KrustyKidd

So it's just a numbers game to you? Doesn't matter who is right or wrong. Incredible. Kuzadd believes Israel never wants peace at all rather wishes to continue war simply to steal land. I believe that Israel wishes peace and will, as they have proven time and time again, give up land if assured of security. You on the other hand are of the opinion that for some strange reason they wish to continue being attacked and not even be able to justify Kuzadd's fantasy of stealing land nor my idea of having security as they would perpetually be subject to attacks from land they gave back which would be settled by pissed off palestinians. Strange outlook indeed. Kuzadd actually makes sense compared to you after reflecting on it.

No. This is a one sided peacenik jerk fest with anonymous disgruntled soldiers trapping off. I note the top brass are not given much play in your article. Why not? Veteran IDF Units? Holy!

You of course mean the organizations that are predisposed to concentrate on established democracies perceived violations as well as the ones who allow their equipment to be used to aid in terror attacks as well far left web sites who grab disgruntled soldiers to 'anonomously' provide testimony. That's worth gold until you actually have to prove something. Now prove something rather than just bitch about it as we don't run on hersay.. I do have to commend you as you are at least not coming right out and saying that Israel has no intention whatsoever of having peace like your pal Kuzadd. She has invalidated any credibility when she said that thus proving herself to be simply ranting rather than actually attempting to change something.

Holy! No wonder you are so messed up. You don't read newspapers.

Yes I am. I don't accept anonymous reports. I do know however that Hamas attacked Israel from the midst of their civilians thus placing every man woman and child in the middle of a war zone subject to the ensuing battle when the Israelis came to protect their people. If there is something wrong with that assessment please let me know.

Dub, you seem to believe anything that is anti Israel. I, on the other hand, wait for official determinations. What we know so far is that hamas recklessly invited attack on their people by hiding their military amongst civillians and firing at Israel, Israel responded in order to stop those attcks on their people and then the propaganda came forth. Hamas could have easily avoided this entire problem by not attacking, not hiding among their civilians and not basing weapons caches, firing positions and utilizing human shields. At the moment, the official line from Israel is that no violations have occurred. I heard from anonymous sources that these guys were all full of shit.

Show us where I am not Dub.

That's what happens when you fire all the rabbis that say things like; "You're going to die horribly" "Don't fight, you're wrong" "We're such losers" "Hamas is right and we're wrong" "Surrender at the first opportunity" "God hates you"

OMG! What the hell was Hamas thinking by starting all this and firing rockets to invite IDF troops to attack in an effort to stop them? And firing as well as hiding and storing weapons in conjested areas where women and chidlren are? Thank God the casualties were as low as they were.

Why would you think that?

Thought it was going to be a two liner at least. Oh well.

Holy! Thanks for verifying these terrible deeds Dub. I knew that Hamas had no compunction of using terrorism however, to deliberately incite a war and bring it purposefully onto their own people by staging attacks, stockpiling logistics in the middle of civilian populations is heinous beyond belief. A crime of gigantic proportions. .Yes, that would be Hamas. Who cares who gets killed, just get the propaganda out. The moment they fired into Israel from the midst of their own population they not only failed to protect their own people but incited retaliation. That only 900 of them were killed shows the restraint Israel used as those numbers, historically would have been triple or even ten times that at least.

I agree Benny. Might have to bring out the big guns ........ THE THREE LINE POST!!!!!!!!!!!

Syria, Jordan and Egypt were pretty cool to tell the truth. Not repressive like Saudi Arabia.

No doubt. I've never said anything good about israel nor anything bad about Palestinians. I simply try to explain why Israel does things and mention what Hamas does and to Dub, I'm an Israeli apologist. To tell the truth, from the two years i spent over there i liked most Arabs and Palestinians as they were far more friendly and found the Israelis a bit obnoxious.

You said So as O asked; Why did you stop rooting for Israel and when? Hamas attacks from Gaza, not Israel, hence, they attack from the midst of their own people in a crowded space that only somebody willing to put their own population at risk would do. And yes, Palestinians do voluntarily shield their soldiers. Hamas does nothing to dissuade these actions and in fact actively encourages it and even announces on tv where people may go to be more effective in this action. Provide the link for this please. All I heard was a shoot first policy with the caveat not to shoot innocents. Of course not, that's why you rooted for Israel at one point but can't tell us when or why you turned and now hate them and only point out their perceived atrocities as you state below. Well, they had asked for Hamas to stop nicely many times, but rockets kept coming down on their civilians. Your fake neutrality is a joke.

Israel has yet to start a war (even the 67 war was started by Arabs violating the armistice and placing armies in an attack position on Israel's borders) so I take that to mean Iran is concerned about Israel defending themselves if and when Iran attacks. Pretty silly Benny.

Israel erected this wall in order to enhance their security which it did. They have the power to raise it, lower it, build it bigger or take it down completely. Don't you think that just possibly you might consider their point of view in this issue? Just a little maybe?

I will. I'm sure Bonom will agree with me. Tango A security wall. Israelis on one side and those who wish to, and do, attack it on the other. Tango In defensive wars where they were attacked and beat back those who wished to destroy them. Tango Yes. There have been peace initiatives where settlers have been evicted by the army. Quite emotional but, proves that Israel will move if there is reason. for a total return, Palestinians have to prove that they have stopped being a threat. Tango They've built lives, invested money and blood on that land that the Palestinians refused to accept sixty years ago. Tango Legal borders? If it means total peace then I would say yes. If not then just do what Kuzadd figures and accept that Israel only wants land, not peace and screw the Palestinians forever. I think your problem is not understanding what happened Tango. Israel accepted partition, the Palestinians did not and immediately went to war against Israel with the rest of the Arabs and, to this day, have still not been able to come to grips with the idea of having an peaceful coexistence with Israel. You side with Palestinians which is fine however, until there is a peaceful relationship, they will get nothing. They've done nothing peaceful as an entire people except make token gestures and then, another faction breaks those treaties. From Israel's standpoint, sixty years and these people still can't get it together to actually want peace enough to be at peace so screw them, somebody may as well make use of the land. Of course, you figure that killing people is a viable solution instead of making peace and any action to stop that killing is wrong so, I guess we are at odds.

A few questions Tango if you don't mind; What do you admire about Israel and what did you admire about it and then stopped? Why did you stop rooting for Israel and when? Given that Hamas attacks from the midst of their own people and then hides among same, how would expect Israel to stop them from murdering their own people? Why do you consider collateral casualties murder when it is not deliberate but done in the course of taking out militants hiding amongst the population?

If you believe Israel is not interested in peace whatsoever then why do even bother to discuss this? I mean, if that is your belief then you are simply ranting in every post rather than working towards a possible solution.

Probably less than Muslim Jets over Israel and what happens next. How long till showtime anyhow?

They have to refuel which is a logistical nightmare and increases the time over hostile nations as well as adding slower aircraft to the mix. On top of that the targets are not simply one and in the open but many and very hardened.

If you truly believe this claptrap then I suppose there is no point in discussing it then is there? Israel wins. End of story. I suppose you will remain here complaining needlessly and, we will know that you are just ranting as nothing can change. I, on the other hand know that if this is what Israel intends, they would simply finish the wall and live large. They haven't though have they?

Even if this were to be true, how would the Palestinians know this and, why would they not celebrate the removal of troops and then explain to the world that Israel is going to attack in the near fuure without justification rather than providing unarguable justification for the attack? It is Israel's security that Israel is primarily concerned with and, since Israel is the one who can provide what the Palestinians desire would it not make sense to address their concerns? Try 'trade in return for stable guaranteed peace' instead. Work any better?