Tsi Nikayen' Enonhne'

She:kon! Our ability is hardly impotent. That is why it is important to negotiate with your government to bargain a deal for those settlers remaining on our tract. If negotiations fail then it will be by sovereign right that either they are evicted or they reamin under Haudenosaunee rule. O:nen

She:kon! Your court's interpretation of domestic law has no authority over us any more than it would have standing in the US or Cuba. You can make all the interpretations and declarations you want and it doesn't mean beans. Haudenosaunee are sovereign nations subject to our own Constitution and laws. O:nen

She:kon! Canadian courts have no jurisdiction over sovereign First Nations. Most of BC Alberta and Saskatchewan is unceded. No treaties. No rights to occupy those lands. O:nen

She:kon! I would suggest that you take your own advice. The patriation of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms was not an autonomous act. The Queen signed it authorizing it under the Constitution Act. The Charter of Rights was an amendment to the Constitution Act and by the Queen's signature reinforced that Canada was still legally under Crown (HRM) rule. Now here is where it gets tricky. You see for about 20 years or so, the Queen has been under British Parliamentary control. Her budget and her acts must be approved by Britian. That would also include any act she signs for Canada. Essentially Canada is still a colony of Britian, only there are all kinds of myths around to make you believe you are not. O:nen

She:kon! You don't know tax law. No one earning an income on First Nations is required to pay income or sales tax. They are exempt under Indian law. Indians living on reserve and working off do not pay tax nor do Indians living off reserve and working on reserve pay tax. The taxation, like I said earlier is based on the territory, not the people. Canada has no jurisdiction and we are not tax collectors for a foreign entity. YOU can even buy smokes on reserve, tax free. The SCC makes decisions based on applicable law. The Royal Proclamation is valid law and so are treaties. The Charter simply confirms it for the Canadian lawmakers. No Canadian law applies on Six Nations or other Haudenosaunee territory. We have an extradition treaty with the Crown but only for muder or rape. All other crimes are weighed internal to Six Natons and disposed of according to our own set of laws. Your own legal documents discount Canadian sovereignty. While the Governor General's position has traditionally been not interfering, the laws still remain and only the Crown is sovereign. Canada is a corporation - nothing more. O:nen

She:kon! Wikipedia can be authored and edited by anyone. Whomever enter that info was believing the same myths. O:nen

She:kon! Merriam Websters On-line: Main Entry: sov·er·eign·ty Variant(s): also sov·ran·ty /-tE/ Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural -ties Etymology: Middle English soverainte, from Anglo-French sovereinté, from soverein 1 obsolete : supreme excellence or an example of it 2 a : supreme power especially over a body politic b : freedom from external control : AUTONOMY c : controlling influence 3 : one that is sovereign; especially : an autonomous state Canada's controlling influence is the Crown. The Queen is the only one capable of amending or signing Canada's Constitution AND the Governor General - the Crown's representative IS the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces. The Justice system operates on her behalf and the government must seek his or her approval in order to form or dissolve a government and is a signatory on all international documents. Canada is NOT sovereign. "Canada is able to enforce its laws and collect taxes from all territory it claims." Challenges taken to the Supreme Court have dismissed that claim. Canada cannot enforce all its laws where it concerns First Nation's people. Aboringal rights are exempt. In the case of Six nations, no OPP or RCMP are permitted on the territory. Your laws have no force and effect. As well, I am sure you realize your faux pas. Indians are tax exempt - not because your government grants them but we are sovereign nations in our own right. So the measure by which you just attempted to define yourself as a nation has failed. Try again. O:nen

She:kon! Riverwind <QUOTE>"Canada has a land base over which it is sovereign."<END QUOTE> I know you believe in this myth, so prove it! Find the documents where British subjects made a unilateral declaration of independence. Find the Constitutional documents that you think prove Canada's sovereignty. Find your nationhood and then come back and make those claims.....if you can..... The fact is that Canada's constitution, The BNA Act and even the 1982 amendments to enfranchise the Charterof Rights and Freedoms has been approved by the Queen. You are a franchise of the Crown, not legally soveriegn or a nation but a complex corporation former to protect the poplitical and business interests at the top. Have you ever noticed how time and time again your MP's have taken advantage of their positions and manipulated government to serve their business interests? That is what YOUR government was formed for. It wasn't to defend or protect the interests of the ordinary citizen - far from it! It was set up to be a big business federation where elite memebers could remove the barriers that regional and provincial interests would put up. And in fact after about 30 years when they realized that regioanl interests were still winning, your confederation executive enacted the Crows Nest Pass Act which forced east west trade and lowered railway tarrifs (subsidizing the railway) in order to get cheap resources to Ontario and Quebec markets. Yet there is nothing that ever gave Canada a land base. All lands are held in the interest in First Nations by the Crown, via the Royal Proclamation. The Royal Proclamation is protected in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and it exceeds the authority of the Consititution in protecting aboriginal rights. As to the other stuff it is just theoretical but outlines the potential. We are to be reckoned with one way or the other and I highly doubt that any Canadian would be willing to die to defend a small parcel of land they don't legally own. Any armed conflict would be initiated by Canada as we have buried our weapons of war beneath the Great Tree of Peace. We would however defend ourselves - to the death if need be - should anyone wish to impose themselves on us unrightfully. O:nen

She:kon! Canada is not a nation by definition. In order to be one it must have a land base - which it does not - and must be sovereign - which it isn't. All the lands in geographic borders of Canada belong to First Nations and the Canada Corporation (which is all Canada is legally) has no ownership. Instead, the Crown has treaty agreements that provide for the sharing of lands and only those resources necessary for survival. There has been no agreement to allow the mass extraction of resources or the construction of industrial buildings. It was anticipated and agreed that any other requests would first be made by petition to First Nations. Secondly Canada is not sovereign. It is an incorporated association (a federation) of business people who created a finiancial fortification against manipulation by the US interests. Six Nations has no need to defend our borders. The Haldimand Proclamation assigned that responsibility to the Crown in return for our assistance throughout the decades in protecting Canada, and by helping out on the warfront. If you are suggesting that 500,000 citizens would take up arms against us, you would have another thing coming. Their high dependence on urbanization makes them vunerable not necessarily to counter attack by ceasure of their infrastructure. Within a week without power, water and sanitation 99% of the people would be fleeing to safer ground. All this could hypothetically be achieved without even a bullet being fired. Of course our Warriors are well known as well, being tenacious militia. They continue to train US Special Ops and Navy Seals as part of their service in the US military. They could be called into service if the need arises, and many Warriors have the experience and the armaments to defend any territory. At Oka 25 Warriors held 2500 Canadian troops at bay. That makes one warrior worth 1000 Canadian soldiers ...... As to the UN Declaration on Aboriginal Rights, Canada was essentially the author. Canada is already been censored over their lack of action concerning aboriginal rights. A direct assault on us would result in some sort of sanctions being taken against Canada. But that is not all you have to worry about. There are 500 nations in North America and an full frontal attack would result in a backlash so potenet that it would paralize Canada and the US and very likely make Afghanistan look like a kids' parade. The UN would provide some intermediary in an effort to quash the conflict, for sure and the result would be a destablization of the economy and social infrastructure. Six Nations is as capable of operating public services as any body and very likely at less cost than it is currently being administered. That would result in better services and infrastructure than the Tract receives now. Then the remainder of tax revenue could be used to improve the social and health services in the region. Property and personal taxes are collected on the basis of the nation you are living in. Six Nations has every right to collect the same taxes from people living in our territory. What we do with those taxes is irrelevent, given that underservicing would only place a burden on Canadian taxpayers, or private servicing agencies. I have no doubt that the taxes would be manged properly. You have no say in whether we can collect taxes or not, and those Canadians living on our territories only have the choice of living there or not. The UN is supportive of democratic rights. Our participatory democratic government system is the oldest continuous democracy on earth. Plus when weighed against the UN position on aboriginal rights being equally important, Canada doesn't have a very rosy future in comparison. O:nen

She:kon! The Haudnosaunee are not like other nations. We're not willing to sell out our interest in the land for a few bobbles and bracelets. That's all the money they offer represents and while they may value it, in some cases more than life itself, as Kayenke'haka I value the land 100 fold more. Stopping urban sprawl, maintaing viable farmland and reducing pollution is much more important than taking some cash, going on a spending spree and then becoming dismissed by Canadians once again. Canada MUST present the vacant lands back to us and add new lands to our territory in exhange. If that cannot happen then settlers living on our territories will be offered the chance to leave or to stay and become citizens. The taxes that they might have paid will be in turn paid to us, and revenues from resources and industry will be diverted into the National holdings. If you want our agreement then there MUST be equity in it. Otherwise we will not negotiate ourselves into a loss. Canada doesn't have a choice. We have changed the rules under which land reclamations will be made. There are no courts, no commissions and no outside influences in the exercise of our right to the land. There are no other side deals, no buy-outs and no graft. We just take back the land and since it was ours in the beginning, Canada must prove to us beyond any doubt that we leased it or sold it and that it has been paid in full. We know what to do with land once we take it back and we have always prospered under our own power as a sovereign nation. “Brother! – If you wish us well then keep away; don’t disturb us.” Red Jacket, Seneca Sachem May 1811 O:nen

She:kon! The Supreme Court of Canada has no jurisdiction over international agreement disputes. All treaties will be honoured or the consequences will have to be faced. In Canada that means removing future development or interference with infrastructure that passes over our territories. It also means inconvenince and unpheaval for Canaadian citizens. You should also study the Constitutional documents, since legally, Canada doesn't exist as a sovereign nation. You can't change the constitution because it is not yours to tinker with. And given that the Crown does recognize our sovereign right and the promises made between us, it is more likely that any amendments would futher entrench our physical and property rights. The recent UN Declaration on Aboriginal Rights spells out the future direction that people will take. It is about recognition of aboriginal rights, not reducing them. O:nen

She:kon! My cousins and my grandmother are Ojibway. The stories they tell are the same as I have told you. Our nations lived together on the north shore. O:nen

She:kon! Nope. We have never been at war, even in support of others. Some people have chosen to join the actions and fight along side other soldiers but the official Haudenosaunee stance is neutral. The Ojibway hold the myths too, as do to Wendat. The Huron, was us - Iroquois - living on the north shores of the St Lawrence, and Lakes Ontario and Erie. We were not at war with ourselves. However, the British like to make stories like that up. And given British and Canadians have a penchant for violence it stands to reason that they would be prejudiced by that filter when writing their history. O:nen

She:kon! No that is not true. We have never declared war on anyone. We have allied with the British, Canada and the US in some conflicts but never have we waged war on anyone. The myths that the Iroquois were at war with the Hurons or the Ojibway is also a myth perpetuated by the French and British in order to justify using violence against the Iroquois. O:nen

She:kon! Waht we do within our own government system - and this is no different than than the US - has nothing to do with you. You don't have a say, nor do Canadians get an opinion in the outcome. If we as Haudenosaunee want an aristocracy like Canada (althought we would have to be equally insane) that would be up to us. What part of "self-determination" don't you understand? Haudenosaunee rights are defined under OUR consitution, The Great Law. Your consitution neither limits us, or prescribes for us. What it does do (and you obviously have no clue about your own laws) is that it tells you exactly that - that our rights are "off-limits" to Canadian law. That means that our rights and your rights are different and neither are defined by the other. What you think you know about your own law and constitution is a myth. Canadians are NOT self-determining. Your constitution cannot be changed by government. It requires the approval of the Crown because Canada is a subject of the Crown. And not likely youy could see the Crown willing to amend the constitution to wipe out the recognition of aboriginal rights, since it was at the Queens insistence and assertion that it be included. So good luck with that. Still it wouldn't matter to us because we operate under a different law, one based on participatory democracy and freedoms of individuality. The "majority of Canadians" don't have a say in what happens to any lands let alone OUR lands. Your corporation cannot own any lands and the Crown manages those lands on behalf of the treaties that have been made with various First Nations. YOUR interest in the lands isn't even a consideration or on the negotiating table. So fat chance that anyone of you could change the course your governmetn must go to resolve our complaints. Maybe you should spend some time studying your Charter and Constitution. YOU HAVE NO rights that can usurp our rights. That is a Charter gurantee. You could use violent confronatation to assert your non-rights but then again our Consitution provides that we could uncoil with such venemous reaction that Afghanistan would look like a CAP protest in comparison. Through our Constitution we will restore the Peace at any cost should peaceful means not prevail. O:nen

She:kon! You've made two fundemental errors in stating your opinion. 1. The Haudenosaunee are not like other First Nations. We have a recognized and asserted nation to nation relationship with Canada and the US. We are sovereign peoples with a land base and separate government structure outside of the Canadian one. 2. We are not Canadian citizens. We are Haudenosaunee citizens with our own passports and immigration policies. Our ownership of the land is not the "we are the caretakers" that pan-indians like to present. Our women have been and will always be the title holders of land on behalf of our nations. A third error in your logic is that this is about money. It is about land. It is about stopping the furhter encroachment onto our territories, about development without our consent and about halting urban sprawl in towns and cities within our borders. Having the land base intact is not only important to our future generations - to give them a place to live, work and grow - but it is important to protect and maintain viable and productive farm land - some of the richest soils anywhere. We're not interested in your sympathy or your condemnation. The simple fact is that we just wish to be left alone - to stop your government's harassment of our people; to stop the genocidal policies implemented in the Indian Act and to restore equity in our nations. The Two Row Wampum provides the model under which we agreed to operate. The Covanent Chain - A Treaty of Goodwill and Friendship recognizes our common relationship and agrees that each of us are separate but may from time to time join by our joint agreement for economic or defense purposes. Our veterans have served in every conflict that Canada or the US has been involved in. We have reached out to other countries and broken down trade barriers on our common behalfs. That does not make us Canadian. It simply makes us partners in some ventures and as long as Canadians recognize our independence all will be well. The assertion of our ownership of the lands and our rights is necessary because progressive generations of Canadians ignore our compliants to your government. We had enough quite frankly of your unjust courts, the inequitable justice system and the bombardment of developer's encroachments. And since your government has refused to help us preferring instead to support the squatters, we have no choice but to reclaim our lands and stop the encroachments. We have ignored your imposition of band government and returned to our traditional council system under the Kayener'serako:wa - The Great Binding Law. Our legal system and political systems will determine our actions from here on in. We are self-determining and no longer consider ourselves partners with Canada. Perhaps we will seek agreements with the US or Cuba, or countries in South America giving them open access to our territories and people for trade purposes. Perhaps we will set up our own garbage dumps and electrical generating systems and place them adjacent to homes on the Canadian side of our borders. And while we are not interested in evicting illegal settlers from their homes, we will keep it under consideration should they not abide by our laws or defintions of their citizenship under the Great Law. YOUR government has put you in an untenable predicament. You don't own any land in North America and instead of working with us to continue your leases, we have been ignored, criticised and attacked. The negotiations may result in taking money or other lands in lieu of reoccupation of some of our territory. That is up to your government. We'll take the land first and only compromise if it is to our benefit. You must realize you don't hold the ace and starting negotiations from a 2 of Diamonds against our Kind of Clubs won't win you many hands. Expect the worse. The end result is bound to be better than that because we are reasonable and peaceful people. O:nen

She:kon! Riverwind There's your problem! Canada is neither an egalitarian democracy, nor a capitalist society. It is a aristrocracy and a corportist society! You may want to delude yourself otherwise, but that is the fact and truth. Your soceity is full of inequity and inequality and the guys on the top reap their greedy profits on that backs of the workers. The investors earn more return than owners, and communities have no say in the Walmart mcjobs they throw at them. Your argument is delusional and your continuous atttempts to defend the insanity under which your society and government operates is equally insane. O:nen

She:kon! Aboringal people have their full "inherent" rights intact. It is Canadians' rights that have been usurped by laws and regulations. That is something YOU should take up with Corporate Canada. You willingly give up those rights by being a Canadian citizen. OUR rights are untouchable and I find it moronic that you would insist that we give up our rights entrusted us by the Creator of All Things, just so you can feel better. Your mistake is that you confuse equity with equality. They are not the same thing. However, it doesn't matter anyway because an equal society - something that is supposed to be guaranteed under your Charter of Rights and Freedoms, is a myth. Rich people receive an different more lenient justice than poor people do. They receive more tax breaks and better health care even though these things are suppose to equal in your so-called equal society. They also receive better education and better access to higher paying jobs. The disabled, gays and lesbians and religious organizations are granted the same rights even though rulings will go in their favour when confronted with mainstream society. Your society and your corporate entity is anything but equal. Equity on the other equates to making sure that actions and differences have value, in human terms. Justice must be meaningful and relative. We own the land and we made agreements to share it with other people for our joint livelyhood. Yet Canadians have profited from our lands and have denied us a share of the gains. That is inequity. You create laws to control each other and then apply them to us with a mind to suppress us and marginalize us. That is inequity. But now I see your bottom line - that of most cheap labour conservatives. "How much is it going to cost?" Nevermind that you have destroyed much of the land in industrialisation or that clear cutting and open pit mining has irreparably damaged the eco-system. You ignorunts fail to recognize the costs in human terms or the costs of multi-generations' recovering from gencidal and apartheid Canadian policies that attempted to kill us off while those who perpetrated the crimes are protected by your institutions. You ignore that fact that the land your house sits on was never paid for, nor treatied for, nor leases paid to us. The profits that your companies have made without regard to the cost of proper care of their social responsibilities. You forget that you would not be here if not for our generousity and instead promote an inequitible relationship where we continue to suffer against injustice and poverty while you drive two of everything and replaced with new and improved. We OWN the land. That is a simple concept, no? What you do with it can only come about from here on in by our permission. Get used to it and tell your cheap labour conservative friends to get used to it as well. The world has turned on its axis and we all know that shite flows downhill. Perhaps you CLCs should consider investing in an umbrella factory. You're going to need lots of them. Mind you we have always been adept at identifying and deflecting the crap people like to spew in chunks. To compensate that one or two trillion dollars all one need do is to cream the top off the stock exchange for a year. Taxes are a ruse designed to keep you in line and hardly make a dent in the cost of running Canada. Profits and investment is where all the money comes from. O:nen

She:kon! That sounds more like a statement than a question.... Under the new rules of reclamation and aboriginal ownership no one knows for sure how it will all work out. Rather than trying to promote your own personal agendas, it might be appropriate to hold a little more faith. New citizens of the Confederacy do not have a say at the national level. How could anyone rationalize violent and subjegative thinking with peace and freedom. As settlers with a settler mentality you would be a threat to not only us and the Great Peace but to yourselves. You have shown in the past that settlers are prone to greed when offered freedom and stoop to manipulation for their own gain when offered charity. In order to qualify as a citizen under the Great Law you would need to demonstrate that you can and are willing to adhere to the principles of peace. At this point in your lives few of you are capable of even understanding "what" they are let alone their importance to the Haudenosaunee way of democracy and life. We have contained in the Great Law a method to "extend the rafters" of the law where we feel it would be beneficial to the people and the Great Peace. Perhaps if enough of you were to sincerely join the Confederacy we could make room for you. We did for the Tuscaroras a while back. But for only one or two we must fall back on the wisdom of the Great Law. We're not interested in making slaves out of you. Riverwind, the more you talk the more you just repeat the same thing over and over again. I wondering if you really are just trying to convince yourself that the lies you present as truth are believable? I can see why some would consider you to be a racist, given your desire for an inequitible relationship with us. Given our proper recognition as the owners of the Haldimand Tract, and other lands belonging to the Haudenosaunee, we would have no trouble generating income. You forget we are the Iroquois - the capitalists of the ancient and modern worlds. We are relatively prosperous even compared to many of your rural towns of similar size. When I say self-determining that also includes self-sufficieny and self-reliance. The offer of allowing settlers to stay on our lands and using their taxes means that we would take over the infrastructure and operate Conservation Authorities, roads departments and water and sewer services within the tract. We have the ability to operate health and welfare systems as well. Certainly by living on our land you wouldn't think that people would want to live for free - and get handouts from us? I mean you are too caught up in a Canadian corporate welfare scheme as it is now. We would attempt to restore some dignity to your poor victim-playing Canadian mentality and make real men and women out of you. We taught your Canadian ancestors how to survive in this world and by evidence of our being 500 years after the genocide commenced should should be sufficient for you to believe that we can still teach you about survival in the modern world without the aid of your corporate welfare state. The negotiations will progress at a substantial state. If the government stalls they will be potentially faced with a confrontation to move them along. We have always understood that peaceful means like negotiation and honest dialog are the path to resolving our differences. However, when government officials attempt to sabatouge the talks, or delay them unreasonably our only recourse is to start talking by digging in and turning off something important. You must understand by now that while Oka was a catastrophe for the Surette du Quebec, the Canadian government and the Army, it was only a test. The reclamations at Caledonian and other places along the Haldimand Tract are just the beginning of the real thing. We are not about to cave because your government tries dishonesty as a tactic. And unfortunately Canadians will suffer the uneasiness and inconveniences those at Caledonia complain about by our constant and vigilant presence. And don't discount the support from other nations across North America blockading bridges, rails and other infrastructure to demonstrate the seriousness of these talks and the eventual return of lands to us. A couple of days with block bridges, one day rail line blockade and a 3 day power outage wreaked havoc at Caledonia. Can you imagine what a couple of months would do? People in cities and towns couldn't survive more than a week without power. I'm not suggesting that I advocate any form of violence to resolve our differences. However, there are many youth frustrated with the inaction and Warriors who might resort to anarchy whom we cannot control without a sincere effort demonstrated by Canada. We can certainly try to let peaceful and calm minds prevail, but there are a number of itches waiting to be scratched by less calm people. This is the reality and the result of injustice and inequity. The lands are ours, no question. The only quandry is about what we will do with the millions of settlers that occupy our territories without authority. That is what your government begs for on your behalf. Riverwind.... Since as a Canadian subject you without standing in your own government and without a true democracy that allows you to participate in the resolutions that will affect you, this discussion really is useless. On the other hand I can afford to offer you the infromation since my opinion does count and will bend the final outcome. So if you can return to your polite demeanor and stick to decent discussion without continually repeating yourself I may consider continuing offering you our position for your entertainment purposes. But really I find your whole racist being a mild form of retarded development and hope that through our discussions I can enlighten you to the point that you can be free from your bias and prejudice and be enlightened to the Truth. That is my hope. Open your mind. Anything is possible. O:nen

She:kon! Canadians wake up once and a while often just before an election to ask " who's running" then they go back to sleep for another year. When they do wake up and don't see their shadow then like Punxsutawney Phil or Wairton Willie they think there will be six more years of liberal rule. O:nen

She:kon! Contrary to the opinion here, we can own and sell land on the reserve. All purchases must be approved by the Council and one must be a citizen of the Nation first. As a Canadian you have no standing concerning Haudenosaunee issues. We have no dual citizenship requirements. You could petition to become a citizen of one of the Nations but you would have to spend some time with them and see if they would sponsor you. Even still, because your thinking is obtusely colonial you would have limited say in national politics. You could participate in the community politics, however. You fears - a construct of your anglo-european Christian worldview - have no basis. Your cry of victimization is a typical Canadian response to change. Get over it. You injure yourself by maintaining a dogmatic position. Canada is an apartheid system. We're not only asking for our own freedom but for yours also. Where else but in south Africa were people sent to encampments (reservations) away from the mainstream and told to assimilate or stay imprisoned for life? Where else but in genocidal europe were Jews separatede out and numbered (band status) so that they could be killed in order. While we do not compare in numbers to the Jews or South Africans that were murdered under those policies, we have been none-the-less subjected to cultural genocide which is the same thing by definition. The fact is that those policies and the genocide is NOT in the past. It is ever present in the entire law of the Indian Act and is perpetrated on your behalf not only by the Department of Indian Affairs but by the Minsitry of Justice and the Solitor General. Our future is by our own self-determination as sovereign peoples will be. We want nothing to do with Canada, its policies or its racist segregation. We are a nation under our own authority and the exercise of reclaiming our lands IS a statement of that fact. You whining that we are tryint to turn you into something is some of the most obtuse racist crap I have heard yet. What you really fear is that we will do to you what you have been doing to us for 500 years. That really frightens you. Good thing we were founded on the Principles of Peace and the Good Mind, our personal Righteous Peacefulness holds as much significance as our assertion of our authority for self-determination. Still you might excite a few of our warriors from time to time whose minds get clouded with thoughts of justice, you can take solace in the fact that you cannot excite us as a nation. Our movement is thought-out, deleberate and ultimately successful because we are peaceful. O:nen

She:kon! Yep. Your problem stems from YOUR limitations not our rights. At least with being free you have something to aspire to. We could ignore and undo all the treaties. But that would mean that Canad would disappear entirely. It would mean that Canada would be US property and that all lands would revert back to Native peoples. You see, Canada and your forgoers the British were only here by agreement. You cannot advocate ignoring treaties and still exist as a Crown Corporation. It is obtuse thinking to suggest that you can. So what about agreements. Can you survive without free-trade, or provincial divisions? Provinces are part of Confederation by those same types of treaties and agreements. The federal government has no authority excpt by agreement with their provincial business partners. Afterall that is what makes the federation - they are an association provincial business partners....... So go ahead ignore First Nation treaties. You kill Canada in the same breath. You want cash for your interest in the land you should appraoch the government for that. On your behalf they have profitted and continue to profit from the illegal extraction of resources and the contamination of lands in support of industrial expansion. So we don't need to buy back anything. We have already paid the price 10 times over. And even though that you can't and never will see any cash, that really is YOUR problem. Take it up with your courts. I'm sure that given you have no property rights, they will quickly dismiss your claim. And unfortunately in Haudenosaunee law you have no standing to lodge your complaints. Maybe you should take it to Ottawa and complain there? O:nen

She:kon! Treaties are valid international agreements. You can renegotiate them but if you ignore them then you face the consequences - like Six Nation staking their land back. Six nations is not in the business of evicting people from their homes. They are reclaiming (for the time being) those lands that are vacant or which have been developed without our consent. So while homes and local businesses are not part of the reclamations, parks, valley and conservation lands, public lands and un-tendered farms are. In the case of Caledonia, the developers was previously warned he did not have our permission to develop the land and when he started we were quick to move in and stop the devlopment so future home owners would not be in the same prediciment. Our present goal is to stop the encroachment. Negotiation with the government will determine what happens to lands that have already been encroached. However, you must realize that Canada is beginning negotiations from a deficit and it is likely that you will see more losses than gains on your side. The Americans exercise their right to detach from Great Britian and to become self-determining. Canada did not. Instead business people decided to for a federation (an association ) in order to protect their interests from invasion and manipulation by the US. Canada incorporated - as a business entity only - under the laws of Great Britian, and the Crown. And even though you might belief the myth that Canada is a nation, it is not self-determining, nor does it possess the necessary land base to consider it a nations. As I said Crown lands - held in right of the Queen's interest - are Indian lands (by ownership) held in trust by the Queen. This protection was set up by the Crown because they witness the greedly land grabs that occured in the states and by writ prohibited the same thing happening here. The Covenant Chain describes our relationship and it is celebrated each year by Six Nations and the Queen as a reminder of our relationship. If like you say land determines the nation then I would suggest that you are already Haudenosaunee more than you are Canadian. Being a Canadian really equates in a legal sense to nothing more than an employeeof a Crown Corporation who instead of paying you for your services instead steals from you through taxation. O:nen

She:kon! It isn't a matter of whether Canadians accept this. It is the law of your land. If you try to change your law, under international law we still exist as an sovereign Nation. Plus any atttempts to subjagate us would only lead to further erosions of the Peace we have enjoyed between us. The best bet for Canada is to try to negotiate a settlement in which you can continue to enjoy your security and habitation of our lands. Given that the occupied areas of the Haldimand Tract alone are worth in excess of $1 trillion you have a long way to go before you can buy your way out of this predicament. I forsee Canada giving up its taxing authority over people who live within the boundaries of our territories and diverting any taxes collected in say the last 25 years to our administration. Those living on our territorial lands could then have the option of joining our nations under the requirements for immigration define in our Great Law. Otherwise they could be left with the option of Canada purchasing their interests (land and buildings) and handing them back to Six Nations...kind of like the Israeli government did to those illegal Israelis occupying the west bank and Gaza. On the other hand once people understand the nature of our participatory democracy, they might just want to stay on and join the Confederacy as a citizen. O:nen

She:kon! There is a disparity between your rights and those of Native people. Yours have been seriously limited by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and subjective laws imposed by the governments. Laws and regulations are designed to limit your rights, not to free them. On the other hand the Haudenosaunee (Six Nations) have a differnent consitution and supreme law that actually defends our rights and our participatory democracy. It is based first on the right of non-interference and requires each individual to be reponsible for their actions. The premise behind the law is that all people are inherently peaceful and respectful. And when they don't appear that way then something must be infereing with their inherent qualities. We then observe and help the person return to his or her good-thinking through a number of processes. The differences in thinking between Haudensaunee and Settlers cannot be emphasized enough. There will never be a blending of our nations because it would be like trying to mix colour with sound. There would always be an attempt by the wind section people to downplay the significance of the coloured people. Our only hope is to mainatin and support the Two Row Wampum and live in separate parallel systems. Canada cannot "settle" aboriginal rights. Our rights surpass the right of Canada. We are not citizens, nor are our rights defined by Canada. The Charter of Rights and Freedoms, merely recognizes aboriginal right above and beyond control and certifies that pre-existing right by treating or practice is still valid for aboriginal people. This means in short that you can't tamper with our rights. You can only (and must) accept them. So the real issue isn't about aboriginal rights - our right to lands a owners, our right to resources and livelyhood from the lands etc. It really should be about your loss of rights through the manipulation of business interests that formed the Corporation of Canada and now limits your ability to anything about it - including being able to actively participate in your democracy. That is what is relevent. O:nen