jefferiah

Americans are good at business. If an American network took over Canadian sports I am sure we would have affiliate channels here. For the affiliate it is more beneficial to show programming which is successful in the vicinity of the affiliate. Lets create a fictional sports network to illustrate. SportsTvForever we will call it. Well SportsTVForever has stations in each major city in Canada. And when there is an important sporting event in Toronto, SportsTVForever will air that event, while on the same night SportsTVForever Vancouver will air a sporting event involving the Vancouver home team.

I don't know exactly what you mean by "beat the majority of US programming", but I think you are dreaming. Everyweek BBM lists the top shows in Canada. Just about everyweek CBC is absent. Just about every week CTV and Global share alternate spots on the top ten list. Just about everyweek those shows on that list are from American networks. Yes there are Canadians who do watch shows in Canada made for Canada. They are a minority. Do you know why in America shows like Are You Being Served (UK) is on PBS and not on CBS? Because they have a smaller audience. That is what CBC shows are like here.

Hey dont be sorry, Cybercoma. I understood you full well and there is no problem with what you said. I was trying to point out that you already knew that.

Wooow. 1 million viewers. Belongs right in the same dynasty as Cheers, All In The Family, Seinfeld, etc. That certainly warrants 30 people paying for something one guy in the group wants to watch. And what does that tell you? Why must there be Canadian shows? OK lets get this straight. In order for there to be Canadian shows we pretty much have to all chip in even though we are not watching. But it's so important to have Canadian shows that we must all pay for shows we are not watching. Because it would be a horrible loss if we as Canadians were to lose the crappy shows we are not watching. Meanwhile we all watch American programming anyway, and so basically we've created a job out of nothing and for nothing. That's like me getting money from the government so I can rent Scotiabank Place to put on a concert for no one. I personally think it's a rather defeatist attitude which says Canada could not compete. And it is this attitude which fulfills itself when we remove the incentive to compete. It is the same attitude which creates crap all over the world. And in nations where this attitude does not exist, there is always a higher level of success. Like saying, "We can't succeed out there, so instead of even trying to compete or make something which is good, we will make laws to protect our own crap and force people to pay for our product." But if indeed Canadian shows cannot compete, then they certainly do not deserve to be there.

If you really want to make money, you do what makes money. Canadian series do not do that well. When CBC produces a show that can at least compete with re-runs of good shows, then we can talk about spending money to get it out on the marketplace. Right now they spend everyone's money on a load of crap. Canada's favourite series is Coronation Street???? Just about every week the top 10 shows in Canada are either CTV programs or Global programs, and the majority of those shows which acheive this honor are American.

Does this have anything to do with the fact that no one is watching it? And if no one is watching it...... It's like me saying I should have a government funded salary to be an NHL player cuz no NHL team would pay for me to play.

This is something I can never understand Margrace. I am not a rich business tycoon either. But it never fails to astound me how people can think that certain jobs are "Our Jobs". It's the union mentality. Union's own the jobs. One big problem here is unions screwing themselves. They have five people doing the job of one guy and making the job last 10 times longer. And then when they demand more and refuse to work, a private contractor sends in one guy who agrees to do the job ten times faster for less pay, they threaten him with baseball bats cuz those are "their jobs". So if I owned a company why woudn't I move shop to someplace where people are more than happy to work at a great job.

Well, CTV is obligated to air Canadian programming. Not that I agree with that either. But there is no comparison between CTV and CBC. CTV had Seinfeld, it has CSI, Criminal Minds, etc etc.

Good question. And your "compared to what" actually helps make my answer. Expensive is a comparative term. What is expensive for one business venture, may not be expensive for another. Compared to the revenue this show generates it is expensive. Why do you suppose that private networks, for whom success is necessary for survival, do not try to pick up these shows? And better yet, why does CBC not act more responsibly with tax payer dollars and try to pick up shows which actually have proven they can make it on the free market?

Actually the point about "if it is so successful" is used as a counter argument to your claims of its so-called success. If the reason is not to fund shows and programming that otherwise would not make it, then why did we need subsidized TV in the first place. And even if it is not successful that does not mean one shuts it down. The argument is to cut it loose, period. If there are certain areas where its market is very good, then in those areas it could function on its own. Though I assume that even in it's best markets that programming would have to be changed to make it sell. And that is as it should be, because if it sells that means people democratically are choosing to buy in. Right now The Hour is a show which is expensive to produce, has few viewers and survives. While a host of American shows or other shows are available that people would more gladly watch, the tax payer has to pay for shows he doesn't. When CBC advertises a new show for the new season it is usually a laugh. Everyone sitting around the TV says "Yeah, I'm sure that'll be great." But there is no incentive for CBC to make a show which has to compete, because the cash is flowing in the form of tax dollars. Satisfaction for all services is a broad question. What needs to be done is polls concerning whether you are a fan of a certain CBC show. What shows do people watch on TV in general? Are those CBC shows? Are more people watching Little Mosque than CSI? Does anyone watch The Hour? Da Vinci's Crapquest? Dragon's Den? etc etc. As I said before, had you asked me about getting rid of the CBC a few years ago I would have said "No!", even though then there was very little I was ever watching on it. This is why the argument about the CBC has to be made before such a thing could be enacted. Show people the reasoning behind the idea, and that it is good. And then more will get on board. Before the idea became attractive to me I had to have it pointed out to me why such an idea is good. "Do you think CBC should be cut loose," someone might say. "No," I reply. "But everyone pays for CBC to subsidize shows that no one is watching. For instance, Jeff, do you watch Little Mosque, The Hour, etc." "No." "Do most people you know actually watch these shows?" "No." Etc etc

The Poppy is an accepted symbol of Rememberance Day. And it is worn by just about every Canadian, and the holiday is not religious, nor does it belong to a certain group. Rememberance Day is a Canadian Holiday! And in a Canadian courtroom one should be able to wear it proudly. Perhaps next she will declare that the Canadian flag offends certain people in the courtroom.

No I know. I realize that. I was just pointing out that Cybercoma already knew that it was from World War 1. Small potatoes.

Well, actually now I am not so sure, cuz re-reading your post it could depend on what you meant. It's nothing big anyway. Just that when he said ALL veterans he was acknowledging the fact that the Poppy was not a WWII symbol, and this is why he was saying he has some small issue over the Poppy. He said this because he feels World War II is especially important. Not that I think he is overly concerned. He simply pointed out that the Poppy is not a symbol of both wars. But rather I think it has become a Canadian symbol of war vets in general. Anyways small potatoes.

That is what Cybercoma was saying.

If the CBC market is so luscious and loyal I wonder why would they have any remarkable fears about having the umbilical cord cut. If CBC radio is such a great station in "some urban markets" then they could do quite well privately in those particular areas. But actually your question is a good one. For instance, had you asked me about two years ago, "Should we get rid of the CBC?" My answer would have been, "No." Baldly put it sounds quite bad to the average person. But given consideration of the tax dollars put into it, and the fact that its mostly a great deal of shows that nobody really watches. I mean seriously, the fact that The Hour gets the funding it does and has very few viewers does not make sense, and it shows that CBC is not responsible funding. And that is just one example. There are a whole slew of CBC shows which are really second-rate and in America they would belong on PBS with Are You Being Served and BallyKissAngel? So the idea has to be introduced to the public and explained to them aptly before such a move could be made. Personally I think the arguments against subsidization of the CBC, or at least the idea of making some cuts, are pretty good. Those ideas given mainstream exposure could catch on quite well, since there is a great deal of logic behind them. A little less money for shows like The Hour and Dragons Den, which few of us are watching----could translate to a little more money for something important which all of us benefit from.

I never said it should not be told or asked for this story to be suppressed. My original response said that it was sickening. But I also added in that response that I wondered why the topic said fundies are the same all over. I had assumed that her meaning was Christian fundamentalists and so I was wondering what Christian Fundies were involved in this sort of thing over here (As if she was saying "See the Fundies even do this in Africa, just like they do everywhere else"). I may have been wrong about that now, as I see its quite possible and probable that she meant religious fundamentalists in general. Ah. You are wrong. Right off the bat I said no such thing. In my original post (as aforementioned) on this topic I agreed with Buffy that this was sickening and said that I would not oblige her with any defense for it, which I am sure she was waiting for because judging by her posts she was expecting some "apologetic" entertainment. Not only that in my second post, I did not say that right off the bat, but near the end. And it was not in response to Buffy's topic, but to your post. I avoided the bait originally of being the one to bring up the topic of equivalency. Now if you are kind enough to go back and review your own first post you will see that you are the one who introduced the matter of equivalency into this thread. You, having done that, opened the door for me to respond to it in rebuttal. You were the first one to mention Muslims, Drea. And you were pointing out how right-wingers criticize Islam but Christianity is ok. And you made a comparison between the Islamic fundies and Christian fundies. So you brought up the topic of equivalency. To which I then responded (and not right off the bat as you say) that there is still no comparison.

Having read both your posts (you are both posters I enjoy on here), I would say you are most often in agreement. The thing is, Borg: half the time JBG is serious and the other half he is sarcastic. Sometimes alternately within one post. And its easy to get confused at times. That's not to say that he isn't really extremely left wing.

That's weak. Buffy digs up some henoius case in Nigeria and says "See, fundies are the same all over." As if this is the regular behaviour. Now of course this is a sickening case, there is no doubt about that, and no defense for it. The point is even with this case, muslim fanaticism is still much more widespread and not reduced to an incident here and there. Middle East, Phillipines, Thailand, America, Europe , Britain. That is not to say that all muslims are fanatics Drea, and if that is what you are hearing you are missing the point. The fact is Muslim fanaticism is happening everywhere. And in most cases where it occurs it seems to outdo the fanaticism of others. Moreover I think Buffy maintains more of an interest in the fact that it was Christians doing this than a deep concern over what was done. I think she is quite pleased about this. "Well, this is downright sickening, and we have those crazy Christians to thank for it!! Wooo hooo!!" she says. In very many of these cases as well the "anomoly, one guy" thing is actually the truth. Like Mark David Chapman or something like that. But nobody is making that claim with this case. You are acting as if people are, but really you are full of your own pre-conceived notions of how people will respond. Nonetheless, this case (in Nigeria no less) is nothing compared to the fact that Islamic fanaticism has become a concern around the globe. That terrorism has occured on American soil, British soil, all across the Middle East and Asia. And that this heinous crime Buffy has dug up in one small corner of the world (Nigeria) is the type of thing that is quite commonplace in most Islamic nations on a regular daily basis.

http://www.rclbr50.ca/news/item.asp?T=12&NID=287723646 (This story failed to make the national news for a long time. It occured in a courtroom in Kitchener Ontario roundabout Rememberance Day.) "An incident in a Kitchener court room has surprised and disappointed a Royal Canadian Legion official. Shortly before Remembrance Day, a Waterloo regional police officer who was testifying during a case was told by the presiding judge that he should not have worn a poppy into her courtroom. According to a court transcript, Justice Margaret Woolcott of the Ontario Court of Justice told Const. Dan Haines that the poppy may not be viewed as a "totally acceptable" or "totally neutral" symbol by everyone who comes to court."

Sorry to disappoint you Buffy, but I am not going to defend it. It is sickening. Yet you say Fundies are the same all over. Have you seen this happen with Canadian fundies or American fundies?

Private networks can be left or right. There is no ethical issue there because they are privately owned. The CBC is government run and tax funded, like a public school. It is not the job of a public school to promote one political party, right? Same with the CBC. Maybe you disagree, but to me it is quite apparent the CBC is left-leaning. And that makes a great deal of sense in a way because the existence of CBC itself (as a government network) is a leftist thing. If CTV were conservative that would be OK. But that is a ridiculous assertion anyway. CTV is pretty centrist, probably left of center overall, and if even they were blatantly right wing that should be no problem. It is privately run and not a government entity. Likewise if CBC were privately funded they could be as left as they want. For me the bigger issue is that CBC is irresponsible. Some people will say CBC actually makes money. Or August might say there is a little less commercial time. But they are receiving funding from every single Canadian and using that funding in a way which is basically useless. I will wager that there are more Canadians who would rather sit through the endless commercials to watch an episode of CSI (although I am no fan myself), than those who would sit through an episode of The Hour or Dragon's Den or Little Mosque. I have watched The Hour and I think George Strombolopolous is a nice fellow and all, but his show does not do well. And it costs alot to produce. That is antithetical to good business and this is an example of how CBC spends money. If CBC wants tax payer dollars they should function in a way in which they provide the programming the majority of those tax payers would watch (even though they are probably mostly shows I would never watch). I also think CBC could stand to be cut in many aspects. Perhaps CBC radio....?

Add to that analogy the fact that the fellow with the bucket is continually threatening those with the thimbles that they will have to pay if they don't thimble the water out of there fast enough for his liking.

Exactly. And that's why it is a bad idea. Well you don't need to sign an international agreement which says that only certain countries must pay large amounts of money in penalty for carbon emissions in order to clean the air. Whether you want to clean the air, Kyoto (and no doubt its succesor treaty) is a foolish thing for us to partake in. Baird is doing the right thing by not signing us to a bum deal where we have to transfer cash to countries who do not get penalized if they fail to meet emissions targets. And if doing the right thing and the smart thing makes Canada unpopular I have no problem with that. Let's not let the fact that people over the globe are painting us as bad guys shake us from what is right. You know when you are a teenager and you want something from your parents and they won't budge on it, you sometimes might try guilting them and painting them as horrible oppressive bad guys to try to sway them. But a good parent does not give in to such tactics. If they do they will have no control over their children. And an add calling Harper evil is not a reason to sign an agreement. America has done a better job without Kyoto than we did. Better that we try to reduce emissions on our own than commit ourselves to a program which seems to fail and costs us big bucks.

I am not a church goer myself, but I defend it on here almost every chance I get. I have yet to see anything in Christian doctrine which would suggest that God provides protection if you put money in the collection plate. Here you must be referring to the sanctity of confession which is strictly Catholic.

The CBC is a publically funded government run broadcaster. It's job should not be to provide a balance against so-called Conservative reporting. It should be in the center and non-partisan. If it were a private, for-profit network then that would be acceptable.