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Michael Hardner

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Everything posted by Michael Hardner

  1. Say what you like about MikeDavid (I sure have...) but he's right to complain about the healthcare system. A co-worker of mine told me today that he has a 'friend' who can get him in line for MRIs. Lefty types and sort-of-lefty-types like me have spent the past 15 years talking about how our system is better than the American one, rather than lighting a fire under our politicians to fix things. The system is not getting better, and everybody needs to start getting very unhappy about that until something gets done. We're about to re-elect Dalton McGuinty who took office with ONE MILLION Ontarians not having a doctor, to deliver (today) ONE MILLION Ontarians without a doctor. Nobody should be satisfied with the state of affairs. If we don't want a market-based healthcare system, then that's fine, but we have to have one that works. Clearly, a politically based healthcare system doesn't work.
  2. Arg, Excuse me ? You've posted to me 3 times without a reply from me. You're repeating yourself from a previous post. I already addressed this. And ? There's no source for what you have written, first of all. Secondly, people coming from other cultures are going to have some unpalatable ideas about gender, race, what have you. Are you saying that should be a basis for keeping people out of Canada ? Do you think Russian men have a progressive view towards women ? What about other cultures ? I don't like people who don't read my posts either. I have already said that racists don't stir me to emotional response, so no I wouldn't call the person filthy. Secondly, double our Muslim population every ten years might well be unreasonable. We're absorbing a lot of immigrants now, but I don't know what the numbers are. I would have to see them before commenting on your example. She hasn't made a logical judgement. From your example, she doesn't "like" the idea... based on who knows what. I live in the fastest growing G8 country population-wise, in the city that receives the most immigrants. We can sustain current levels, from what I have experienced. My experience tells me that most people who are anti-immigration have developed their stance out of fear, and don't actually live in areas where there is a lot of immigration. What we "fools" are trying to do is figure out why you folks are anti-Muslim, not anti-Afghani Musim or anti-Pakistani Muslim. Whenever we ask specific questions as to whether a certain Muslim might be an exception to your rule, we get the usual logical dance wherein you switch from the holy-books, to the culture as being the root cause. I agree that the attitudes that you despise come from the culture. That's all the more reason to westernize as much of the world as possible by allowing people who want to live in freedom, in Canada, to do so.
  3. I stand corrected, thanks DoP.
  4. MikeDavid - I don't think you meant to say that I posted that, did you ? Because I don't think I did. I'm not familiar with New Zealand's situation.
  5. Vision, There is, though, a large middle ground that the Conservatives can inhabit - by loosening central power, and allowing more provincial control for example. Or by making some soft steps on 'accommodation' that appeal to the middle, such as making statements about the law and certain religions' treatment of women for example. Dion's big plus is the environment, and Harper needs to convince the middle that he's not a caveman in this respect. Once he's done that, he could be due for a breakthrough. And I'm not planning to vote for the guy, either.
  6. Kuz, And as some have pointed out, Islam spans many cultures. I hate using the term xenophobia because a lot of people don't know what that means, and it's too long to type. (Emoticon.) Perhaps I'll just use the term 'bigotry'. And the ones who want to come here are fleeing the societies that are being criticized here as backwards, monotheistic, etc. They're not coming here to destroy Canada, but because they want a better life. There is always an adjustment process when society changes from immigration. These discussions are part of that process. I researched some racial and religious struggles in Ontario during the first part of the 20th century - these ones being between Irish, Dutch, Scottish, French, German and English immigrants of Presbyterian, English, Lutheran and Catholic faiths. Those struggles happened so long ago that we have forgotten about them. As such, Muslims seem so much 'different' to, say, Scottish Presbyterians that they might seem like aliens.
  7. When I look at the fact that a lot of these kids started as 1980s mouseketeers, then ended up in rehab, they start to look more like products on an 'icon assembly line' than people.
  8. Jennie, I don't follow your post. You're for MMP ? Why do you think that there will be less political posturing with MMP ? There will definitely be more politics, in the form of constant political deal making, which takes time away from governing.
  9. I don't know. Somehow I feel sorry for her. Like the German WW2 soldiers who were taken at 12 to fight on the eastern front, then caught and imprisoned in the USSR until they were old men. "I never had a life." Brittney's not a real person. If I were in the same room as her, I'd have to leave. It would be too depressing. When we vote, we're buying (spending time to go down and vote) a product (candidate) for it's effect, the 'sizzle' (the general feeling of well-being or misery that we get from a newspaper headline or tv news image). Rather than continue to dumb down and destroy our electoral system, the parties should voluntarily extricate it from this terrible decline. Stephen Harper is 'snubbing' the national press right now, but if he's successful, it might mean that politics and television are on their way to a happy divorce.
  10. Argus, That's delusional. If you look at a group of people on the other side of the world and associate them with people who have nothing to do with their actions, but share their skin colour - how is that better ? An Indian community centre in Hamilton Ontario was vandalized after 9/11. I guess that was rational because the attackers mistakenly thought they were of the same 'group' as the terrorists ?
  11. Argus, Excuse me ? Didn't I just eschew self-righteousness by imploring people to debate racists on the merits of their arguments ? I'm not shocked by racism. I'd like to debate why racist theories are incorrect, and there's nothing self-righteous about that.
  12. Argus, This is precisely the circular argument we've seen time and time again. So is it the holy books, or the culture ? If it's the culture, then bringing Muslims to Canada is a good thing, right ? So why do they not lose their culture, as every other culture who comes to the 'west' does ? Ah... time to switch back to "it's the holy books". I don't know if the people I'm debating with are smarter than me or not. Why are you changing the subject ?
  13. I don't think anybody needs to 'cry' racist racist. Nor do I think we need to ban Scott for plainly stating his racist views. ( BTW, I realize that Islam is a religion of many cultures, but I don't feel like typing Xenophobe. Scott also values his race, and a handful of other European offshoots so I'll just use that term until someone suggests a better one. ) Just say racist. Then discuss. Those of you on the left who are ready to pass out over the existence of a ScottSA, please keep in mind that there are a great many people out there who are intelligent and hold such opinions. If you can't debate them, then you should probably go away and rethink your principles before coming back to debate. Those of you who are racists need to decide if you have a 'reason' for your views or if you just 'feel' that way. If you do have a reason, be prepared to discuss. If you're open minded, then you will change your mind when your reasons are defeated. Those of you who, like Scott, just 'like to keep Canada Christian...' because you just feel that way, then accept that your views are unreasonable, and can't be defended. The rest of you, figure it out.
  14. Higgly, Are you advocating military action ?
  15. Scott, We were talking about attributing the causes of violence within a culture to that culture's holy books. If we suspect that this relationship is valid, and we're being rational, and not emotional, then we should see more violence in a culture with more violence in their holy books, no ? That's a distortion. One could argue the same thing about adherents of other holy books, who refrain from committing violent acts that are required of them. And why do you want to keep it that way ? Simply because you like Christians and Judeos ? Then we're agreed. North American culture draws upon a succession of cultures drawing all the way back to the Sumerians. You haven't explained it very well, you have only said that you want to keep society Christian Judeo, but not why. Would you allow a Muslim who repudiated their religion to stay in Canada, under your non-Christian-Judeo deportment plan ?
  16. S, The new testament preaches peace, but there's plenty of war in the old testament. Argus has correctly determined that 'culture' is factor. This means that Muslims under the influence of Canadian culture are not the same as those who grow up in, say, Pakistan. If the argument is: "Islam is fundamentally different from other religions, in that its adherents are prone to violence and unredeemable.", as yours seems to be, then a handful of westernized Muslims prove you wrong. Given that you have proposed deporting all Muslims, including those born here, it seems that you believe that none of them are any good at all. So, to recap: Reason tells us that we can disprove the statement "All X are Y" by finding an "X" that is not "Y"> Again, you're cherry picking certain statistics to "prove" the west is superior to another culture. Islamists do this, albeit more convincingly, when they point to the amount of decadence and pornography in western culture compared to theirs. As for the accusation that its inventions were products of other civilizations, please tell me what culture - aside from maybe Sumarians - arrived without any influence ? Christianity grew out of Judaism, and our number system is Arabic. I have also read eloquent writings of Abraham Lincoln that assert that African Americans are a lesser race. Intelligent public figures had no qualms about expressing racist ideas back then. These days, one has to come to anonymous web board to find an intelligent and well-spoken person who's willing to express racist views.
  17. Argus, Why don't you just fly the white flag and admit you're a bigot ? Islam spans many cultures. So what is it you're against ? Foreign religions or cultures ? Get it straight. There's no trick to being honestly exasperated by a succession of nonsensical arguments, which is where I'm at with all of you. I'm giving you a chance to hang yourself... I mean explain yourself... After all, you [non-]bigots are the ones with rational theories to explain why you hate people who look different, so you're the ones who have the obligation to explain it. Let's recap, then: It's the [slightly more]violent holy books, played out by a religion in a background of inferior cultures. That's the rational explanation, as I understand it. My version is this: You're going to take a subset of a group of people that you don't like, and hold them up as typical examples of that group without any rational basis for doing so. You're going to use irrational fear and emotionality to warn everyone that they're not like us. You're going to draw up complicated arguments that draw on events that happened at the far reaches of history, and make it seem like they're about to happen again. But the real reason is: you don't like foreigners, and you never did. If 9/11 was done by the Japanese, you'd be advancing a similar set of arguments against them today.
  18. Argus, Ok, so your argument is that the Muslim Holy book is more violent than the other holy books and that's why they're more violent. I've never heard that before. It kind of makes me wonder if Rap music causes more violence than Heavy Metal music. Or maybe it's just violent people. Also, I don't need to examine WHY people are overly emotional and territorial. I know that some people like Scott become hysterical over things that confuse them, and that's enough. I don't need to know why Scott didn't turn out to be a hippy. Maybe a hippy kicked sand in his face at some point, how could I know ? There's nothing dumb about how he feels, it's just ... emotionality pure and simple.
  19. I hear many warnings along the lines of Borg's... Having known Muslims, I think it's more likely that they will be brainwashed by the Canadian way of life than vice versa. Also, having wasted countless minutes arguing with Scott, I can save the rest of you some time: His argument is entirely circular. Muslims are prone to evil acts because of their religion, he says, and the root cause is their holy book. If you point to other holy books that contain similar exhortations to evil, then the argument comes that those books don't cause violence because their adherents don't commit evil acts. Basically, he doesn't like them, and that's what is behind all of his arguments. There's nothing reasoned, or thought out about it. He wants to be able to call them racial epithets whenever he likes, because he hates them, period.
  20. Scott - nobody has to shout that you're a racist or get all 'emotional' about it. We can just state it. If you think there's something bad about being a racist, then so be it. I understand that there are racists in the world, and it doesn't upset me. If you can explain why you're not a racist, then go ahead. Otherwise, let's all move forward with the general understanding that you believe some races (religions, perhaps, or nationalities - you tell us) are inferior and not get in a kerfuffle over it. The next step will be for you to accept that racism is not based on reason, but on the emotionality that you despise...
  21. I will reiterate that ScottSA is an intelligent and informed poster, but unlike other posters of this ilk, he will withhold logic and reason at a certain point in the argument. You will see it over and over - the thread goes cold at a certain point. For example: somebody points out that one can't base analysis of crime rates by religion on hunting-and-pecking through Google news and posting crimes committed by anyone with a Muslim name. I don't wish to point these things out, but I feel I need to - in order to explain to anyone who might engage in discussion with Scott. He's a special case, and you need to understand this about his arguments. None of this is meant as a personal comment, but as an aide to discussion.
  22. Morris, I'm not sure what you mean here. I don't have my own board, i.e. one that I own. I have a few that I have lent my expertise to, now and again, only to get them on their feet. Thanks, mh
  23. JB, I would say the idea of attributing 'fault' to large groups is a mistake in any case. Individuals are responsible for their actions, but I'm not responsible for the actions of other Canadians, males, Catholics or humans.
  24. Scott, What I find with your posts is - it's not what you say, but what you don't say that tells me what you're thinking. For instance, you're all dressed up in a cap and gown on this board, and less willing to refer to brown people or use the n-word. That tells me that you're trying to come across as more scholarly, or maybe even more civilized. As to your philosophy, it's hard to find posts where you post exactly what YOU think. It's easy to find posts where you quote some lecture-or-other by an extreme right-winger lecturing in Belgium. But even those speeches tend to be criticisms of immigration policies or leftists, without saying exactly what the speaker is FOR. We know that you want to deport Muslims, and from your recent posts you seem to know about Hitler, but it's hard to fill in some of the gaps. We know that you're very smart, yet you insist on posting news stories describing individual Muslim crimes, and seem to pretend that you don't understand why that's an invalid way to draw conclusions about anything. So, I remember you having some theory about how Canadian society will finally come apart, and that had a racial aspect to it. I spoke about the fact that I worked in a corporate environment that is multi racial, and that the people there were more like each other than they were like others of the same race. Kind of like the computer workers that I work with that are black, Muslim and Jewish are more like each other than they are like people from other countries who share their background. This is the point that you seized on. Does that sound familiar ? How about this: "Tomorrow if the RCMP and all the police forces were to be instantly disbanded, all things being equal, Canada would damned soon regress centuries in its behavioural norms." What IS your theory ? How will Canadian society inevitably fall apart ?
  25. Scott, of course I've never said anything even close to that. I'm still looking for your quote on the other thread.
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