Posit

The official stance of mainstream churches is that they welcome all people of all nationality and origins. However, the majority of church elders still fall into that exclusive category of one race domination. I remember one minister whom I was working with in making some applications for funding a major project. He hit a wall in trying to steer the church into tolerance and acceptance and he eventually gave in, left the rural church he was minister of and went to Toronto to anther church. Funny enough the diocese sent in a lesbian minister to fill in while they decided who to hire to fill his shoes. Needless to say there were a few people less in the pews on Sundays....for a while....

The accounts of graves come from personal accounts from people I know (or knew since many are dying off). The fact is the Church and the school masters - many of them priests or ministers - have documented, or have knowledge of these graves on a much broader scale than the personal accounts of former inmates. Like the facts that residential schools were places of abuse, it took a long time for them to be closed and even longer times for people to admit the abuses. It was only through the personal accounts of former inmates that people started to see the patterns and get the Church and government to admit their failures. You do realize that even today the Priesthood is filled with paedophiles, adulterers and substance abusers that are hidden from the public by a code of silence? It will take a serious examination of the facts of the residential school abuses and murders along with painful first hand accounts being recalled by former inmates before all the facts are known. All we have now are some profoundly consistent accounts of graves and murders coming from a vast array of people - including many Church members and administrators whom have exercised their conscience by being willing to testify against the Church and the government in the up-coming inquiry. I have lots more but I just don't have the time or patience to explain it to a concrete wall of deniers. I have however, given you a lead and if you are interested you can follow up with some of the threads that will spawn from that one site.

Like this? http://www.hiddenfromhistory.org/ I understand much more - including personal testimony - will be coming out that the Truth and Reconcilliation Commission hearings as they begin this year.

Historically, the Church has evolved just slightly enough to thwart the revolutions against them. It is happening now as we see Pentecostal and Evangelists turning into Sunday rock concerts just to attract the crowds. They believe that people want to be entertained and occupied and so they have managed to swing quite a few people away from the dominant churches of the past and int the evolved newer formats. There is a need in Canada to remove the interlock between dominant Christian thinking out of the political institutions of government. As that happens it opens the doors for oppressed minorities to rise up and be heard within the system. And there would not be even a discussion today about "reasonable accommodation" if the predominantly white Christian male was not losing power within the government, business and society in general. The days of raced-based power are over.

You obviously have never looked at the statistical or factual evidence. The vast majority of children DID experience sexual and physical abuse. They were also mentally and culturally abused by stripping them of their families, their languages and their culture and brainwashed. It is estimated by some very prominent (and former) Church executives that approximately 50,000 children (Kevin Arnett, the United Church) were buried in unmarked graves in residential schools across Canada. Many more were abused. STATISTICALLY, only a few found the experience "beneficial" or "educational". No, Riverwind you are determined to fog the truth with denial and anti-native sentiment, which leads me ask further: Who do you work for that makes it so important to ignore the factual Canadian history and replace it with made up fantasy? You must really have a stake in not seeing Canada pay for its crimes. Are you perhaps a member of that same executive that fired Kevin Arnett and proceeded to burn the church records detailing the abuses and murders? Too bad Kevin managed to copy almost all of them before that happened....

I'm kind of interested in how you can rationalize how murder, beatings, rape and kiddie diddling are part of an essential public education, Riverwind? I mean does the public school system have a moral duty to remove YOUR children from your home and care and use them as private sexual playthings?

Hard "earned" wealth....more like easily "stolen" wealth. Fair and Reasonable was determined by the court in the Whitefish case and basically the court was saying that calculating compound interest on monies owed was in their opinion fair and reasonable. That does open the door for Six Nations to claim compound interest on any monies they are owed. And since they are going through negotiation and not court, they have a greater chance of insisting on that compound interest be paid upfront as part of any settlement. You hardly get the issues and trying to make it personal is just too childish to respond to any further.

So what. If it is determined through negotiations that the Crown stole $2 million for the Grand River Navigation Company then they are entitled to a "fair and reasonable" return on that money, including all compounded interest. All said it done Detlor is right in suggesting that the amount is likely to be in the $billions since the GRNC today is worth about $1 billion all by itself. Add to the claim by Six Nations, the Crown's theft of money to finance Osgoode Hall, and the embezzlement of millions of dollars by Samuel Jarvis and it is likely to fall into the 10s of $billions. There is nothing different about "fair and reasonable" since the government has a history of being "unfair and unreasonable" where it concerns First Nations grievances.

"...now it looks as though they want to screw Canada for BILLIONS of dollars." The Court ruled that Whitefish Band was entitled to "fair and reasonable" compensation. That's hardly screwing Canada but more a realization that Canada has been screwing the Whitefish Band for many years. If Six Nations are successful at receiving "fair and reasonable" compensation for the loss of lands or the misues of their trust account (as admitted by the government that trust money was used to finance the failed Grand River Navigation Company, and to finance the building of Osgoode Hall - neither of which was repaid) then it may equal into to the billions now that the Courts have ruled that interest must be compounded. There is no "screwing" going on at all, just "fair and reasonable" compensation....as it should be in a just society.

Genocide has been tried and First Nations are still here. Got give them credit for surviving any number of attempts to wipe them out, and so far they haven't kicked back.

You naitivity is laughable Scott. You think in a war that warriors would were camo like the armed forces would? That's silly. They would no doubt be wearing silk suits and walking down Bay Street beside you. There would be no imaginery wildness war in Canada against the natives. And if there were - if the military decided to turn their weapons against indigenous people, you can bet that it would be fought in the bedrooms of our communities, in the office places and industry of our urban centres. And that is why the US is not only unsuccessful in Iraq, but are deathly afraid of home grown terrorism. You can't shoot what you can't identify and the military is trained to avoid civilian casualties, and freedom fighters and insurgents are not. In fact their terror on the world depends on civilian targets. What makes you think a home grown war with anyone would be any different? (Keep in mind 80% of native people live off reserves in urban centres)

Actually, it is you that don't have a clue. For the same reasons that the US weren't successful in Vietnam and won't be in Iraq, and for the same reason that Canadians will not be successful in Afghanistan, a war with indigenous peoples would never succeed. Armies and soldiers are involved in any conflict because it is a job. Freedom fighters and indigenous people are involved because of a principled cause. And most importantly it is impossible for a soldier to differentiate between a citizen and the opposition.

Oy vey Another ignorunt just entered the circle of jerks.

In order to change the system we would need to enter it as an alternative. The party would provide a reference to who forms the lead caucus.

New Canadian Party. Fiscally conservative. Socially liberal. Environmentally Green. Reformed people's democracy. Set goals to remove the party whip from all votes and open the house to a free vote on all issues. Any other ideas? We should be able to pick up those Conservatives who are fed up with Harper's bully tactics; those who abhor spineless Dion wimpering and and those who want a greener government policy.

Sure. It is ong-weh-hon-weh (Iroquoian) or anish-a-na-bey (Ojibway). Both mean "human being".

Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. Albert Einstein

You didn't read the link either. If you did you would see that the Laws of Adoption and the Rights of Foreign Nations permits anyone to join, so long as they meet the requirements for being a citizen. Few of our trailer-trash would meet the minimum requirements. I don't believe a sponsor would accept a bum as being someone who would be a model citizen. There are lots of they might deny an application for citizenship and there are lots foreign nationals whom in the past have joined the Confederacy and accepted the responsibilities of citizenship.

You don't read very well, do you? The answer is in the Great Law and no it is not exclusionary. You just need a sponsor, just like you do under some circumstances to immigrate to Canada. The Canadian government is irrelevent to this discussion. The Confederacy are sovereign...the US recognizes that....

That's right Snotty boy. You get bonus points if you can trace your Scott aboriginal heritage through all the women in your family. Mind you like MDancer I suspect your application would be rejected because you don't meet the basic criteria. In Iroquois terms you are pretty much a criminal and they don't let criminals join.

The Great Law of Peace You can start reading at #66 & #73. You will need an Iroquoian sponsor and must comply with certain requirements. First of all you need to be a worthy person and I highly doubt you will find anyone to vouch for you on that. So you might try sticking to being a Canadian.

You can also give up you Canadian citizenship, become and American and enjoy the collective rights they enjoy too. No doubt ~someone~ "cut off your head" because you seem to be talking through your a**.

Poor Scotty. Can't participate in an intelligent discussion so hurls insults instead. Get a life and an education. You might learn that your myths are really just lies your mother told you about your origins.

You can't have that "collective" right UNLESS you denounce your Canadian citizenship and become a citizen of the Iroquois Confederacy. It has nothing to do with race OR DNA and everything to do with sovereignty.

The British never negotiated for that for us. They didn't negotiate on behalf of natives either but both countries "recognized" that aboriginal sovereignty was beyond their control and entrenched in the Jay Treaty an agreement between them that Natives crossing the border wouldn't be molester - which has been interpreted to mean, no duty, taxes or other encumbrances. And as I understand it, the Iroquois Confederacy is on the verge of reaching their own agreement with the US Homeland Security to allow the use of Confederacy issued cards to continue the unmolested travel across the border guaranteed under the Jay Treaty. As far as the other fiduciary responsibilities we have for native education, health and exemptions you'll have to take that up with your MP. Perhaps you will get rid of your sour grapes and realize the legal relationship we have with natives as a result of Treaties (which cannot be unilaterally modified) and due to their aboriginal rights guaranteed under the Charter are an obligation we undertook in order to use land and resources for our own profit. And unfortunately due to our greed we took loads more than we are legally entitled to.