weaponeer

Here was a real bonehead move, see I don't always agree with the military... Oppotubity lost.... http://thechronicleherald.ca/Opinion/555879.html

The Dutch army is also supporting the Canadian Battle Group with big, heavy PH2000 SPH. jdobbin, Who in Gods nAme ever told you the CF18's are not good for Afghanistan?? They are an excellent CAS platform... You got some bad dope there. Please don't tell me I am wrong, fighter operations is my #1 business:) As for the CP140, NO THEY ARE NOT GOING TO A-STAN. We barely have enough to patrol the Canadian coast line. It was looked at & shelved. Yes, more M777s may go. We only have a few over there, not even enough to propery support as full BG.

I understand how you feel, they should see the whole picture, but refer to what armyguy said, IT'S NOT IF WE GET HIT, BUT WHEN!!! Mrs Bloggins, we regret to inform you of the death of your son, killed in action while escorting Ujjwal to a photo op, so he could get the "whole picture". Or, we must inform the Canadian people that Ujjwal was blown assunder while obtaining the "facts". We know the talibs are there, we know what they want, we know what has to be done, lets do it. As for the military being friendly with the CPC, I see your point, but the CPC is the only party in my memory that has shown any interest or concern for the CF...... We, the rank & file troops see that, and appreciate it....

My criticism was directed to some of the posters here, not political parties. The NDP concern over the military is hollow jdobbin. They bring up issues like pensions, OK, not bad, we are already treated well in hospitals. The danger pay issue, when you are taken out of the "danger zone", technically you are no longer eligable. When your are wounded and evac'd, at some point you will loose that extra pay, that just the way it goes. It is not heartless, those of us not in "danger" do not qual for the extra pay. They were using the military to make the gov't look bad. Now, if Jack was jumping up & down screaming "we need new tanks, we need new JSF fighters", then my opinion might change......

jdobbin, Although I do understand what you are saying I disagree. Thes people are only there for photo ops. As I have stated before, I have been in theatre when these "fact finding tours" show up. They are a royal pain, they risk lives for no gain. We have means in place to report back to Canada what is going on. The prob is trust, nobody trust us to do our job, or the gov't orgs to do theirs. As for the "next MND". That person, whom ever it may be can go over once elected & appointed MND. Anyone in parliment could theoretically be the next MND. That's a lot of "fact finders". These people on the extreme left do not like the military, soldiers or anything like that. They have preconceved notions of what we are about, and what we are. They are prejudice bigots toward the military, plain & simple. We could thell them the sky was blue, they would not believe it because a "soldier" told them. as a airmen, I feel I owe them no explination.

Armyguy, The reason why these people are complaining about this issue is that the gov't, DND, MND, CDS etc, has not been reporting what they want to hear. They have not reported that we are loosing, the Afghanis hate us, we are kiilling civilians etc.. All the BS they think is going on, the things they want to hear to validate their positions. If a gov't, or any other deligation goes over & reports back positive things, these peoiple do NOT want to hear that, so they scream about "not being told the truth".

In order for there to be success, the military needs to do it's job, the politicians need to do there's and then the NGOs, UN etc need to do there's. Iraq is an example of what happens if the politicians fail in there job. It is a team effort.

Hillier is right, it should not be up to the military to rebuild & govern. If the miltary can secure the place, and I believe they can, then you can bring in civilian contractors to rebuild. The miliatry cannot runs schools & should not, also, you do not want the military guarding schools forever, that is also a failure. The military should be doing what it does best, closing with & destroying the enemy. Concentrate on the talibs, make the place safe for reconstruction....

What if the Tories are not in power in 2009?? If the job gets done, come home, if it does not we can stay. Perhaps reduce to a single battalion... There may be an even bigger threat to deal with by then, anything is possible......

I think people need to see the real story, yes. The talibs massing in lawless regions of P-stan. I know they are being watched. I have every confidence our military leaders are preparing to deal with them. The US Army has sent a battalion to the area to beef up the Canadians, they have extended the tour of duty of 3/10th Mountain, and NATO is sending another full Brigade to the area. With these forces in place, this "winter offensive" will hopefully be a non-event....

Made me laugh too. The CPC is not aclling Dion a nazi, they are just poking a little fun. It is very light folks, look at some US attack ads. Iggy does most of the work in the ad. I can think of a lot whorse. The libs whole "soldiers in our streets" ad, that's good lets turn the people against their army for votes.

I have 1000% confidence that Canadians will see them as funny. Even libs will have a good laugh. Time for thick skin.....

I saw one this afternoon, thought it was funny. I think even Dion will find it funny. It is sense of humour time folks..............

I truely have no idea what she would say, your right. I have heard what she has said so far about military issues. She is not at all military savie, she know very little about us, therefore her credibility is low in so far as military issues are concerned. Ujjwal has made some "bizarre" comments as well. Politics is involved here whether we like it or not. I believe I am right, that positions will not change, but maybe I am wrong. Sometimes it is nice to be proved wrong, this would be one of those times. I do agree that coverage of Afghanistan has been poor, it only seems to hit the headlines when there is combat, or Canadian deaths. Other thatn that, not much heard. No news is good news sometimes. War is a very hard thing to cover. What is success, what is a failure. It can all be subjective, depending on your politics. I do not think people in WW2 got the whole story, or from the Korean War, Vietnam, GW1 & 2 etc... The link I provided shows the CF goals. I have no doubt DND is striving to meet these goals ASAP. I simply have to trust that the CF senior officers have a plan, are following their plan, and will bring this to a sucssesful end some day.

Ther's a lot of military experts on this site. Never served, do not know anything about it, but experts none the less:)

I would not say we "dislike" the libs, "not to happy with at times" would be more correct. The NDP, yeah, you figured it out. The prob here is these people are going to see what they want to see. Dawn Black is not going to come back to Canada and say, "Jack, we are wrong, they are doing a great job, we need to support this". ujjwal is going to say whatever Dion tells him to say, same with the CPC. This whole Afghan issue, people are only hearing what they want too hear. http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/01/28/...objectives.html Here's a link to a good article that may shed light on things.....

Risking the life of soldiers so Dawn Black or Ujjwal can have a photo outside the wire is nonsense. If these parlimentariens really gave a damm about our troops, they would not ask that of them. Armyguy is correcft, I have been in theatre when every asshat who thinks they have a stake in things shows up, wanting to go here & there, getting their photos taken. They could care less about the troops. Dawn Black is the NDP defence critic, she does not even know anything about the military. Ujjwal, same. There are people there whose job it is to report back to Ottawa, there's no need for theses clowns......

Something kinda weird happened on my last post, computer when crazy. Sorry. The Poles & Aussies are very well equipped. As for the CF wanting to go, perhaps, I never saw that. I saw great concern about what we could do, about what we would be getting ourselves into due to our equip & manpower probs. It is easier & cheaper to equip an amry to fight the talibs, then the RG.

Poland sent special forces teams that helped the USN seals clear off the offshore oil platforms. For the record, Poland has a large well equipped (modern Russian equip) military. Australia my friend has a small but lethal armed forces. I have worked with these guys, they are seriuos!! They are equipped with modern M1 tanks (60 of them), modern IFVs, they have Eurocopter Tiger attack helos, they have Blackhawk helos, the have Chinooks. Their F18's have all the state of the art modern secure radios & data links, and they operate a fleet of 27 F111 bombers that ar.

The Canadian Army only has 3 regular force Regiments. Forget militia, they do not count. Each regt has 3 battalions, 2 mechanized (with Light armoured Vehicles) and one Light battalion (Airborne. artic warfare, jungle/forest) Each regt is centered around a brigade, there are 3 regts, & 3 brigades in the Canadian Army. The PPCLI, are in the 1st Brigade based out of Edmonton, RCR is based in Petawawa as the regt of the 2nd Brigade & the R22R is in the 5th Brigade in Valcartier QC. Each brigade is divided into Battle Groups, that include an infantry battalion from on of the regts, attached HQ units, communications, military police, medical, dental, artilery, tanks (if required), recon, aviation (helos if rquired), combat engineers, logistics & maint and various other small units. On paper we have 9 BGs. In reality we would be hard pressed to field 6, and that would require stripping medical, comms, logistics, MP & other units from the Navy & Airforce. With all that in mind, prior to the Iraq war, we had a BG in Bosnia & we had a BG in Afghanistan, each for 6 months. That means we had only 6 BGs in Canada, however, 2 of those BGs were training to REPLACE the BGs overseas in 6 months, they were not avail for Iraq. Also, if 2 BGs were overseas, that means 2 had just rotated home, meaning they were unavail because they would have been at a very low stae of readiness. Once a BG returns home, it's soldiers go on leave, take courses, are transfered to other units etc... These BG are in a training & reconstitution phase. With 2 BGs overseas, 2 training to relpace them, and two in T&R phase, that only leaves "on paper" 3 BGs. In reality the troops to fully man these other 3 BGs do not exist. There would not be enough infantry, medical pers, comms pers etc... Also, on of these BGs would be designated the "replacement pool". This is used to quickly replace soldiers killed & wounded overseas. The only way we could ahve activley participated in the invasion is if #1, one of the BGs in training was "re-roled" for Iraq, and #2 if that BG was rapidly re-equipped with modern Tanks, Mech Infantry, SP arty, attack helos, support helos, and our CF18's were quickly upgraded to modern standards. This was not going to happen, better to just increase the commitment to A-stan. We eventually pulled out of Bosnia, whichfreed up troops for Afghanistan & future ops....

3 PPCLI BG, do you know what kind of BG they are This is important to understand the Iraq war requirnments. The Iraq invasion was a Blitzkrieg style, mechanized, manouver warfare operation. The Cf is not equipped for this style of warfare. There's no debate, we cfannot do it!!! 3PPCLI BG returned to their home base in Edmonton. As you quoted, some of the soldiers went on home to Winnipeg. Do you know why?? Because they were from the 2PPCLI BG, and 3PPCLI borrowed them to make a full BG. Other troops went home to Trenton, why, because they were from Petawawa's 3RCR BG, again borrowed to give 3PPCLI BG full strength!! Keep in mind here, another BG was in Bosnia at the same time, another BG have moved to Afghanistan to replace 3PPCLI BG that came home. No my friend, there was no troops to send. Our Airforce was not wanted after the problems over Kosovo in Allied Force. Our Navy was present in the Persian Gulf. There were NO GROUND TROOPS training for Iraq, did not happen. The Canadian Army only has 9 BG "on paper". At the tyime of the raq war 6 were fully committed to other things...

I think people need to get a little "thicker skin" here. It's not that bad a joke, I have heard much worse. This is not rascism. This was a silly joke, there are far more important things to worry about.. like will the Leafs win tonight????

As for the main point of this thread, I really hope not. It is time in this country for another point of view. Quebec libs have been running this country for most of my life. t is someone elses turn....

Good evening all, For the record I think going into Iraq was a mistake. Taking out Saddam was not, the way it was done was. The whole idea about Canada staying out of Iraq is a bit of a myth, we were involved in some ways. First, PM Chretien, & I am no fan, made the right choice by not commiting Canadian ground forces. I have stated in other posts, we had none to commit. Keep in mind at the time we had a Battle Group in Bosnia, and another in Afghanistan. What Chretien did was increase our commitment to Afghanistan, allowing the US Army to re-assign a brigade destined for Khandahar to Iraq. This was good for the US, because they could commit another of their units to Iraq. Another thing Chretien did was allow Canadian Forces pers on exchange with US & UK forces to participate with their units. I know, because I was on of them. So yes, we did have a "small" hand in it. As for the overall invasion, perhaps if we were involved more things would have been different. I am only speculating here. Perhaps the US may have listened to our counsel and tapped our experiences from the Balkins. Perhaps they would have listened to our ideas, perhaps not, we'll never know. As I stated in the begining, I think taking out Saddam was good idea, I would have done it much differently...

Good day all, As I have said in other posts, I have been in the CF for 18 years, O'Connor is the best MND I have ever worked for. He cares about the military, and about our military people & families. He gets us what we need, and that's something the Canadian public has not seen since the '50s. For doing what's right for the armed forces, he is excellent. That does not mean I always agree with him, I disagree with this A-stan/MPs decision. This is an awesome opportunity to show everybody what's really going on over there. This is a major opportunity missed to show all political parties, as well as the entire Canadian public what is going on, what we have accomplished and what still needs to be done. We (the military) owe the Canadian people that. We are asking for support for the people, we need to show them what they are supportting, the whole entire truth, the good, the bad, and the still to be done. There is nothing to hide, I do not understand it. O'Connor has not always gotten it right, he is human, but he is far ahead of what we have ever had in the recent past.