, so it is speculation. O'Conner & Hillier are BOTH combat officers, from the Canadian Armoured Corps. I have met both of these men, had dinner with O'Conner. I have full faith in their leadership. I would follow Hillier to hell & back. You do not see military members complaining about them... As for the so called rift, media speculation. There is not doubt they have differences, they're human remember. Our defence policy has always been Canada First, this is nothing new. You start defending Canada on the beaches of Europe and the Middle East, ot the beaches of Nova Scotia........ What do we have to be defended from? Not that you're post was not fascinating, as it was, and I will definitely do some research, but it is going to take a lot of convincing to revise my opion of Hillier. But there is room, and I am still digesting his vision of what he wants the military to be. There was a time that I believed in that vision, or one similar, however, since then, I have become more informed as to the ways and whys of creating wars and military expansionism. Canada is not a war like nation, it has gone and done what it perceived to be it's duty, when asked and when needed. The military of today, appears to want Canada to be militaristic in nature. That seems more like ego gratification to me, rather than rational thinking responsible citizens of the world. I find it very problematic Catchme, There is nobody in Canada or the Canadian Forces that wants us to be militaristic. Your 1000% right, we are not a warlike people, I could not agree more. However, that does not mean that other folks in this world feel the same way. We live in a very dangerous world, we always have, what you see on TV today is nothing new. I don't want to be left to the mercy of the world. We as Canadians have too much to loose. All General Hillier, and the rest of us in the military are saying is lets DO IT RIGHT!!! If you, the gov't, are going to send us to Afghanistan, DO IT RIGHT. We need the equip to do it right. Our generals know what needs to be done, lets do it. We need to defend our country, our territory our interests. We need an army, airforce and navy that can conduct COMBAT to defend our country if every neccesary, that does not mean we WANT to use COMBAT. We are in a war in Afghanistan, something you and millions of other Canadians have never seen our nation do in your life time. I understand it bothers people, if it did not, that would concern me. Canadians have a tradition of NOT taking defence matters seriously, resulting on many occassions in Canadian's being caugh in a very bad situation. If peolpe don't like the war, blame the politicians, they sent us there, not me, armyguy or Hillier. We are simpley doing our job. If a few generals had spoken up in years past, we may have avoided disasters like Flanders Fields, Passchandaele, Hong Kong and Dieppe. Hillier is doing his job very well, Canadians are just not used to seeing this kind of General. The officers who served in the first Gulf War, Bosnia, Kosovo are all becoming the senior officers who run todays military. They have real world experience, not the "office" experience of the generation they are replacing.

Hey, don't lump all us left-wingers in with baylee. I fully support our troops. I prob should not use the terms left & right wing. They really don't work well, myself I could be considered either, depending on what issue you question me on.... I will make every effort not to do it again.....

It is your fault, you a spoutiong of garbage you don't know anything about. Here's a suggestion, "I found this article, can any of you military people shed light on this for me. Why do civilians get shot??". Ask questions, you may learn something. You rant about things you know nothing about......

The truth is more problematic, then a "coverup". Not sure what you are meaning? I am saying that the conflict is real. That it is not a coverup derived by spin doctors for our consumption. Like any issue, you have to read some articles that go a ways back. Goose Bay, Trenton, JTF2. And how Hillier says OConner is suggesting Civilian Defence For Political Reasons. Their is alot of truth in the statement. Likewise, Hillier is being labelled as campaigning for his next job. I am not fond Hillier. But what you are labelling Hillier being biased about, is more about Hilliers attitude then his actual bias. Not that he doesn't have one. But at the end of the day, he used his typical colourful style to speak about cut backs in the 90s. Somethat that other government departments have pointed out in their fields during this same period, without any flare. Hillier has a vision of the military and where he wants it to be. To heck with anyone whom disagrees with him. O'Conner included. Hillier came to see us doing our pre-deployment training. He spoke to everyone, then took us officers aside and had some words. There is not doubt in my mind he is the best General I have ever met in 18 years of service. He is a soldier, not a politician, that makes peole nervous. Canadians in the know are more used to seeing a Baril, or De Chastiline as the CDS, a quiet "lap-dog". Hillier is a combat leader, more in line with the CDS generals that ran the military in the 1960's & '70's, fromer WW2 officers. You cannot believe everything you read in the press. The media is mostly speculation, not fact. Nobody here, or in the media is present at high level defence meetings, so it is speculation. O'Conner & Hillier are BOTH combat officers, from the Canadian Armoured Corps. I have met both of these men, had dinner with O'Conner. I have full faith in their leadership. I would follow Hillier to hell & back. You do not see military members complaining about them... As for the so called rift, media speculation. There is not doubt they have differences, they're human remember. Our defence policy has always been Canada First, this is nothing new. You start defending Canada on the beaches of Europe and the Middle East, ot the beaches of Nova Scotia........

Ya right, he is supposed to let politicians stick up for the military. That's how they got so run down in the first place. Fascistic impulses aside, folks, do you really not get why the military should stay out of government? What do you think? Should fire chiefs be allowed to publickly say they have a funding crisis? How about cops? Water supply technicians? Chief Medical Officers? Shouldn't they all be slient and let the politicians take care of us>? Apparently they do not get it figleaf, nor do they get why there are rules against military partisanship commentary and actions. There is a difference between saying there are funding crisis, which many before Hillier did say, than chastizing a former government in order to make the current government appear better. Hillier ignored the fact that it was the Liberals and Martin who stated the resupplying of the military, and placed all the gratuity for this, upon the CPC, when the military has NOT even yet received what has been ordered. Not only was he breaking the rules he was being disengenuous. Then his fullout Gord is wonderful took it well over the top. One does not hear Chief Medical Officers, fire chiefs, or the RCMP saying such things. Yes, they say there are monies needed, and they say they got money they do not prostrate themselves to the government, or officials, who did so, nor do they berate those who didn't in a partisan way. Again, those that think this is okay are extremely partisan. AGAIN, had he given the fiberals praise, we would not be hearing from you. If he said what you WANT to hear, you would not care...... My your partisanship is showing, which is why I suppose you are ok with Hillier being a poor role model and breaking military rules. But you are correct, you would not be hearing from me, had Hillier also praised the Liberals, as then he would NOT have being partisan, and he would've been giving credit where credit was due. It is NOT about what I want to hear, it is about what is fact, and what is breaking military rules. Had Hillier come out and praised only the LIberals and trashed another party, I would have been saying the same thing. No, it is about what YOU want to hear. I have read all your post, you don't like military people, and you don't want to hear the opinions of us, because you don't seem to think we should have one. No, we should not go on TV in uniform and campaign for on party or another, no we should not post party signs on our bases, but the CDS is responsible to defend the military, he is the leader of the military. The Libs DO NOT deserve credit for anything towards the military. They bought LAV3 vehicles because they were CHEAP and made in Canada. The fact it turned out to be an OK vehicle was an accident. As it turns out they did not buy enough to outfit each regt properly anyway. THIS IS EXACALLY what I have been trying to get across in other posts on this & other threads about the military and it's relationship with Liberals. Catchme's condesending attutude is the same as I have seen and experienced from many Libs. We in the military are beneth her/them, and have no right to an opinion unless it is the same as hers/there's.

Hillier is a great role model. If my kid was in the military I would be thanking my stars he had someone like that for a boss. Perhaps you wouldn't be, perhaps you may be criticizing him for wrongful war mongering policies and making the situation in the world worse and needlessly endangering canadian military lives. And perhaps endangering your kid's life needlessly. Good thing you'r just arm chairing your support though, and your "kid" is not actually in the military. Because he was and is wrong. On all accounts. Please read: http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index....16entry188216 My faith is in the people on the ground in Afghanistan military and civilian. I have no faith in "experts" that judge from a distance. You can link articles from these "experts" form here to high hell, I have no faith in defeatists. Weak moraled, weak minded people who have no idea what there are talking about. These people are related to the the same folks who said we could not win WW2, we could not defeat communism. Hard work and sacrafice, that's what will win this.....

Ya right, he is supposed to let politicians stick up for the military. That's how they got so run down in the first place. Fascistic impulses aside, folks, do you really not get why the military should stay out of government? What do you think? Should fire chiefs be allowed to publickly say they have a funding crisis? How about cops? Water supply technicians? Chief Medical Officers? Shouldn't they all be slient and let the politicians take care of us>? Apparently they do not get it figleaf, nor do they get why there are rules against military partisanship commentary and actions. There is a difference between saying there are funding crisis, which many before Hillier did say, than chastizing a former government in order to make the current government appear better. Hillier ignored the fact that it was the Liberals and Martin who stated the resupplying of the military, and placed all the gratuity for this, upon the CPC, when the military has NOT even yet received what has been ordered. Not only was he breaking the rules he was being disengenuous. Then his fullout Gord is wonderful took it well over the top. One does not hear Chief Medical Officers, fire chiefs, or the RCMP saying such things. Yes, they say there are monies needed, and they say they got money they do not prostrate themselves to the government, or officials, who did so, nor do they berate those who didn't in a partisan way. Again, those that think this is okay are extremely partisan. AGAIN, had he given the fiberals praise, we would not be hearing from you. If he said what you WANT to hear, you would not care......

Here's a solution, lets ban water...

OK,thats terrible. But we and especially the Americans are supposed to be the good guys, Not doing what the bad guys do "Again, it is really easy to hide in mom & dads basement and critic soldiers on the other side of the world.." There is that inteligent behaviour showing itself again Well I have been in the real world and faced the working end of an AK47. You have done nothing but bash Canadian soldiers since you have been here, you sound like a nazi idiot in 1938 trying to stir anger towards Jews. You have never been to Afghanistan, and have NO idea what your talking about. Another no nothing know it all. How about asking questions before you judge. There are plenty of CF folks on here, why don't you ask questions, try and LEARN something before you spout off like an Assclown. There are many issues on here I am not up to speed on, that one reason I am here, TO LEARN something new, not bash people I know nothing about. I read, ask questions. You could have asked one of us, "what's it like there, why do they shoot at civilians, how can that happen"??? Would be glad to fill you in. Its war, WAR SUCKS, get over it....

Never thought I'd agree with baylee, treating animals like that for kicks is cruel. Is it any more cruel that killing babies in abortion clinics.........

Sorry, no name calling:) Going to bed, kinda hurting from today, good night all......

I found this copy of a speech on another website that the Australian PM gave. Not sure when he gave it, but I certainly agree. PM Howard; Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks. A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to Australia and her Queen at a special meeting with Prime Minister John Howard, he and his Ministers made it clear that extremists would face a crackdown. Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard, hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if they did not accept that Australia was a secular state, and its laws were made by parliament. "If those are not your values, if you want a country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is not for you", he said on national television. "I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing people in Australia: one the Australian law and another the Islamic law, that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the opportunity to go to another country, which practices it, perhaps, then, that's a better option", Costello said. Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave, he said those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to the other country. Education Minister Brendan Nelsonlater told reporters that Muslims who did not want to accept local values should "clear off. Basically people who don't want to be Australians, and who don't want to live by Australian values and understand them, well then, they can basically clear off", he said. Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques Quote: "IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians." "However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the 'politically correct' crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Australia." "However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand." "This idea of Australia being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle." "This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom" "We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, Learn the language!" "Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture." "We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us." "If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like " A Fair Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. By all means, keep your culture, but do not force it on others. "This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'." "If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted."

CB, sorry, did not realize he/she/it was a world traveller.... I will sit in the corner for two minutes, and feel shame.....

Sounds like the CIA is earning it's pay, great job......

Oh yawn at you CB You said elsewhere I have been called... "nut, troll, idiot, and dense." You have lied about what I supposedly said. All against the rules. Like I said,its amazing how you want to change the subject and go on an attack against someone simply relaying a news event. Why dont you instead say how you feel about all the American soldiers who are being charged with murder against the civillians,plus other horrible crimes. Why dont you say how you feel about how many times Canadian soldiers have"MISTAKELY" blown away innocent civillians. Try sticking to the topic for once How I feel about the Canadians, freekin great, they are doing a great job under stressful conditions. Can't wait to join them in Apr. Why don't YOU say anything about the hundreds of civilians the talibs have blown away with suicide bombs, vehicle bombs etc... Why don't you mention the women hung for wearing make up, or looking at a man. Again, it is really easy to hide in mom & dads basement and critic soldiers on the other side of the world....

O'Connor should get credit, good on Rick. I think you just have a problem with a military man having an opinion, and a mind of his own. I am sure if he was saying great things about the libs we would not be hearing from you. He is not saying what you WANT to hear, so he's bad. A real soldier leading the military, there's a first for recent history. we ahve not had a CDS this good since the last WW2 officer retired in the '70's. Libs bought lav3's because they were made in London On, not because they care about the military..... Rick Hillier, most powerful Newfie on earth.....

I hope it's all uphill. Make us middle age guys proud. Not up hill, but -30 wind chill. I played hockey this afternoon, for the old timers:)...... Off to Norway Saturday for more training....

baylee could be right folks. this morning on my pre-deployment training, after the 13km ruck march in -30 windchill, thank you global warming, we started our murder civilians training. We start slow, first how to take out small kids and old people. 50 cal sniper rifle works best, however if you get in close with a bayonet it's more rewarding. Next we are going to learn how to kill pregnat women, 2 for one you can't pass that up:). After that we will be learning how to cut off fingers & ears for our collections, not to mention they make an excellent necklace. Then we will move on to taking out a innocent civilian village. You go in at night when all the kiddies are asleep, way more fun. First taget is always to schools, then of course the hospital, fun fun!! If we are really in a "goofy" mood, we call in an airstike at recess, catch the little ones outside with napalm. You will all never know of course, because we are highly trained to cover these things up. baylee will show us the way....

So there are many possibilities here. If this person was mentally ill, how were the soldiers supposed to know that?? Perhaps the tailbs put this guy into a situation knowing he would be shot, therby creating a media storm. Who know's, that's why there is investigations. I am currently doing pre-deployment training, based on what I have read of the incident on the news, it was a legal shoot. People have to keep in mind, if you where not there, you did not see what happened, you are outta the loop. The talibs are not stupid, they know how to play to the media. They attack our troops with bombs & guns, they attack the people back here in Canada with the media. Demoralizing the homefront is tried and tested tactic, as proved by some posters here. Anyhow, I have a 13km ruck march to do today, you all have a great day....

PN, You get turned down for a mortgage of something???

How about this. Instead of giving $$ to parents each month, why not use that money to help people start Daycare businesses in their towns/cities. Lack of daycare spaces sounds like a great business opportunity for someone.... Just a thought....

We have spent the last 6 years in this country bashing Bush endlessly. He does not mention Canada and we are outraged, come on!!! All we do is insult this guy, now we feel bad because he did not mention us. His army helicopters evac our wounded off the battlefield, US aircraft airlift our casualties to Europe, his military doctors in Germany patch up our guys. Get off it!! He actually did apologize to Canada for the 2002 friendly fire incident. Guest he should has msg'd each of us.....

You forgot "space aliens" to Area 51....

Actually Harper called my friend in hospital whose missing a leg. As well, Hillier flew out to Edmonton to visit him. Your relatives have served Canada well, you should be proud. Both my grandfathers served in WW2, my mom's grandfather served in WW1 with the German army. You can't win 'em all. Serveral of my great uncles also served, one was a POW in Burma. My "beef" is towards people, any people, that spout off garbage they know nothing about. There are plenty of issues discussed here I am not up to speed on, enviromental issues for example. I don't go into those threads spouting nonsense, I have opinions, I ask questions to see if what I think is valid. I have learned alot. I still cannot understand Global Warming, and why it was -34 here in North Bay, but whatever, I'll learn. I have read your post about he military issues, and frankly I see you as an anti-military zealot. Sorry, that's how you come across. ArmyGuy is in Afghanistan, and you profess to know more about what's going on there that he does. I was ther in 2002, going back in Apr. I hope I don't get a call from Steve.....