trex

I fail to see why that makes it any less relevant to the curent discussion, since it involves the detention of people without charges, for several years. SO there are parallels hereand we are doing it to other people too, not just Khadr. And I bet most Canadians have never even heard of it, it is seemingly old news to you, and me. These people, and potentially other ones in the future, are at risk of being forgeotten about by a system in which is easy to detain anyone, but not so easy to let them go.

Local man held as suspected terrorist could be transferred to facility near Kingston Suspected terrorist Mohamed Harkat could be moving digs this spring when a new jail for those being held on security certificates opens next door to Millhaven Penitentiary. Corrections Canada officials confirmed yesterday that construction of a new, self-contained, six-person facility is expected to be completed by the end of March next to the Bath institution, 150 km southwest of Ottawa. Harkat, who's been held at the Ottawa-Carleton Detention Centre under less-than-ideal conditions since his arrest in December 2002, would be among those transferred there shortly thereafter. Egyptian detainees Mohammad Mahjoub and Mahmoud Jaballah as well as Syrian Hassan Almrei are among the other men being held under security certificates. They've been living at Toronto's Metro West Detention Centre since their arrests. "It's a temporary solution to a long-term problem. It doesn't solve the problem of people being detained without charge," Harkat's wife Sophie said yesterday. Shocked and a little confused by the news, Sophie said she'd only heard rumours about the plan and couldn't weigh in for or against it until she knows what the conditions at the new jail would be like. "I'm not in agreement with a transfer if his conditions won't be better," she said. "He has to have family contact visits. Somewhat of a normal lifestyle similar to what people have in penitentiaries. He would have to have more freedom than he has right now." Corrections Canada spokeswoman Michele Pilon-Santilli said the confinement conditions at the facility are being determined by the Canada Border Services Agency, which is responsible for security certificate detainees. She couldn't say what sort of amenities the inmates would have. Officials at CBSA could not be reached. http://www.ottawasun.com/News/OttawaAndReg...420554-sun.html ------ Who are these people? Why have we not even heard of them? How long have they been in confinement, under what conditions? It sounds like they are not even given the same conditions as normal offenders in prisons.

Just more Conservative Death Agenda, as well as imprisonment as pre-emptive measure, ie before crimes are proven to be committed. Even the suspicion of certain crimes will put you in jail for years now. Without trial. Special detention facility being built out in Millhaven, Ontario for security detainees. http://www.prisonjustice.ca/starkravenarti...north_0406.html Now affectionaltaley being called "Guantanamo North"

Which is why Harper must be stopped, before we end up doing the same thing right here. Because that seems to be the road the right wingers are taking us on.

I am not pointing it out because its bad, but to show it is very much on their agenda. And not only Tony Clement- "the media pressed Stephen Harper to answer questions about social issues including abortion, the definition of marriage, and the death penalty. Harper's response in respect of each issue appears to be that although a Harper government would not introduce a bill on those issues, Harper would allow a free vote on a private members bill on each of those issues." http://www.mondopolitico.com/elections/can...onservative.htm

Although it doesn't help much if it appears that laws are being invented ad-hoc, or arbiutrary, inconsistent. Or decisions made where no law applies... subjectively,, imperically, by people who are not beyond being influenced by other parties... politicians. Who gave them the power of life and death. Thats why there is law, so they do not have absolute rule.

"My personal view is that in the case of serial killers and murderers of police officers, for instance, that it would be appropriate in those circumstances". -- Tony Clement (Regarding Capital Punishment)

How can he be held until hostilities cease? Hostilities were never even declared. The US is not at war with either Afghanistan or Pakistan. They are at war with Iraq, yes. But no other country. So what war is he a prisoner of? Let me guess, the war on terror... Ok and who decides when that war ends? That sounds to me like the kind of a war that never ends, not like war with another country, in the conventional sense. So Khadr is not at all a conventional prisoner of war.

Yes you have a point there, I'm sure they intended this beforehand and made some publc statements about it... as I posted links some while back made by others in teh cpc, not Day and not Harper. But a good reason to keep a muzzle on everybody, so these things don't leak out! But in regards to China, I believe that is the advantage they made with dropping sponsorship. The two may not be related, but part of the same pro-death agenda

Why not? They make the vote but they don't sponsor it. What do you think that means? It means we don't have to bug China anymore when it comes to trade deals, about executions. Because we are not sponsoring that one!

Interesting point, one can presume that he is pressured by another country, to back off on the insistence of human rights perhaps a country like China, big trade contracts. Or, simply put, USA, biggest partner. Economics Trumps Virtue again

chances are if its too high up the food chain we will never know. this just proves how america is hyperventilating. they get just a whiff of information, they go totally bananas. i guess everyone needded to see it right away, to assess the immediate threat... they blew the cover of a covert operation... not to mention if anyones life is in danger as a result, as can be the case in these matters. the very type of thing that could someday bring them information about osama bin laden outed by their completet lack of discretion... and they just try to blow it off... what a bunch of cowboys when will americans wake up and finally say, "enough" with these goons

true, then no need for Moxie to thank anyone...

what again?? seems like we just bought that stuff... can we get any of our money back from the brits?? ya thats the crap sub, it leaked, someone even died. i think its the same one?? they were considered crap even before we got the very first one. if so, shame on them, theres no accountability for these people...

thats true, but dont forget we are also there at the request of the united states, they asked us to help them in their war on terror, and we agreed. they were attacked on september 11, and we helped them. that is why the us attacked afghanistan, remember... so its nice for them to help us, help them!

get some help...

agreed, i certainly dont want them to be teaching creationism in the schools either... Tory is a loon, reminds me of a "reaganite" i think i will go with hampton myself this time... he seems to have some sense of fairness in his policies. i've had enough of dullton

because that is still far too harsh. if for a first offence we admit there was minimal injury to the public made the first time, we forgive it with a fine. why the state must even be paid then... better yet tell you what, just tax me for the product and we'll save us the court fees and backlog for serious offences? and if its not an offence once, and nothings changed between then and the next time, same circumstances, why is it then a greater offence? certainly, 20 years, or even two years, for mere possession is too much! lets compare what else in the criminal system gets such sentences, and see what sort of place these people are put into... they share the detention centre for 2 years to 20 years, for some comparable, extremely violent sociopathic individuals! even if it is only two years, we all know that a sentence doesnt end there. the stigma of being an ex-con affects them for the rest of their life, in serious ways. so the punishment is never over. not just two years in prison, it has lasting repercussions. if he or she is a parent, their family also suffers for it. that is still comparable to the punishment of much more serious offences, gun crimes, petty theft, break and enter, assault who comes out then after two years, a reformed person or a greater criminal? even made more desparate by their inability to get a decent job, most places do background checks and wont hire someone with a record... etc i could go on, but its just too obvious to argue it anymore.

evidently not, they do not get the jokes, mr. shav. when you first hit em where it hurts... ;^)

i dont know why people go on about this republican senator, if he did it he would be a pervert in my opinion, but then why should he resign? its not surprising that a politician is guilty of hypocrisy.

fine, then you support decriminilazation then. because all those bad ones would be outta work, if you decriminilized at least small amounts, and allowed small personal grows, there would be nomarket. all those guys would be gone. not gone, they would find another area of society to exploit. go after the criminals yes, but lets just take their legs out from under them. The same thing happened during alcohol prohibition, and regulation proved itself to be the only sensibleway to manage the problem. theres even evidence, that regulation reduced the use of alcohol, plus reduced the deaths since they no longer drank hootch made in a garage, they had ways to make the alcohol safe and regulated the strength of it... makes sense and proved to be the only way out.

that spelled rumpsfeld... get it right will ya? ;^) i would also add, mr. moamar gaddafy, vlad plutonium...

While talking to americanwoman about the BBC, there was a quote there which will put your silliness to rest- "We have 25% of the world's prisoners but we're only 5% of the world's population" Kara Gotsch, American Civil Liberties Union http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1242368.stm and guess what, i did not put it there, scott!

if those other numbers are right, then you can reassure yourself that US is better than china. fine... and maybe even most of the other so-called axis of evil countries, or whatever. but that is hardly good enough a comparator, the harsh dictatorships. are we saying, the US is the best of the harsh dictatorships? or the worst of the so-called free world? we can certainly trust the numbers from those countries, like Britain, or Canada. you know what it means if we do that... We could take a look at the graph some people call it, the prison-industrial system, with the drug war pumping the money. Jails is big business, lots of jobs. I heard some states offer incentives to build the supermax prisons there, is this true? Just asking... forget about the numbers, forget about china... what is it saying, the article talks about the fallout of criminal stigma for the families, the kids who gets their parents taken away. sure the parents broke the law, sure they have an addiction. no one denies this, but the question is does the punishment fit the crime? theres people in the US in jail for 20 years, for growing 3 plants in his basement. they were his plants, not for sale but he was still charged with cultivation, treated more punitively. since he used his basement to grow the plants, his house came under rules of forfeiture, family home gone... among thousands of other horror stories. basically mandatory minimus allows no exception, no judges discretion for extenuating circumstances.

Bliar