weaponeer

And those who sit on their high horse and feel a moral superiority to judge soldiers when they have no idea what's really going on over there are just cowards......

You don't know the first thing about today's military or the military of WW1 & 2....

As a military air controller all I can say is so....

ROEs are not "rocket science", they are really quite simple. I am in pre-depoly training now, I can assure you we go over them day after day, scenario after scenario. All Canadian patrols have ANA soldiers with them, if for nothing else than to translate. When a soldier at a checkpoint aims his gun at you, you stop, simple. It is pretty obvious. If you drove up to the gate at CFB Trenton, having never been on a military base in your life, and the guard raises his gun, I think you know to stop. As for the cowards comment, yes, if you feel some moral superiority above a soldier in the line of fire in Afghanistan, while hiding behind a computer, then coward fits.. A soldier shot a civilian who ran a checkpoint. Most normal people would say, "that's terrible, lets wait and see what the investigation finds". That's why we have MP's & RCMP over there. If you are not there, you don't know what happened, your in no position to judge.

I do think of those who have served, as I am one, and I have lost friends, so spare me the lecture. My best friend in the military is a diehard Liberal, as was I once. The Liberals DO have a problem with the military, and those who serve, and frankly that's the problem. Canadian History is full of examples of this. Trudeau said that thew military was "about as important as pig subsidies", MacKenzie King tells of "being sickened by soldiers" when he visited them in WW2. Jean could not have given a dam about the CF, and we all know it. I have attended many formal occassions as a CF officer where senior politicians were present. With few exceptions the Liberals were condisending, and did display an attitude towards military officers. They were definatly uncomfortable around us. This is where my attitudes were "re-shaped", and my choice of support changed. This is not to say all Liberal politicians were like that, those whom had served did seek us out to talk to us. I had a really good conversation with Bill Graham one day while he toured our unit. McCalum visited our unit once, he was in over his head and it showed, he could not have cared less if he tried. With all the recent equip purchases, most Liberal MPs seem more concerned about whose getting "spin off" business than whether we have the right equip for the troops. When a Canadian soldier died overseas, PM Mulroney would call the family, Jean did not. The Liberals did not stand up for the CF during the Somalia crisis, they dithered, and we lost the Airborne Regt. They had help on that one from the PCs on that one, I must admit. Tory politicians were more friendly towards us. They ingauged in conversation, asked questions. I was at an event a few years ago that Ralph Klien attended. He came to speak to us, had a beer with us and told stories of his days in the RCAF. As for the "dark days of the 1990's", they are behind us now. The CF did it's part to help preserve the Canadian way of life by taking huge budget cuts to help balance the books. In some ways we are a better, more efficient org for it, in other ways we are still really hurting because of it. Some good things from the 90's, many outdated peices of equip were retired, many surplus bases closed, HQs were reduced and streamlined, so it was not all bad. The CF has contributed much to this country, people of all political stripes have served, and died, however these days those on the left are hostile towards us. Some of the posts here can support that. As for the Liberal party, I cannot say what has happened to them. They used to be the party of the center, occassionally looking left or right, but maintaining the center. It seems they have taken a solid turn towards the left, and are headed that way, NDP lite. As for myself, yes I support Harper and the Tories. Why, because most, not ALL, most of their values are in line with my own, and that's my right. I have been in the military 18 years, Liberal support used to be very high throught the CF, that is not the case today.

CB, I second the motion... Good post, what a complete weasel...

Whatever, Had he said Chreeton was a great guy, I wish he was still around the libs would not at all be upset. He said something they did not want to hear, so he's bad. The REAL prob is the lib attitude towards the military, it has always been arrogant and self-righteous. They have always looked down on the military and those who serve. Hillier called a spade a spade, good on him...

As stated before, it takes a REAL coward to hide behind a computer and critic. Real coward...... Takes a real coward to hide safe and sound at home a critic soldiers whose lives are in danger, who have solid ROE and follow them. It is pain to anyone with the slightest intel that you have no idea what you are talking about, just another "know nothing know it all". Never been there, never done anything, but an expert none the less......

I am not a right-winger. As for supporting talibs & AQ, they don't want anything to do with you either...

Borg, These people are bigots, plain & simple. Look at thier posts, take out the words militarty, soldiers, police, Hillier etc.., and replace them with racial slurs, then see what they really are..... Weaponeer

Sure baylee, whatever.... If you were in that soldiers positions you would be on ther ground sobbing, sh$%$ting your pants and crying for your mommy!! You could not handle it, your a coward. Cowards cannot handle seeing real men & women standing up to the talibs, AQ and every other fool in the world. They cannot handle seeing better people than themselves risking their lives, stopping criminals, fighting in wars etc.. They cannnot stand it because it show's them for what they are, cowards, plain & simple.

Borg, true enough, unless you have been in the situation you cannot even begin to explain it to people. I know why my grandfaters never talked about WW2. It is really easy to critic the police or military when you have never spent time in their place...

Polynewbie, What's wrong, you get turned down for a loan/mortgage or something??? Banks have always done good by me, I have the housed, boat & 2 cars to prove:)...

As for the "moral" comments Harper made, he's just saying it like it is. Cold, hard facts. June 6, 1944 - Gen DD Esienhower issued a statment about the Normandy landings, calling them "A great crusade". He added in the statment if you read it all, "GREAT CRUSADE, FROM WHICH MANY WILL NEVER RETURN"!!! That's war...

As a member of the CF going over in Apr, and now doing pre-deployment training, I can say I would be very scared in this situation. I would follow the given ROE, and if the individual did not respond to warnings, they would go down. No if's, buts or maybe's, BANG, down!! That's Insurgent Warfare.

It is really easy to hide like a coward behind a computer and whine about Canadians killing inocent people. You have no idea what your talking about, just more tired left wing garbage.... You run a road block, ignore warnings, you die, sorry....

The troops today were Canadian. If you ignore warnings, ignore warning shots you are no longer an innocent civilian, your a target. Great job on the Canadian troops. You ignore warnings, you die, it's war baylee, you can't stomach reality, grow up... I am sure if it was a suicide bomber, and he killed the Canadians that would be OK with you. Real brave hiding behind the computer though....

Hillier is an excellent CDS. Not a politician in uniform, but a real combat soldier. He's a warrior, something we have not had leading the CF in my 18 years. He is the best General Officer I have every known, and I have known several. He has given the CF a new sense of pride, improved moral, and he LEADS. This straight talking soldier is something the weak minded lefties don't care for because he says unpleasent things they do not want to hear. As for the "dark days" of the 1990's, they were dark for us. However, Canada did have a serious fiscal problems that needed to be sorted out. The CF is responsible to defend the Canadian way of life, and if that means suffering budget cuts to save Canada, then so be it for the time required. The CDS is stating the facts as he sees them, and he is right. The prob here is the relationship between the Libs and the military. The libs have always had an arrogant condesending attitude towards the military and people who serve in the forces. Many lib PMs, King, Trudeau, Cheeton have had poor relatios with the military because of their prejudices towards soldiers, sailors & airmen. trudeau did not like the military or soldiers, neither did Chreeton. When the PPCLI was being sent to afghanistan in 2002 Chreeton came out to edmonton to say goodbye. I his speach he could not even get their regts name right. These guys are being sent off to war by this twit, and he doesn't even know who they are. MacKenzie King, the lib PM in WW2, he did not visit hospitals where wounded soldiers were staying unless he had no other choice, and he said after a visit with Canadian troops in Europe in WW2 that he was "brought to the point of sickness at being around these soldiers, I cannot stand their war jargon", the book Canadian Military History, pg 187. This is what a lib PM said about Canadians fighting & dying for his very existance. The military has always been the military. The problem here is the libs, and their attitudes towards the military.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/SP287758.htm Sorry, forgot the link:)

In case one still harboured thoughts that the Taliban is open to reason and negotiation. This is available to any media outlet that has access toReuters news wire - let's see how many pick it up. Shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act. Taliban flee battle using children as shields - NATO Reuters (UK), via AlertWeb.net, 14 Feb 07 Article Link KABUL, Feb 14 (Reuters) - Taliban fighters used children as human shields to flee heavy fighting this week during an operation by foreign and Afghan forces to clear rebels from around a key hydrolectric dam, NATO said on Wednesday. The Taliban have used human shields before, but never children, local residents say. The fighting occurred during Operation Kryptonite on Monday, an offensive to clear insurgents from the Kajaki Dam area in southern Helmand province to allow repairs to its power plants and the installation of extra capacity. "During this action ... Taliban extremists resorted to the use of human shields. Specifically, using local Afghan children to cover as they escaped out of the area," Colonel Tom Collins, a spokesman for the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) told reporters in Kabul. NATO and foreign forces ran into heavy small arms and rocket-propelled grenade fire during the clash, but suffered no casualties, Collins said. The fighting occurred in an area where 700 mainly foreign fighters, including Chechens, Pakistanis and Uzbeks, arrived from Pakistan this week to reinforce Taliban guerrillas targeting the dam, according to local officials. Earler on Wednesday, NATO said it had killed a Taliban leader in a pre-dawn airstrike between the dam and the nearby town of Musa Qala, to the west, which the rebels have held for 13 days. NATO said there were no civilian casualties, but local tribal leader Haji Sultan said several villagers were killed. Helmand Governor Asadullah Wafa would not comment. The Kajaki dam has seen major fighting in recent weeks between the Taliban and NATO forces, mainly British and Dutch. NATO-led forces have been conducting operations in the area for several months to allow reconstruction on the dam and the power transmission lines to boost output, after fighting halted repair and development work last year. The Taliban cannot destroy the dam, which would also flood a large area of the Helmand Valley, but its tactics are aimed at making it too unsafe for work to go ahead. On Tuesday, two Afghan army officers and and a police officer were killed in a joint attack with NATO forces on a bomb-making operation in southern Uruzgan province, just to the north of Musa Qala and Kajaki. Ten suspected insurgents were captured in the operation, NATO said in a statement.

Maybe it is just that BC is where all the idiots are....

Tanks, The Canadian Army currently has 66 Leopard C2 tanks, 2 Squadrons (30 tanks) at Edmonton with the Lord Starthcona's Horse, and the rest at the Armoured school in Gagetown NB. LSH is getting a third Sqn, another 15 tanks from the school to add to the regt. The LSH sent B Sqn to Afghanistan, 15 Leos, plus support vehicles. A Sqn is still in Edmonton with their 15 tanks working up to replace B Sqn, and as you have read C Sqn will convert from a recon role to tanks with 15 more and eventually replace A sqn later in the year. War is a very cruel and messy business, I don't have to tell any of you that, your all smart, you know. But if you get into one, you have to win, there's no other real choice. The fast you win the fewer the people (both sides) die. Get it overwith fast and furious. Overwhelming force, completely overpower the enemy, it will be over quickly. despense with the "unpleasentness" fast. As for Iraq, I am NO expert, I have no idea what should be done. Perhap builda time machine and start over. If it were only that easy.

I know there is no love loss between the Turks and Kurds, when is this foolishness going to end. This seems easy to me, we'll play over here, you play over there, we'll stay out of each others way. Nonsense. Here's some good Afghan info ref the Canadian army & tanks, looks like we are pulling some Leo's outta mothballs... http://www.strathconas.ca/index2.php?subac...rt_from=&ucat=&

Why would Turkey object to Kurdistan. you ahve a meeting of the mind, Turkey, the US & the Kurds, spell it out, this land will be Kurdistan (northern Iraq), the Kurds WILL NOT try and expand into Turkey. Any Turk-Kurds that want, now have ahomeland. The US will guarantee the security of both Turkey (which it does through NATO) and Kurdistan. Kurds will be reliant on US aid, that keeps them in check. Southern Iraq, base a lage US Army ground force Kuwait, like Germany in the Cold War, and let Iran know in NO uncertain terms what happens if they go into Iraq. Partion Iraq between the Sunni's & Shiittes. Again, I am NO expert on these matters, just throwing something out there. The only other option id to pull out, and let the civil war takes it's natural course. Eventually someone will win...

A war, any war you enter into, you should enter into to win. If you believe in your cause so much you are willing to fight, you have to win. You win wars with OVERWHELMING FORCE!! It is simple. That does not n]mean a free for all slaughter, no. It means you show up with a well trained, very well equipped and excellently lead army, and you compltely destroy the other army. Overwhelming force, you do not give them 1 second the breathe until the surrender. Then you treat them according to the Geneva Convention, you pacify & befriend them, as we did with Germany & Japan after WW2. It works. No half measures...