nova_satori

We already get a huge amount of our oil from them anyway. Why delay your oil via a war? The US recieved very little of its oil from Iraq. Thus, to gain more resources without putting obstacles in front of ones you have, you attack someone who has what you want and that you aren't getting from them. This is a oil war. The ministry of oil was one of the few buildings that the US forces didn't let burn. While the ministry of health, military, etc all went up in flames, US marines were vigiliantly guarding the Ministry of Oil. What does that tell you? Lies eh? Hmmm..artifacts or oil? So going to war with false evidence, lies, disgruntled allies, all for resouces is good and ethical? Lies and propaganda is that we liberated iraq's people because they lived under a mad leader. Look at Iran, they have it far worse. And we have better evidence of their cladestine nuke programs. Guess who has more oil? iran or Iraq? Anyone who completely ignores the events of the US invasion is an idiot. Bush is going to win because no one else has the amount of money he has. But he'll pay through the nose for this election. Clinton waited for evidence and resonable belief before he went around the UN. He also didn't alienate the entire world by doing so. He did not freak out the world by flaunting US military might. He made coaltions without threats or bribes. He did not see a need to waste precious resources on lies. Clinton was a liar, about Monica . Bush screwed up badly. Time for change. Now let's see you refute that Derek, my ignorant American friend.

bbc link that i forgot. bbc

They are making Sea Raptors? That sounds rather funny. JSFs should be here within a few years. Not in manpower costs. And training. You don't need to build 4, two will suffice. And you could cut the number of escorts. hardly Dead Meat? More like a challenge Flanker 2 yes, but most guns are inaccurate on a long burst. However, it matters very little due to the extreme amount of lead you're throwing into a small area. US troops in Iraq favor the AK-47 over their M-16s, Iraq 1 the H&K G11 is much more expensive then a standard AK-47s The hind was never designed to fight other helios. It can kill infantry at faster rates then the Apache. However, incompetent Soviet pilots, hoving next to trees learned the lesson that the afgans gave. RPGs are perfectly capable of destroying helos. you can't expect a tank to do a plane's job. You can't expect a anti-ship missile to knock jets out of the air. Things were designed for a reason. usually a few. Foxbat's speed is enough to warrant its use. Can you find a faster interceptor? How the heck are you suppose to survive a nuclear blast? if the blast doesn't kill you, the fallout will quickly kill you or render you non-combantant, and most likely attachted to a bed for live. Most of the crews will be killed in the inital blast. Not only will they die, but the military will be forced to pay the families of those crews. Double whammy. Not only did vast amounts of capital disappear, but the payouts of that many crews will be astronomical.

Don't mind Craig, if he belives something is wrong, no amount of counter evidence will change his mind. Should "god" come down and tell him he's wrong, he won't change his mind. Yes and no. Yes he did benefit from Bush Sr program cuts, he did manage the economy well. 8 of the best years the American economy ever had. Craig is like Ashcroft, one so caught up in this beliefs, that nothing else matters/

Um, they are trying to make things better and overall cheaper. Striker Brigades are cheaper to run then the status quo. The Brits have been pushing this as a replacement for their sea harriers. US amphibious assualt ships like the Iwo Jima want the JSF as a replacement for their sea harriers. Sea harriers just suck period. The F-14 tomcat is schedualed to be decommished within the next 5 years, they aren't going to fill the hole with just super hornets. When they pay $120 for a hammer....one has to wonder. whimiscal? or logical? We've already given the Israelis and the Japanese enough of our tech, I see no reason to stop. Once again, corporate greed wins over logic.

I disagree. The US has been quitely pushing the Japanese for them to take over defense of their country entirely. They are ready for it. Their defense force is on par with the US. Their airforce already strikes fear into China. Their navy is strong, and their ground is quite capable. The US has quitely been pushing for Japan to go nuclear. PRC invasion of what? Japan? With the two amphibious ships? A nuclear Japan is china's worst nightmare. It is also a extremely useful pawn to force China to crack down on North Korea. It's a bit late for that. They already can hit Japan. Nuclear weapons are the most powerful tools of the apcolypse.

Downright Amazing That is simply amazing. I didn't know that many people disliked bush. Perhaps there is hope for the American public after all.

Derek, you're sounding like a American Craig. One so beliving in utter hatred, they are blinded by the facts and cannot even think of alternatives.

Quite well? Where quite well means horribly bad. Not only have we pissed off almost every moderate and Pro-US iraqi, we have incited them to ATTACK us. Anti-bathists, anti-al queada iraqis are ATTACKING US TROOPS. Not only are troops being killed on a daily basis, but Bus is asking for $87 BILLION to fix the mess he started. We've created the largest terrorist magnet on the face of the planet. It could be alot better. Bush is still in power...Saddam wasn't mad. He was a brutal, shrewed dictator, but hardly mad. The Iranian people are far more deserving. They'ved lived with the fanatical mullahs since the overthrow of the Shah. Their current protests, peaceful ones at that, are met with burtal force by Iranian authorties. Their student leaders are dragged off and never seen again. The univeristy of tehran has seen mutliple police and militray incrusions, often leaving the dorms destroyed. They WANT the Us to come. They WANT a democracy. They are willing to risk their lives for it. We KNOW they have Uranium accumulating in their storage facilties, the Russians recently terminted a pact which stated that all used fuel returns to Russia. Iran exports terror and acknowledges it. However, they have less OIL. *ponder* Listen to the facts before you write anyone off.

lol. Imagine how bad they would have been spanked if they gave away the "anarchist's cookbook."

Uh....right. Like attack boats, La, Virginia and Seawolf subs are Slower right? And Missile cruisers are slower too right? lol. The Aegis Guided Missile Cruiser is more advanced then a standard Nimitz. Seawolfs as well, the sea shadow too. Carriers can't even top 40 knots. That is NOT going to out run a nuke ladden missile. A ship doesn't just APPEAR in a dock does it? It must enter a canal. That canal leads to the ocean.....i'm sure you can figure out the rest. 200 miles is a bit overexergated. And they might not be sending F-14s in the next 2-6 years. They'll be sending Superhornets. Tomcats are scheduled to be decommishened. The JSF should be entering production, if it already hasn't. Now if only the comanche would enter production, we can get rid of these Cobras.

Lies right? More lies right?

Let's get this straight first. History as we know it is bogus. It is simply a mismatched puzzle made from pieces that "historians" use to make meaning from raw data. No history is entirely correct. No one knows anything about history, we simply BELIEVE what we think is true about history. Your bias aganist everything I say is your belief that liberals (and often conservatives) are warping history to their advantage. Of course, EVERYONE does this. On a higher level, no one knows anything. We simply believe much. Truth exists independently of us. And that college would be.... I don't like your interpretation because it leaves out critical parts most historians agree on. Like I said before, it matters not what party you belong to, everyone distorts history. To say that conservatives don't distort history is ridiculous.

So there's no problem with Bush's cut taxes then asking for $87 billion? Cut revenue at the same time as raking up a $400 billion debt is a good thing? This debt will be carried on the backs of our grandchildren. And their grandchildren. You do remember that Clinton had the largest surplus in US history. Bush may have the largest debt in history. You disagree that all social programs should be expanded? Politics 101: Lesson 1: Don't spend more money then you have Lesson 2: Save for inveitable disasters The class every politian fails.

Read part of this book New York would be a nice target, LA as well. Boston perhaps. In a military harbor, it would be difficult, but the ship has too moor doesn't it?

Contra 1 Contra 2 Contra 3 Not good for Ray-Gun. lol.

Dentonate a nuclear missile to take out 25+ multiple rentry vehicles? Huh? If they can hit a reactor on a LA class, they can fit in on a illustrious. Fuel and stores can be carried on supply vessels the Us already has. Sukhoi-27/35, absoultely wonderful plane. If kept in good shape, and pilot decently trained, it can be a major threat to almost every fighter in today's world. It's not the Fulcrum's big brother, it's his child. Ak-47. Wonderful. Cheap, doesn't jam like the M-16, mass produced, doesn't require any traing, medium kickback, accurate in bursts, fully auto. What else can you ask for? Hind. Essentially a A-10, but a helicopter, without the depeleted uranium cannon. But lots of missiles! Mig (?) Foxbat?. Fastest fighter, meant to shoot down US valkyrie bombers (that never materliazed). Sickingly fast. BAD: Just about everything else. The point is to remove the blame from anyone. You can trace where it came from, but can you trace who launched it? The plane is long gone. Smaller warhead? The capacity of many medium-large cargo planes can fit a good size ICBM. Granted, without a AN-124, you're not gonna fit the largest ICBM, but even still, it would work. Not nearly accurate? Depends who's missile it is. American missile shields are effectively weak. Patriot anti-air batteris were never designed to defend aganist that. The Israeli Arrow i believe incoprates better tracking, but i'm not sure. Starwars missile shield is a sham. Simply put, reagan couldn't do it, bush isn't going to. They haven't even hit a 80% success rate. You're ignoring the human cost. A nimtiz carrier has over 5,000 crewmen. The number of escorts may bring that number to 6,000 crewman. The loss of that many well trained toops would be astronomical. The amount of money and time spent to train each person would easily cost another carrier alone. Losing 72-144 trained pilots would be a major blow. Pilots are the most expensive people to train. Losing that many, well qualified pilots, and their potentials to trains others would be horrendous. Also, a loss of a carrier group would strain the US carrier fleets. Also, it would make the brass afraid of sending them out. Highly unlikely that they would do this to a hundred protesting Japanese in Yokosuko. The bad PR would be more then the President could stomach. It also have a huge breakdown after 9/11. Our intelligence does suck. The CIA and FBI got huge beatdowns by the government for their failures. The Washington Post has a article on US funding Russian military ops to retrieve WGU (weapons grade Uranium) from insecure former Soviet stockpiles. We're still working on it. $400,000. The dirty bomb concept is something we're going to live with (and possibly die from) for the rest of our lives. Mossad is top notch. We have a LONG way before we get to their level. No, i'm an American.

Hugo: I am by no way saying this is the Jew's fault. If it's anyone's, it's the UK and the UN's fault for this whole mess. I suppose that a state wouldn't really help alot, given the current situation. It's hard to fix things when the militants have a the ultimate goal of complete destruction of Isreal. Prosperous in comparsion to its neighbors. However, one would wonder if a dictator ship was installed, things would be more fluid. The labor party seriously doesn't like Sharon, and there is much disunity within the Israeli government. However, i'm curious, since the rise of the Jihad, hasn't Israel gone into the red? I know Saudi Arabia just recently pulled its self back into the black, thanks to a few rational minded princes in the house of Saud. I suppose, but I see a huge clash of religions standing in its way. What I don't understand is how Israel is going to provide for the people. Their current water levels are already in trouble, and their desalination plants are overworked. However, this seems to be the problem all over the middle east. When war is on, things like that get pushed to the back, but should peace ever come...Israel has alot to work on. What bothers me, is if Hitler could have found another way to band his people together, and still used the Jews. Jews at the time were wealth, educated and skilled. Adding their industrial might and wealth, and brains to his empire would have undoubtly prolonged the war, if not ended it in the favor. Few people will say and think that Jews are worthless. I am not one of them. In the minds of the international yes, but to many palestinians, Israel has done so much wrong to them, that suicide bombings are the only way to get back. Vicious cycle. Then the US is a pussy. Contra anyone? What is the right way? Argue with Sharon? LOL. that will do alot good There are plenty of gun battles in that area. The Isreal push into Jenin Time Article, was a large gun battle, as well as suicide and remote bombings. They are fighting the way you described. Please keep the swearing to a minium if you have to, and if you can, cease the usage. True. They also need functioning police and civil services. the IDF likes to blow those up. I read somewhere [wish i remembered where] that American Adults can recite the Bible but they are illiterate. Better alive and imprisoned than as a martyr for the disguntled of the Middle East to rally upon.

Possibly, but seeing how the US's fate is more or less tied to both of them, I don't really see a problem. Japanese make things smaller and more efficent. Isreali make stuff that kicks serious butt and has the a huge test range (the whole country anyone?). US starts with the idea.

Japanese Make everything better! The US should given the Japanese weapons to refine, then let the Isrealis test them, then send them back to Japan for further refinment!

Whistler: True, unless we go to war with the UK, we don't need anti-sub warfare. China is using old Akulus and Romeos. So scared. Even Taiwan isn't that advanced. Of course, but this is all hypothetical, it could happen. The defenses on a US ship is much greater then they were when the USS stark was nailed by a exocet, nevertheless, is it a large threat to US assets. I think the US should start building smaller Carriers, like the British Illustrious class or the Italian Garbaldi class. Should this happen, the overall loss of manpower and equipment would be less then a loss of a Nitmiz Supercarrier, and her escorts. About HOE, did they ever manage a way to take out 25+ MRVs? I'm curious. I'll go look for the supposed Russian missile that can fly a 10-20 feet above the ocean. I'll have to find the russian military guy on previous forum I posted a while ago. For the most part. Russia has produced some of the greatest military pieces, and some of the worse. The guidance interference could be circumevented by programming a time explosion. Just get to the general area and blow...not much expertise needed for that. it's not like a carrier can move very quickly to get out of blast range. That is probably why China isn't bothering to work on the Minsks. Good luck attacking Taiwan. You're gonna need the largest taskforce ever. Well there is another method that already in the works. A medium sized cargo plane, like a Greyhound, could be outfitted with nuclear launch capiablity. In theory, the plane opens the cargo door, slides the nuke out, the nuke opens its paracutes and floats warhead up down to a certain attitude, where it detaches its chuts, and exgnites. Essentially you can launch a small ICBM from the middle of the ocean. If you know the coordiantes, 6-10 MRVs, from above, is signifitely different to defend then missiles from a boat or a plane. I still believe that they are "putting all your eggs in one basket." should one ever be lost, the magnitude of the loss would be astronomical.

But just because he does it doesn't mean we have to do it as well. The pursuit of wealth without responsibility will ultamitely see us all dead.

Neither was it Israel's, if we wanted to get down to legal rights, it was Britain's. The palestinians were living there before the creation of the isreal state. They "owned" the land (if you can really own land in the grand scheme of things). However, the land was used and lived on by the Palestinans. Many of them lost their property. No they didn't. The original land, much of which was occuptied by Palestinans, was given to Israel via the UN and Britain, after WWII. The Israelis gained land through wars with arabs, but that is irrevelent to the topic at hand. Much of the land that Isreali live on was once owned by Palestinians. They should give up their chance to regain their property and former lives? Would YOU give up your land and freedom simply because some idiot said so? It's VERY clear you have never spoken with any Middle Easterner. The vast majority of them agree when a Arab or a Muslim fights for their freedom, they are considered terrorists. When a westerner does it, the rest of the world considers him/her a freedom fighter. And you would want them to fight for their freedom, but when a muslim or arab does it, you condemn them. I don't need to. You should look at your own post and be able to tell you know nothing. Hugo: Do you think that a creation of a Palestinian state, with aid from America would be the best idea in the long run? Obviously, you can't have that contrast between people, but the Palestianes lost much land and wealth, it seems only fair to at least try to make it up.

WHAT? What do you think we are here to do? LEARN SOMETHING PERHAPS? Expand our minds? What are you crazy people talking about! We don't need evidence (there's a funny comic about this one, iit's by tom tomorrow), evidence is for sissies! lol.

I think they fear nuclear weapons. I wouldn't declare independence if I knew they might use nukes on me. I suppose they would lose a war of attrition, PLA has the edge in numbers, and Taiwan lacks strike capability. I think the US would sac Taiwan for China. Bottom line wins the war with ethnics and morality. I think the Taiwanese are far more likely to adopt a internaional trade scheme then the mainland. It took a few months for piracy to be squashed in Taiwan, it's gonna take 50 YEARS for that to happen in mainland China.