trex

Sounds like an admission that they have a problem, and need to make some changes to prevent it from happening again- RCMP to review Taser policy in wake of airport death: commissioner VANCOUVER (CBC) - Four Mounties involved in the fatal takedown of a Polish immigrant at Vancouver airport have been assigned to other duties as the RCMP reviews its policy on the use of Tasers, Commissioner William Elliott said Saturday. In a statement, Elliott called last month's death of Robert Dziekanski "tragic" and extended his condolences to Dziekanski's family on behalf of the police force. "For the time being, the four RCMP officers directly involved in the events ... have been assigned to other duties," Elliott said in a statement. "The RCMP has also undertaken an examination of our policies and procedure relating to conducted energy weapons - commonly called 'Tasers' - and will be providing a report to the Minister of Public Safety." Currently there are four probes underway into Dziekanski's death. The B.C. coroner, the RCMP, the public complaints commissioner for the RCMP and the Vancouver Airport Authority are all conducting their own investigations. A public inquest into the incident is expected to begin next spring or early next summer, according to the province's coroner.

If Harpers government falls he can still run for US President. Should be no problem, he has a dual citizenship

Maybe so but most police officers are in excellent physical condition and would have less problems recovering from it than someone who has underlying health problems. The cops may feel its not so bad to be tasered, since they were able to withstand it so why not use it on anybody who is perceived to be a problem. And when they do use it, they give it a litle extra. Zapping four times, I wonder if thats recommended in the user manual.

Sick man... So they knew exactly who they were dealing with

I believe, his "mother" is an old lady. He was not a very young man. Seems un-necessary for mommy to pick up a 40 year old, generally. And he looked alot older than that, to me. ---- Yeah about that taser incident, I believe he was being zapped multiple times... more than once is what they are saying and that Taser seems to me just to be a dangerous device. In fact I don't really see how a Taser CAN be safe. It only takes a few milli-amps of electric current through your body to upset the heartbeat rate, so that the heart begins beating erratically, out of control. Now do that to a person who has a weak, stressed heart to begin with (ie. 70% of americans, about 50% 0f canadians) and see what happens. As I understand it, the Taser has 50,000 volts but at a lower current than would be considered "dangerous". Still, hitting someone with it multiple times is not only sadistic, but could be dangerous. I believe I had also read some days ago when this happened, that they called for an ambulance which had to come from outside the airport... I'm not sure about it but the question should be raised, since most airports have medical personnel directly on site, 24/7. Some research below gives a few interesting asides not yet bubble to the surface of mass-media consciousness... ;^) ---------- Dziekanski, who spoke only Polish, arrived on a plane from Frankfurt, and became agitated after spending up to ten hours in the secure baggage area, where his mother mistakenly told him to wait. A security guard compounded the confusion by insisting he was speaking Russian. In a tragic irony, translators now say the man was actually relieved when he spotted four Mounties approaching him. He reportedly said he was happy to see them because he thought they had come to save him. But seconds after they arrived, Dziekanski could be seen writhing on the ground in pain following the first of two jolts. Not long after he was pronounced dead. A lawyer for the dead man's mother says the hasty police action leaves him astonished. "I was expecting to see a confrontation and a discussion and things to go sideways, and then the Tasering. That's not what you see," said attorney Walter Kosteckyj. http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_16797.aspx ------------------------------ Here is the timeline of events after he was tasered. This is about the emergency response- 1:30 - A male has been tasered and is unconscious but breathing. Ambulance is called; 1:32 -- The log reports that Dziekanski has lost consciousness. 1:36 - A Code 3 is issued to paramedics, indicating someone is unconscious. 1:44 - Paramedics arrive, 12 minutes after Dziekanski, 40, first slipped into unconsciousness. Sources told CTV B.C. that a Code 3 call should have been issued to paramedics immediately after the individual became unconscious. However, it wasn't until four minutes later that the Code 3 went out. It also reports that an on-site emergency responder had told the team at the airport to hold off on immediately upgrading the status of the call. http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories ------------------- This guy actually tried to help him, he worked there regularly and he called the RCMP when he noticed something was wrong with the guy: Witness blames RCMP, Vancouver airport for death of Tasered man Lorne Meltzer, a corporate valet, told CBC News Thursday he was at the airport picking up a client just before 1:30 a.m. Sunday and found himself facing Robert Dziekanski. He said he tried to calm an agitated Dziekanski, 40, in the public arrivals area and unwittingly let the Polish immigrant back into the secure international arrivals area, using his pass to open the one-way doors. Meltzer has a security pass to the secure international arrivals area, as a personal assistant to a Vancouver businessman who often has clients fly into town. "I think the responsible parties are the Vancouver Airport and the RCMP for not having other negotiating tactics once he's at the heightened state," said Meltzer, who was the person who called in RCMP. He said he clearly warned them the man didn't speak English. Meltzer claimed the officers gave Dziekanski two commands in English and within seconds Tasered him after he held a stapler in an apparent threatening manner. "He [Dziekanski] raised the stapler in the air and they [RCMP] said, 'Put your hands on the desk,' in English," Meltzer said. Meltzer said the RCMP were too hasty to use the Taser and he refutes the police claim that the area was too crowded to use pepper spray, because "it was empty." Dziekanski was Tasered by RCMP and later died. Police and a witness conflict in the number of jolts the man is alleged to have received. RCMP insist that the man was zapped two times, but Sima Ashrafinia, who was at the airport and recorded the incident on her cellphone, told CBC News on Monday that RCMP officers stunned Dziekanski four times. An autopsy by the B.C. Coroner's Service on Tuesday did not find the cause of death, citing no trauma or disease was found. Officials are still waiting for the results of toxicology tests and microscopic examinations. http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/...er.html?ref=rss

By saying that Jesus himself is not the messiah, he agrees with the Jewish view that the Messiah is not yet come. I would hazard to guess that the messiah is actually the Second Coming of Christ, and from here we go into the apocalypse and the end times, make ready the way for the lord and his new kingdom, ans like that! Republicans love Israel. And the apocalypse... He also attacks Jimmy Carter for blaming Israel in Carters own book. How dare he, godless sinner Democrat that he is!

I was curious as to whether Murloney lied during his former ordeal with the airbus scandal. It only took a minute to find this out- Mulroney testified under oath that he "never had any dealings" with Schreiber, knew him only "peripherally" and they had a cup of coffee "once or twice." According to the February 2006 CBC story : "In 1999, a spokesman for Mulroney denied any money was exchanged. But in 2003, Mulroney indirectly acknowledged he did receive money from Schreiber but as payment for his help in promoting Schreiber's pasta business." In his 2004 book A Secret Trial, former law professor William Kaplan describes Mulroney's testimony as evasive, incomplete and misleading --but concludes that it did not rise to the level of perjury. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Mulrone...hreiber__affair ------ I did not look elsewhere for other sources to back up these claims. But if you put two and two together it does make sense... Yes I do recall that he denied having any dealings with Schreiber before, thats why I was surprised to hear him now admitting that he did accept $300K. He seems to think that since he's paid his taxes, all should be well, but I tend to think not... If the above information is correct Mr. Mulroney may have at least committed perjury.

Yet ironically euthanasia IS a crime in the United States, I believe... although here death is chosen by free will, by the individual, here the state does not allow them to make such a choice. The exact opposite of the view that, the state should have no right to make these choices for the person, as to who live and who dies.

Dont stick your neck out or it will get chopped off. I understand... I appreciate your advise. It was very impertinent of me to challenge the rules. I guess the closet anarchist just came out in me. No worries now though, sheep may safely graze once again. There is no wolf here

Is there a link for this information, Topaz?

Ok, I did not know you felt so strongly about this. I will try my best to do so. Truth is I did not know there was already another thread in the two incidents that I have done this. I am truly sorry for any harm I may have casued, in so doing

I hope it will be a good fight, however as you point out it could be quickly swept under the rug for self-protecting interests. And yes, their hands are dirty on each side. I am all for investigating and charging anyone in government who is directly involved in such improprieties. Let them be outed, to every man and woman, their parties wiped out and if necessary a completely new generation of leaders brought in new parties. Better that than the stinking pool of corruption that pervades our system now, with these characters. PS Yes, I can dream...

Intersting who is calling for bannings here. Certainly someone should not be banned for a mistake. It really harms no one. Why should it matter? It's no less a valid thread for discussion. Or is this a way to suppress the topic, without taking it fully on? I think it's fine, it's not the same as the other thread. As the subtitle clearly indicates, Herper may have been complicit. I am shocked that Murloony would really be that stupid to get his hands dirty with a wheeler and dealer... yet his submission of a tax form subsequesntly for the amount seems to be almost an admission of guilt. He is now poison, anethema to Harper. The conservative melodrama continues, alot of the secrets hidden in the closet, and, under a blanket too, apparently, these crotchety old conservatives...

Everybody get out of the way, a big man is about to fall down. Thats wht Harper is trying to stand clear. He might get sucked in the undertow

All in good time, friends, all in good time...

Hello there. Are you the local comic? I will provide the answer. But not in this thread... let us just say, the current prime minister deserves to make his own headlines... We only want the people to know the real truth of what happened, once and for all. Harper may even be in a conflict of interest by being the Prime Minister at this point I think Dion is gonna ride this one ... oh yes... and I kind of like that, a "Bolt out of the Blue"...

I'm sorry, but that would be off-topic. It really requires the start of a new thread...

One thing is clear: the cozy relationship between Harper and Mulroney is over. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/071110/..._mulroney_split Yes and it raises the question, "Was Harper a Crook?"

Why, when he has been undermined every step of the way. Just because he's not a movie star good looking guy like Harper, and speaks english poorly, that does not mean he's stupid. So he has these fairly trivial flaws, perhaps we just need to get over that. But what he needs to do is talk about issues and here is one example. Lets just say if he could come up with more like this it could change my mind about him. He was chosen over Ignatieff and others, and was recommended by Cretien. As a leader he may simply be the more intellectual type, as pposed to a shomanship style of bluff and obfuscattion. Do not let the media glam of polkitics influence you, known as US- Hollywood style. Beatuful people do not always make good leaders, simply because they dazzle. I know it's a long shot with this guy, as someone said, his spark is too few and far between. If I were him I woul put Ignatieff in the closet for a while, make it clear whos the top dog. At least move him one row back. Let Dion sit in the front all by himself, and speak only french if necessary, so long as he make sense! Somebody needs to make sense... among these parliamentarians

I felt that the fact Harper was implicated deserves its own headline, as a thread. I don't see it as the same thread as about the old BM story, this is a whole new and interesting twist. I fail to see why people are concerned about it anyway, if it increases the discussion and the number of posts, why merge it into an old thread, which is like chicken soup replite with off topics and tangents? I want people to see the headine, Harper implicated! Thats why I start a new thread. I should get the chance to make a rebuttal beforee stuff is moved, so I can explain myself. Oh well its hard to figure it all out sometime, I know...

TORONTO - At least a million Canadians ignored by the federal Conservatives would be lifted out of poverty within five years if the Liberals form the next government, Leader Stephane Dion said Friday. It's the first step in a "war on poverty never seen before in Canada's history," Dion pledged in a campaign-style speech in Toronto, surrounded by prominent Liberals. But the bold promise, modelled after a plan led by former British prime minister Tony Blair, also hinted at a broader strategy aimed at vaulting the Liberals past the governing Conservatives in the polls by seducing socially minded voters of all political stripes. "As a Canadian, I am embarrassed by it," Dion said of the sheer number of poor people living in Canada. "As a Liberal, I cannot accept it. And as prime minister, I will correct it." http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/071109/...iberals_poverty --------------------- This is what the Liberals need to do, talk about real policy not play the games with Harper and chumps. If Dion is as impressive as they say he is, lets hear him out. Perhaps he is not as charismatic a leader as Harper, who is mostly all show and bluster, there could be something worth listening to in his message. I hope he will continue to put out strong ideas like this, and prove everybody wrong about himself. We don't need a hollywood movie star and we dont want to go backwards in time, which the extreme right would lead us toward. PS Ignatieff should now be put in the second row. EDIT This was the Opening Post of a redundant thread: Dion would aggressively target poverty which has now been merged into this current thread.

Fri Nov 9 OTTAWA - In an abrupt about-face, Prime Minister Stephen Harper announced a review of Brian Mulroney's dealings with a controversial businessman and cut off contact with the man he valued as a political adviser. Friday's reversal came just a day after new allegations from Karlheinz Schreiber threatened to draw Harper himself into the tangled Mulroney-Schreiber-Airbus affair. The same prime minister who had responded with taunts and threats to counter-investigate former Liberal prime ministers was delivered a bolt out of the blue on Friday afternoon. Schreiber's affidavit says: "(Mulroney) told me that he was going to meet with the Right Honourable Stephen Harper, the current Prime Minister of Canada, by the end of July, 2006, at Harrington Lake, and that he (Mr. Mulroney) was going to show to Mr. Harper a copy of Exhibit 15 (the letter) to show that he and I were on good terms." The prime minister told a news conference that he indeed had the Mulroneys over around that time. "My family and I did host the former prime minister and his family for a social occasion at Harrington Lake in August 2006 at our invitation," Harper said. "We did not discuss Mr. Mulroney's dealings with Mr. Schreiber during that visit." Dion says the allegation raises troubling questions such as why the Justice Department's investigation into the matter was stopped. "He (Harper) is saddled with the appearance of conflict of interest," Dion said. "As such, his impartiality could come under question as further decisions on how to proceed are taken." However, Dion said he would not try to bring down the minority government if they do not call a public inquiry into the matter. NDP Leader Jack Layton is also demanding a public inquiry. "We have to get the whole truth," he said in Calgary. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/071109/...harper_mulroney ---------------- Harper the Young learns an old lesson in Leadership- a closed mouth gathers no foot. Say only what you mean and whats necessary. Everything else is just superflous diarhea from his mouth. Welcome to a monkey on your back- and that monkey is... when the big man goes down, get out of the way! Lets hope Mulroney doesn't ride you all the way down to hell. EDIT This was the Opening Post of the redundant thread: Harper implicated in Mulroney/Schreiber affair, ...

Lou Dobbs has it right... it makes no difference in the grand scene of things wether you vote Dem or Republican. Register as independent, to express your displeasure with these parties! Lou may not be always right but he is very outpsoken. I thought he was going to have a socialist meltdown in his "War on the Middle Class" I sure wish someone like him would run for president

My neighbours have all never heard of them. My parents, have never heard of them, nor my wife or her parents, or about 99% of the people at my office, I'll bet. Most don't even know about the new jail in Kingston. Not that the media didn't cover it, but it was snowed over by other stories on the major news coverage, tv news, etc which gives considerable more airtime to stories about Britney, gay politicians and priests, and OJ Simpson. But you are correct, thats all beside the point of why I asked those questions. Those are general questions, not necessary for you to answer... the point is who else is being held now? We can assume that there will probably be some new ones and will we hear about all who are detained without charges, or will some be secretely detained? National Security is the all-encompassing argument they can make, and it is un-checked by any non-partisan observer. They can use it as an excuse for anything. National Security Trumps all. So I am certainly not comfortable that people can be detained INDEFINITELY without charges!

The irony of this statement coming from you does not escape me!