Higgly

I cannot tell you how pleased I am that it upsets you. I'll have to keep it up.

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So if the Liberals didn't get results right away, it's because they are no good, but if the Conservatives don't get results right away, it's because it would hurt the economy.

As usual, the neocons spin the point into a blur. If you follow the trajectory of human development over the centuries, you will find that in just about every century, life has gotten better for larger numbers of people.

Kyoto at least had goals and was a widely accepted protocol. The Bush protocol is just putting lipstick on a pig.

What is in place now comes from the Bush "government". I didn't say anyhting about how Kyoto got rejected.

So you feel that the US has more right to be there? The Iran/Iraq war aside, can you provide some credible source about the hundreds of thousands you say Iran has killed? Enquiring minds would like to know.

Steve has just re-affirmed his commitment to the George Bush protocol for the environment and has stated that the Kyoto protocol is now "outdated". The George Bush environmental priocotol, adopted by Canada, the US, and Ausaralia as well as (no surprise here) China and India, states that signatories can set their own targets and that they do not have to meet those targets. Good old Steve. You go boy.

No, crazy is invading a country with no justification and causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. Sane is coming to your enemy's home turf and trying to engage them in a dialogue.

Ancient societies have a way of surprising you. Take India and China, for example. So people in developing countries don't work, don't pay for their food, don't go to school? I'm just going to put you in the "still living with my mom" pile. And I have reported you.

So we have customs that say land ownership is OK and therefor to hell with them and their dumb ideas? They are saying to hell with us and our dumb ideas. What a surprise.

They've been working in Leamington for years. picking tomatoes and making Heinz Ketchup. The question is whether we can control it and keep track of who they are. I'm all for that.

Hey, they had those things under Saddam, if that's your measure. So in your books, every developing country should expect to be subservient and put up with anything the west gets it into its fool head just because it doesn't have reliable electricity? Good luck selling that one in Vietnam.

Might be the best thing that ever happened to you. I mean, you in particular, ScottSA. The tobacco industry has been obfuscating and lying about research into its product for years. The anti-drug creeps have been shining a light on pot for years and have yet to show the same level of damage as tobacco or booze. I would vote Green on that issue, but it is not the most important thing to me. I agree with them on Education, but that is not the most important thing to me. The most important things to me are public health care, the environment, and responsible fiscal management. I have yet to see a financial scandal from the Ontario Liberals. John Tory is talking about private health care. I don't care if it works somewhere else. I think we can be the model. As I have been told so many times by the seniors in my family: if you haven't got your health, you've got nothing. The sad tale of health-driven bankruptcies in the US really worry me. Firstly, health care costs were the biggest source of bankruptcy in the US. Then George Bush legislated that nobody can declare bankruptcy as a result of healthcare expenses. Very, very troubling. Life is being sold to the highest bidder. I like the Greens' stand on the Environment, but they just don't have any sort of track record. I was hoping the new electoral model might help, but Argus has shown that it is replete with 'gotchas'. Tory has absolutely nothing to bring to the table in terms of the enviornment and he is just the kind of guy I would never trust to come up with a solution. As far as this whole faith-based education thing goes, it is just going farther down the wrong road. I agree with Alan Borovoy and the Civil Liberties Union. It's time to merge the Catholic School system with the public school system. But for me, that is not the biggest issue. Responsible fiscal management, the environment, and public health care. Two out of three for the Liberals. One out of three for the Conservatives (and that's if I trust John Tory, who has no experience as a political leader and next to no experience as a corporate leader). The NDP is too attached to the idea that the government should interfere in the economy, and sooner or later, that is just not going to fly.

I think that this was a huge missed opportunity. Instead of Bollinger hectoring the man like some Shia cleric (and that is exactly what Bollinger's intro reminded me of), he had the power to have debaters waiting in the audience to engage him. A real lost opportunity. This happened in one of the greatest academic instituins in the US, a forum which I have always believd was the Ark of the Covenant when it comes to free speech. Very, very disappointed. I am with Buffycat. The man may not be right, but he's got more balls than his enemies.

If you are here, maybe you bother because you think it might be possible to state your case so convincingly that you might convert somebody to your viewpoint. This is the core of democracy and it's best weapon: free speech.

You go girl.

Momo? Museum Of Modern Obituaries? Mister Osama My Obligee? My Overwhelmingly Magical Oats?

Good point. It was a real treat to watch the US and Europe slug it out over farm subsidies. Take coffee as another example. You can sell your coffee to the coffee boss, or you can try to sell your coffee for what it is actually worth. If you sell to the coffee boss, you sell cheap and you live in poverty. Sort of like Juan Valdez, that smiling fool who rides around on a donkey while the rest of the world drives trucks. No wait. Juan Valdez does not ride the donkey. The donkey is carrying the boss' coffee. Juan walks in front of the donky - and he tips his hat as he goes by. Isn't trhat sweet? If you sell your coffee for what it costs to grow plus enough for you and your family to enjoy a modest but happy life - say like a truck driver in Canada, then you have a hard time. This is why there are coffee shops around Toronto who sell "Fair Trade" cofee. Tell me, M.Dancer, do you buy "Fair Trade" coffee?

Yeah in fact he's not a lot different than Harris. Harris was referred to as an idealogue. He had this fixed set of ideas he was determined he was gonna implement, even though he had very little experience to understand how these ideas would reverberate down through the system. Look at Walkerton. Tory is the same. As far as his experience at Rogers goes, Tory was junior exec. He has never actually run a company. Tory is indeed there because of his connections and because the Tories were desperate to put on a new face. I doubt Tory will even win his own riding. He's in deep doo-doo, especially after Alan Borovoy launched his campaign to rid the province of Catholic schools. I agree with Borovoy, but I can see the whole electorate taking a step back and saying "Whoa! Time to take a pause and think about all of this."

Well in fact I can. The car bomb kills lots of people (hundreds, well than that's just you awfulizing again). Killing a leader generally results in civil war, which usually kills one hell of a lot more. Look at Iraq (smug chuckle). Of course dealing with the guy as a leader, coming to terms with the fact that you've lost this round and that a brighter day might one day dawn, is beyond the neocon mindset. Better to kill, kill, kill, until everybody who disagrees with you is dead. That's the way to bring in democracy, by gum. Then we're gonna have free speech. The we're gonna have freedom of worship. Then we're gonna have... Walmart!

I myself am not convinced that this is a good idea, but I see that M.Dancer, as usual, is resorting to "awfulizing". The usual neocon chicken-little claptrap.

Holy cow! I am defeated! Here's one for you... Christians slaughter Christians in Europe! Germany invades Poland! So your thesis is that because the west cannot be implicated in everything, it is reponsible for nothing? Maybe you should be posting in ScottSA's forum.

Amazing. You jump from a democratic system with elected representatives but no party politics to what? Cambodia under Pol Pot? Russia under Stalin? Good grief. This is a classic neocon methodology. Immediately awfulize something to the most unimaginably horrible outcome in order to further your argument.

I wonder if Al Quaida uses these sorts of justifications? "Don't worry guys. It's not terrorism. It's realpolitik."